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Owlofcreamcheese posted:AR and VR seem like things people very obviously want and companies will keep making until someone actually makes it well. There isn't really any chance it's ever going to be dropped as a concept no matter how many times any specific company fails. Pretty much everyone wants AR and VR if it worked well enough. right, just like autonomous cars
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Apr 9, 2018 18:48
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exploded mummy posted:right, just like autonomous cars Oh, now you've gone and done it.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:AR and VR seem like things people very obviously want and companies will keep making until someone actually makes it well. There isn't really any chance it's ever going to be dropped as a concept no matter how many times any specific company fails. Pretty much everyone wants AR and VR if it worked well enough. And I'm not trying to be down on this tech entirely, because I fully admit to being a true believer in augmented reality. If it can get fast and immersive enough, it opens up a ton of potential for physical adventure games. It could reinvigorate the paintball industry (or lasertag or something) by turning fairly mundane landscapes into environments straight out of Battlefront. Crumbling landmarks of ancient civilizations could give visitors a sense of what those places looked like in their heyday. Like VR, I think it'll remain fairly niche, but those particular niches will be drat impressive.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:05
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VideoGameVet posted:Just do Counter Strike in VR and do it WELL. The other thing is that total userbase numbers for VR don't justify a large dedicated investment. The big budget titles for VR are games that are also non-VR and that's where they got most of their money.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:07
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Baronash posted:And I'm not trying to be down on this tech entirely, because I fully admit to being a true believer in augmented reality. If it can get fast and immersive enough, it opens up a ton of potential for physical adventure games. It could reinvigorate the paintball industry (or lasertag or something) by turning fairly mundane landscapes into environments straight out of Battlefront. Crumbling landmarks of ancient civilizations could give visitors a sense of what those places looked like in their heyday. Like VR, I think it'll remain fairly niche, but those particular niches will be drat impressive. thats why i think a slower adventure game as a period piece would work well, you could leverage VR to really trick out some fabulous interior and let players just soak in the decor, costumes etc. in a way that is less impressive with less immersion and it would be a lot more approachable than an action game downton abbey, at its core, is a show about fabulous hats - much like team fortress 2
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Apr 9, 2018 19:08
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VR is already changing the way small films are shown and shared. I was at a film festival not too long ago and they had one room with 20+ VR films set up in it and you could go from one to another and experience these fully VR experiences one after another. Some needed full motion spaces and some just used head movements but it was already clearly a game changer.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:13
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VR isn't going to take off as a home gaming thing until companies accept that not everyone has the money to devote to a large empty room for a full VR rig, or the physical ability to twat about in that room. Until then they're going to remain as Privilege Goggles with a higher than acceptable chance of making the user feel physically ill.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:19
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Baronash posted:This article is basically survivorshipbias.txt. VR could absolutely have some previously unforeseen use cases, but I think it's telling that the reaction hasn't been "everyone will want this for all of their games" and instead has been "well, it's nice for flight simulators and certain games that really work to incorporate it." There is a strong possibility that VR remains a fairly niche market. I agree with your assessment. Unless we see some groundbreaking titles, it doesn't become mainstream. I have more hope for AR as an eventual replacement for the smart phone (via gesture and speech recognition).
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Apr 9, 2018 19:22
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Cicero posted:It doesn't work well because it turns out fast movement in VR tends to make people nauseous, unless you have a frame of reference thing like a cockpit. There's some VR + Eyetracking stuff that may have solved the problem. Note: I've been told this by people I respect, but I have yet to see the demo. I was working at a company creating VR documentaries when the funding for such things died soon after E3 2017. Not doing VR now.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:24
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:VR isn't going to take off as a home gaming thing until companies accept that not everyone has the money to devote to a large empty room for a full VR rig, or the physical ability to twat about in that room. Until then they're going to remain as Privilege Goggles with a higher than acceptable chance of making the user feel physically ill. playstation VR tracks in an area about the size of a DDR mat at most and plenty of games are played seated. People generally see that as a limitation.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:25
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boner confessor posted:thats why i think a slower adventure game as a period piece would work well, you could leverage VR to really trick out some fabulous interior and let players just soak in the decor, costumes etc. in a way that is less impressive with less immersion and it would be a lot more approachable than an action game Want some rye? (Yes, I asked for the rights to do this and NO, I didn't get a reply).
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Apr 9, 2018 19:25
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Cicero posted:It doesn't work well because it turns out fast movement in VR tends to make people nauseous, unless you have a frame of reference thing like a cockpit. Descent made people motion sick in 1995 without VR and had a frame of reference like a cockpit.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:27
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Star Man posted:Descent made people motion sick in 1995 without VR and had a frame of reference like a cockpit. the problem with descent was that they were showing off their full 3d engine by making a three-axis first person shooter, aka a spaceflight sim, but crammed it into a tiny enclosed space which was confusing and disorienting
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Apr 9, 2018 19:29
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boner confessor posted:the problem with descent was that they were showing off their full 3d engine by making a three-axis first person shooter, aka a spaceflight sim, but crammed it into a tiny enclosed space which was confusing and disorienting And I loving loved it.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:31
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Also VR and AR are vastly different design spaces even if there is an imagined future where they are merged. We've barely begun to tap the possibilities of touch screens and mobile devices for gaming or productivity so I would expect it to take time before we actually figure out how design most effectively for VR and AR.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:42
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There's a distinct possibility 20 years from now complaining about VR sickness will feel as quaint as people who complain about motion sickness from flatscreen first person shooters or watching a movie. Empirically, when done repeatedly most people's brains seem to get used to it.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:44
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Trabisnikof posted:Also VR and AR are vastly different design spaces even if there is an imagined future where they are merged. We need someone to develop non-dorky in-glasses screens in order for AR to spread outside of industrial contexts.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:45
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a foolish pianist posted:We need someone to develop non-dorky in-glasses screens in order for AR to spread outside of industrial contexts. What? Don't think this looks hip?  
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Apr 9, 2018 19:49
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I still get motion sickness from first person games after 20 years of playing them.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:51
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Arglebargle III posted:I still get motion sickness from first person games after 20 years of playing them. seems to not have limited the FPS market.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:seems to not have limited the FPS market. Depends on the scale we're discussing. People are claiming VR/AR will be ubiquitous and usable for gaming, productivity, social interaction, etc. FPS gaming occupies a much smaller niche than that. If VR/AR is limited to the same audience as FPS gaming that will be a significant limitation to the expected growth of VR/AR use.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:40
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Trabisnikof posted:
Looks like overwatch has outsold like 1984 or the great gatsy. it seems like FPS are doing fine.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Looks like overwatch has outsold like 1984 or the great gatsy. it seems like FPS are doing fine. Way to miss the point as usual.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Looks like overwatch has outsold like 1984 or the great gatsy. it seems like FPS are doing fine. overwatch specifically caters to "non-traditional" fps gamers, especially women we can't really gauge how big the fps market would be since the fps market is generally highly focused on a profitable niche of predominantly male, military fetishist gamers
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Apr 9, 2018 20:53
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Call of Duty is like the biggest franchise in gaming. You may as well claim that soccer is a niche sport.
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Apr 9, 2018 20:56
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:seems to not have limited the FPS market. ShadowHawk posted:Empirically, when done repeatedly most people's brains seem to get used to it. VR motion sickness is orders of magnitude worse. There's a dearth of research, questions like "how many ms of eye-to-eye lag is tolerable" that don't apply to traditional 2d displays just don't have answers. Afaik, the gendered differences in VR motion sickness are still open questions as well.
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Apr 9, 2018 21:41
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a foolish pianist posted:Call of Duty is like the biggest franchise in gaming. it is among the top in fps gaming, but the argument is if motion sickness has somehow constrained the size of the fps game market. i can think of bigger constraints on this market, namely that the genre is somewhat bound to catering to a certain demographic, and could perhaps find a larger audience if it wasn't so focused on grimdark military jingoism. overwatch is the counterexample here, as the art direction and character design is specifically varied to reach a broader audience - specifically women. overwatch is notable for having a much larger female playerbase than any other fps call of duty's sales have collectively been declining (it's a bit stale) and the best selling title was modern warfare 3, which sold 26.5 million units since its release in 2011 overwatch has sold 35 million units and counting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games minecraft, of course, utterly demolishes both of them in sales
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Apr 9, 2018 21:48
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boner confessor posted:it is among the top in fps gaming, but the argument is if motion sickness has somehow constrained the size of the fps game market. i can think of bigger constraints on this market, namely that the genre is somewhat bound to catering to a certain demographic, and could perhaps find a larger audience if it wasn't so focused on grimdark military jingoism. overwatch is the counterexample here, as the art direction and character design is specifically varied to reach a broader audience - specifically women. overwatch is notable for having a much larger female playerbase than any other fps GTA-V just broke $6B in sales. By far the most successful entertainment product in history. https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/gta-v-has-apparently-made-more-money-than-any-movie-in-history-1834776 GTA V has made around $6 billion since its release in September 2013. This means GTA V has made more money than any book, film, record or video game ever released, and shows no signs of stopping. (And I was laughed at in 1990 when I suggested at Activision we do a game titled "Drive By")
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Apr 9, 2018 21:55
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VideoGameVet posted:Want some rye? I used to play that game with my Dad, I don't think we ever got very far at all. That drat vulture 
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Apr 9, 2018 22:03
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VideoGameVet posted:GTA-V just broke $6B in sales. By far the most successful entertainment product in history. otoh in gtaV you can roleplay as a retired dad who goes shoe shopping and does yoga on a lazy sunday, so
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Apr 9, 2018 22:08
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Mozi posted:I used to play that game with my Dad, I don't think we ever got very far at all. We made the game totally unfair ON PURPOSE. Thousands of YouTube videos bitching about it 25 years later. My legacy.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:09
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VideoGameVet posted:GTA-V just broke $6B in sales. By far the most successful entertainment product in history. That $6B figure either includes shark cards or assumes everyone who bought GTA paid at least $66 for it. It is based on an analyst quote and not a statement from the company. If it includes shark cards, then any number of other physical gambling games have it beat in total all-time profits.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:21
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boner confessor posted:overwatch specifically caters to "non-traditional" fps gamers, especially women
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Apr 9, 2018 22:40
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It could end up like 3D TVs. Works fine but a lot of content won't benefit from it and most users will be fine just doing without.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:42
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Cicero posted:Eh not really. I mean character-wise it's pretty diverse and that's certainly cool, but in terms of gameplay it's like streamlined Team Fortress with a few MOBA elements. yeah but i'm talking about art direction and character design here - definitely taking inspiration from team fortress 2 and how it's a bit "cartoony", but also overwatch has some whimsy as well, not so serious and tactical like call of duty, pubg, counterstrike etc. like breaking from the whole military inspired thing helps, not focusing on guns so much as just, weapons, and so on like lots of people enjoy the gameplay of lets run around and shoot at each other bang bang but without the whole, splashing tangos element of it Cicero posted:Overwatch doesn't appeal to non-traditional FPS gamers any more than Warcraft 3 appealed to non-traditional RTS gamers or WoW appealed to non-traditional MMO gamers. i think blizzard recognized the value in trying to appeal directly to women, they're definitely underserved in the 'serious' game category. iirc overwatch has 16% female playerbase which is record breaking Cicero posted:In fact when it came out, part of its "story" was that it was somewhat of a return to "90's shooters" because it doesn't have killstreaks or progression or that other modern nonsense. also blizzard does well to play loose with the 'story' and directly engage with fanart and fan canon. pretty much coopting tumblr as a marketing tactic. it helps to not treat your story as if it is some sacred and completely serious thing - the dva emote where she plays games and pigs out on junk food is directly a response to fan portrayals of her character as a horrible gamer stereotype
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Apr 9, 2018 23:03
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boner confessor posted:overwatch specifically caters to "non-traditional" fps gamers, especially women Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
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Apr 9, 2018 23:14
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16% female user base might be record breaking for the FPS genre, but there are plenty of genres that are overwhelmingly female
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Apr 9, 2018 23:15
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Arglebargle III posted:16% female user base might be record breaking for the FPS genre, but there are plenty of genres that are overwhelmingly female oh for sure - the sims off the top of my head
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Apr 9, 2018 23:16
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Ynglaur posted:Perhaps a bit semantic, but a right given is a right that be taken. Say rather that law makers should be held accountable for respecting our inherent rights. its a bit abstract to say anything involving tech has inherent rights attached to it. The right to privacy is not afforded to us automatically, its why we have amendments defining search and seizure. I'm sure a more lawyerly goon can comment on such.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:42
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BlueBlazer posted:its a bit abstract to say anything involving tech has inherent rights attached to it. The right to privacy is not afforded to us automatically, its why we have amendments defining search and seizure. I'm sure a more lawyerly goon can comment on such. The bill of rights is supposed to be a non-exhaustive list of inherent rights, not a grant from the government. That's why the Ninth Amendment is there.
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Apr 10, 2018 01:00
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