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new vegas was a much better implementation of those ideas than van buren looked like it was going to be. the NMA crowd bitched a ton about all the super-science stuff in the bethesda fallouts, but van buren was gonna have all that in spades. im having trouble picking a side in fallout 4, as usual.
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Apr 13, 2018 01:01
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Wolfsheim posted:I don't disagree with any of this, but most of it could be said of the first two Fallout games as well. If W2 had come out, like, 3-5 years after F2 it would probably be considered another darling of the isometric era, but 15+ years later people are gonna be a lot less forgiving of a game that doesn't have basic QoL improvements like not making entirely opaque trap skills that will screw your character over that won't be realized for several hours forcing you to restart. the problem is that people attribute the dumb poo poo of the era to being part and parcel of the good poo poo. like i'd love an isometric turn based fallout game, just have it updated to modern conventions so it's at least as good as like xcom or poo poo, not to mention all the cool poo poo that's going down with tactical games in boardgaming. (someone please steal malifaux's poker deck resolution system so its not stuck in dumbass steampunk)
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Apr 13, 2018 02:36
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juggalo baby coffin posted:new vegas was a much better implementation of those ideas than van buren looked like it was going to be. the NMA crowd bitched a ton about all the super-science stuff in the bethesda fallouts, but van buren was gonna have all that in spades. Just go Railroad, Deacon is cool.
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Apr 13, 2018 03:11
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Just go Railroad, Deacon is cool. And also the mission against the Brotherhood feels really fun to play with this faction
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Apr 13, 2018 03:20
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Deacon killed a cat. Well, at least the Institute will be useful as a power base.
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Apr 13, 2018 03:36
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dont be mean to me posted:Deacon killed a cat. He didn't mean to 
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Apr 13, 2018 05:08
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The concept of the institute is cooler than anything in new Vegas, even the buildup to them is great. They're slowly replacing key figures to control the Commonwealth from the shadows for some inscrutable means, incredible super techonology that means they can strike at any time and any place, it's rad. The loving execution is...so...loving bad. The second you step foot in the institute all the gravitas is shattered and your left wondering how these chuckle fucks have even remembered how to keep breathing.
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Apr 13, 2018 05:27
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Wasteland 2 is an extremely faithful sequel to an 80s RPG in every way. Which is part of the problem, there are a lot of 80s RPGs which are dogshit in how the game mechanics work and the difficulty is balanced, complete with trap skill options that literally do nothing. Don't play it. If it were a modernization of Wasteland but for the modern day, it'd be great but it instead feels like it came out one year after the original Wasteland but with the graphical capabilities of Neverwinter Nights 1 instead.
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Apr 13, 2018 06:20
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Gaius Marius posted:The concept of the institute is cooler than anything in new Vegas, even the buildup to them is great. They're slowly replacing key figures to control the Commonwealth from the shadows for some inscrutable means, incredible super techonology that means they can strike at any time and any place, it's rad. The loving execution is...so...loving bad. The second you step foot in the institute all the gravitas is shattered and your left wondering how these chuckle fucks have even remembered how to keep breathing. i mean that is accurate to real life if you have ever met any scientists, especially university scientists
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Apr 13, 2018 08:57
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I remember people being really mad that someone in the Institute had made synth gorillas. Out of all the stupid poo poo they do you're gonna choose to focus on the guy making robot monkeys as being the big writing problem?
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Apr 13, 2018 09:00
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Just go Railroad, Deacon is cool. Don't go railroad there's a late game bug that's never been patched that can make winning as the railroad impossible making the whole playthrough a waste of time. Plus their base is close to down town so you have to put up with the infinite load time bug that had also never been patched out. Zeniel fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 09:30
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Internet Kraken posted:I remember people being really mad that someone in the Institute had made synth gorillas. Out of all the stupid poo poo they do you're gonna choose to focus on the guy making robot monkeys as being the big writing problem? Really if they wanted to properly portray a bunch of disconnected turbonerds it should have been something incredibly stupid. "We made synthetic dolphins with fairy wings! They can play chess but we designed them specifically to be really, really bad at it." "...why?"
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Apr 13, 2018 10:14
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I sided with the Minutemen, then hosed up the BoS in the postgame.
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Apr 13, 2018 11:43
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Wasteland 2 is an extremely faithful sequel to an 80s RPG in every way. Which is part of the problem, there are a lot of 80s RPGs which are dogshit in how the game mechanics work and the difficulty is balanced, complete with trap skill options that literally do nothing. I don't even think it's the fidelity that's at fault. Say what you want about the original Wasteland, but it doesn't force you to spend a ton of time waiting until skill checks are completed, has a fairly brisk combat system, and its story doesn't drag on forever either. In quite a few respects, WL2 is worse than the game which came out twenty years earlier (though to be fair, in many other ways it's a massive improvement).
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Apr 13, 2018 13:55
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dead comedy forums posted:Problem is that a lot of these game designers fall into nostalgia traps without realizing how a lot of conventions back then were loving idiotic to begin with, but were necessary for technical reasons and/or a large majority of programmers were unfamiliar with what we could call "game design theory" (in a broad sense), so they needed familiar frameworks to build from (i.e. D&D), which itself had a lot of vices, so yeah, remaking fallout 1 today while aiming to be true to the original would be stupendously bad. the main design points on a FO1 remake should be 1. No "move the gently caress out of the way" button 2. Friendly fire and companions that love burst weapons
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Apr 13, 2018 14:05
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If bethesda just wants to do wacky stuff in Fallout, they should really just go full-hog and have a melee-supporting ally whos (blank-loaded) SMG burst can launch you towards enemies.
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Apr 13, 2018 14:11
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Ian just wants to share his bullets,right into your face/back/other companion. But those moments when your companion fucks up an enemy or multiple enemies are just so satisfying,same with a good grenade throw.The old fallouts have the best death animations ever,nooone can top them.
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Apr 13, 2018 15:53
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Agreed on the death animations on Fallout 1&2. My favorites are the ones caused by plasma weapon, where the flesh melts off an enemy's bones while digusting yet satisfying sounds play. Fallout 3/NV/4's gore is fun in that Ludicrous Gibs way but they're not as visceral as 1&2.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:08
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new vegas modchat: as of the latest major Win10 update, stutter remover is doing pretty badly as the OS has new memory management features that do not play nice with it, just to let you guys know. Apparently you can wrangle the settings a bit, but the documentation is kinda poor and I wish it had more elaboration in possible conflicts (like if you are using ENB and capping FPS there should you fiddle with NVSR too?)
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Apr 13, 2018 16:18
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Deacon killed a cat, what?
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Apr 13, 2018 16:19
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dead comedy forums posted:new vegas modchat: as of the latest major Win10 update, stutter remover is doing pretty badly as the OS has new memory management features that do not play nice with it, just to let you guys know. Apparently you can wrangle the settings a bit, but the documentation is kinda poor and I wish it had more elaboration in possible conflicts (like if you are using ENB and capping FPS there should you fiddle with NVSR too?) One of the top posts for that mod on the nexus has .ini settings that make the stutter remover work fine again.
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Apr 13, 2018 16:52
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CFox posted:One of the top posts for that mod on the nexus has .ini settings that make the stutter remover work fine again. Read the description, but missed that. Many thanks!
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Apr 13, 2018 18:03
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Gaius Marius posted:The concept of the institute is cooler than anything in new Vegas, even the buildup to them is great. They're slowly replacing key figures to control the Commonwealth from the shadows for some inscrutable means, incredible super techonology that means they can strike at any time and any place, it's rad. The loving execution is...so...loving bad. The second you step foot in the institute all the gravitas is shattered and your left wondering how these chuckle fucks have even remembered how to keep breathing. Everything the institute does is so pointless and incompetent: They replace the Mayor of Diamond City, and then the only major policy change they have him make is kicking out all the ghouls. Why? What the Hell good does that do them? But at least replacing a major political figure makes sense on some level, what doesn't make sense are all the other hundreds of people they replace with synths, seemingly at random. They've replaced so many people with synths that they can't keep track of them all, and even if they could they don't seem all that interested in actually doing anything with these robo-clone. Take Paladin Danse for example, turns out he's a synth! Is the institute going to use this to their advantage in anyway? No? Do they even remember that they have a Synth plant in the Brotherhood? Probably not! They're just so bad at doing whatever stupid thing it is they're trying to do, which I guess is control everything in the dumbest most ineffective way possible. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Apr 14, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 19:54
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I thought most of the synth replacement was done by the previous administration of the Institute and that the new leaders didn't want anything to do with it? Like I could of sworn their only current goal was rounding up all the synths wandering around the world, even if they were planted by them originally and didn't even escape. I might be misremembering or making that up completely though.
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Apr 13, 2018 19:56
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Take Paladin Danse for example, turns out he's a synth! Is the institute going to use this to their advantage in anyway? No? Do they even remember that they have a Synth plant in the Brotherhood? Probably not! Technically speaking guys like Danse could be Railroad related. Smuggled him out of the commonwealth, joined the Brotherhood on his own. Zimmer in FO3 clearly shows that synths made it there Not that I'm trying to justify the Institutes writing, it's bad, but at least some of those "do they even know?" type questions could be easily aimed at the Railroad's meddling
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Apr 13, 2018 20:03
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Azhais posted:Technically speaking guys like Danse could be Railroad related. Smuggled him out of the commonwealth, joined the Brotherhood on his own. Zimmer in FO3 clearly shows that synths made it there See, that would have made sense and could have been interesting. Too bad it's not in the game. Internet Kraken posted:I thought most of the synth replacement was done by the previous administration of the Institute and that the new leaders didn't want anything to do with it? Like I could of sworn their only current goal was rounding up all the synths wandering around the world, even if they were planted by them originally and didn't even escape. You're misremembering. The Art vs. Art random event you can get (the one where you can encounter a guy holding his own synth clone at gunpoint) directly states that the institute is still replacing people with synths. Also, the pervious administration was decades ago, father's been running that poo poo for a long while and in that time a lot of people have gotten synth snatched.
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Apr 13, 2018 20:27
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The Art encounter also really muddles the whole Synth Bigotry angle when the synth replacements are directly murdering their originals.
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Apr 13, 2018 20:35
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Neurolimal posted:The Art encounter also really muddles the whole Synth Bigotry angle when the synth replacements are directly murdering their originals. B-b-but the Railroad. Slavery is Wrong.  Speaking of, their whole deal is that they wipe synths' minds so the can start next lives. So really, they don't care about the fundamental personhood of the synth, just whether their bodies are enslaved.
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Apr 13, 2018 21:07
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:See, that would have made sense and could have been interesting. It's also contradicted by that scribe's logs in the police station where you first meet Dance. Haylen? She wrote in her medical logs that he's just suddenly started getting headaches and other weird symptoms, which is referenced somewhere else as being a side-effect of being a new synth, iirc. e: quote:Medical File DN-407P Possibly when he was switched out. eating only apples fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 13, 2018 |
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Apr 13, 2018 21:21
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Don't they view the whole world as a sort of petri dish and they're just doing poo poo to observe the results? Or am I misremembering and retroactively trying to apply sense where none exists?
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Apr 14, 2018 02:35
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Keeshhound posted:B-b-but the Railroad. Slavery is Wrong. Also, the process they use to wipe the synths memories is extremely dangerous and often leaves the synths permanently brain dead and comatose. The Railroad are super shady for reasons that don't totally make sense, and yet this is never addressed in game in any meaningful way. Deacon is still cool though. eating only apples posted:It's also contradicted by that scribe's logs in the police station where you first meet Dance. Haylen? She wrote in her medical logs that he's just suddenly started getting headaches and other weird symptoms, which is referenced somewhere else as being a side-effect of being a new synth, iirc. Okay, so sometimes synths know they're synths (like the mayor of Diamond City and Art) and sometimes they don't....but why? What's the point of creating a Brotherhood Synth as a spy if he doesn't know he's a spy and thus can't actually give you any information and still continues to actively hate and fight against the institute? I guess the answer is probably a combination of "Don't think too hard about it" and "we ran out of time so most of that plot-line got cut". counterfeitsaint posted:Don't they view the whole world as a sort of petri dish and they're just doing poo poo to observe the results? Or am I misremembering and retroactively trying to apply sense where none exists? Unless I missed something I think you might just be accidentally making up a better story. What you've come up with would be interesting and I wish that's the direction the game had taken, it would basically turn the Institute into the Think Tank from Old World Blues: a bunch of amoral and inhuman childish sociopaths preforming cruel experiments for vaguely scientific reasons. However, it really doesn't seem like that's what Fallout 4 was going for: The institute has goals and plans beyond "for science!" it's just super bad at accomplishing them despite having God like technology because ?????
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Apr 14, 2018 03:12
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It's a huge shame about the cut storyline too, because it sounded a good deal more interesting than a number of lines that made the cut, and with it conspicuously missing you're left with a strangely antagonistic leader (who was obviously supposed to get replaced by Danse) and the brotherhood taking bizarre amoral stances (because there was supposed to be a Danse-based alternative).
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Apr 14, 2018 05:08
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So i'm doing far harbor, and thinking of going all in with the children of atom. the far harbor people are just such assholes, they executed that poor missionary and apparently before that some more children of atom. add to that that the children were nicer to the synths, and the fact that their crazy religion seems to work to at least some extent with the visions and all, and I'm thinking of just taking on my role as the favoured child of atom. i figured the choice was gonna be easy from the premise, wipe out the crazies and help out the normies.
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Apr 14, 2018 20:13
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juggalo baby coffin posted:So i'm doing far harbor, and thinking of going all in with the children of atom. I know everyone thinks the writing in Far Harbor is good, and I don't disagree, but I ended up abandoning the island towards the end. I was so disappointed in DiMa, and I ended up deciding that all these chucklefucks deserved each other and just bailed rather than side with anybody.
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Apr 14, 2018 20:30
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counterfeitsaint posted:I know everyone thinks the writing in Far Harbor is good ... Uuuuhhhhhhhhhhh
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Apr 14, 2018 21:58
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If Far Harbour was the baseline for Fallout 4's writing the game's plot might have been alright. Doesn't solve all the other issues with the game and Far Harbour's plot does have a lot of its own issues, but I'll take occasional plotholes over utterly incompetent writing any day.
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Apr 14, 2018 22:02
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I do like any excuse to hang with Nick Valentine, possibly the only worthwhile character in the whole game
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Apr 14, 2018 22:28
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old sailor guy in far harbor is also ok
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Apr 14, 2018 22:34
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we even got detective side-quests for him, sure they were kinda lovely but I liked the intention behind it I don't know why Bethesda didn't expand the idea with others why couldn't we get journalism quests with Piper why couldn't we get combat arena quests/content with Cait why couldn't we get mercenary contracts with MacCready
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Apr 14, 2018 22:38
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Far Harbor is weird because it really gives off a "escaped slaves are just as bad as their previous masters" kind of vibe. Which is sad because whether purposeful or not, The Railroad in the base game is sort of a meta-commentary on how awful the white saviour complex can be. And that ruled
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Apr 14, 2018 22:43
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