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Poniard
Apr 3, 2011



I was told to show up at 8 and noone was here and my boss isn't answering his phone so uh

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Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Poniard posted:

I was told to show up at 8 and noone was here and my boss isn't answering his phone so uh

they may have forgotten

The Leck
Feb 27, 2001

So I've been interviewing with a couple of companies, and they're going pretty well. I'm worried that if/when the time comes for salary talk, I'll end up underpaid because I've been a bit underpaid in the past and don't really know what to ask for. Are there any reasonable guides out there? I've heard some iffy things about the Robert Half salary report and Glassdoor numbers, but I'm not sure what else there is to go on.

I HAVE GOUT
Nov 23, 2017

Sapozhnik posted:

under capitalism we are all owned

Then move to china or north korea, commie

toiletbrush
May 17, 2010

The Leck posted:

So I've been interviewing with a couple of companies, and they're going pretty well. I'm worried that if/when the time comes for salary talk, I'll end up underpaid because I've been a bit underpaid in the past and don't really know what to ask for. Are there any reasonable guides out there? I've heard some iffy things about the Robert Half salary report and Glassdoor numbers, but I'm not sure what else there is to go on.
Are you looking to change role? Like mid-level to -> senior or something? I'm sure you've got a figure in mind but yeah it's really hard being assertive about it because you're not usually arguing from a position of authority.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

how do i interview people

Bloody posted:

i have to interview a person for an open position on my team. ive never interviewed anybody before, but i have been interviewed many times. obviously, nobody has bothered to train me or even provide a brief overview of how we do interviews at my company. how do i interview a person? i get a half hour one-on-one with them, which seems uselessly brief.

should i make them fizz buzz

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

Bloody posted:

how do i interview people

does your company have an HR department cause every interview I've been to had someone from HR sitting in presumably to make sure the interviewer didn't break any laws

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

indigi posted:

does your company have an HR department cause every interview I've been to had someone from HR sitting in presumably to make sure the interviewer didn't break any laws

I’ve done a lot of interviewing at big and small places and never seen a HR person during. the closest thing is probably the receptionist i check in with?

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

always be interviewing

AWWNAW
Dec 30, 2008

Art of the Interview

Bored Online
May 25, 2009

We don't need Rome telling us what to do.
Frank Herbert’s Interview saga

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

AWWNAW posted:

always be interviewing

while this is probably wise professionally, consider this: interviewing loving blows rear end and i hate it

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
really looking forward to my upcoming stretch of funemployment but i know exactly how this poo poo is going to go down

expectation: "i'm free! ok now that i have all of the free hours in the day i'm going to exercise so much and i'm going to learn and i'm going to try that side project i've been putting off and..."
reality: *waking up at noon* "ugh i'm so bored"

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


The Leck posted:

So I've been interviewing with a couple of companies, and they're going pretty well. I'm worried that if/when the time comes for salary talk, I'll end up underpaid because I've been a bit underpaid in the past and don't really know what to ask for. Are there any reasonable guides out there? I've heard some iffy things about the Robert Half salary report and Glassdoor numbers, but I'm not sure what else there is to go on.

Look at Glassdoor and ask for the max (or more) reported for the role. They're skewed to the left for sure, but you should be able to get at least the max reported if you're truly the right person for the job.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Sapozhnik posted:

really looking forward to my upcoming stretch of funemployment but i know exactly how this poo poo is going to go down

expectation: "i'm free! ok now that i have all of the free hours in the day i'm going to exercise so much and i'm going to learn and i'm going to try that side project i've been putting off and..."
reality: *waking up at noon* "ugh i'm so bored"

*navigates to indeed.com*

*regrets navigating to indeed.com*

Shaman Linavi
Apr 3, 2012

qhat posted:

*navigates to indeed.com*

*regrets navigating to indeed.com*

hell, same.

in other news a lot of the fed jobs i applied for spammed my email today to let me know i was referred to the hiring manager so yay? one of them said "youll probably be contacted some time next month so just chill"

The Leck
Feb 27, 2001

toiletbrush posted:

Are you looking to change role? Like mid-level to -> senior or something? I'm sure you've got a figure in mind but yeah it's really hard being assertive about it because you're not usually arguing from a position of authority.
probably not really changing levels, but changing cities. i'm also going on the fact that my manager mentioned that i was kind of underpaid at my last performance review (and isn't helping me to do anything about it, hence my interviewing elsewhere).

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


Bloody posted:

how do i interview people

i interviewed some dudes recently and just ask em some bullshit about your job. im an android dev so I drew a lovely little app screen and had the guy tell me how he'd make it and populate it w data. if they ansower in some way that isn't dumb as hell, congrats

Pendragon
Jun 18, 2003

HE'S WATCHING YOU

Bloody posted:

how do i interview people

take some time to come up with a list of skills/characteristics you're looking for, everything from hard skills like languages and frameworks to soft skills like customer interaction. after writing the list, come up with questions that can determine how well a candidate knows that skill. also include time to talk about your company, the position, and to let the candidate talk about him/herself (themself?) and their history.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Bloody posted:

how do i interview people

Sit across from them, have a conversation with them to get a feel for whether they have a basic technical competence (stuff like: how would you do X in 30,000 foot terms) then ask yourself: "Do I want to work with this person"?

obstipator
Nov 8, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
tell ur manager u dont know how to interview. otherwise ur gonna end up hiring them regardless of if they suck or not. u might be stuck with a poo poo coworker

HoboMan
Nov 4, 2010

ok so there are the interview questions in the op, but what should i ask in a phone screen? i feel like i should have at least one question for them when they ask me if i have any

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

HoboMan posted:

ok so there are the interview questions in the op, but what should i ask in a phone screen? i feel like i should have at least one question for them when they ask me if i have any

HR screen or Department screen?

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

HoboMan posted:

ok so there are the interview questions in the op, but what should i ask in a phone screen? i feel like i should have at least one question for them when they ask me if i have any

initial phone screen with hr/recruiter? don’t bother, you won’t get any useful answers

phone screen with engineer or hiring manager? go ahead and just pick a couple from the op. “describe the day to day role” and “what would success look like in the first 30/90 days” are good because those are pretty high level and are pretty okay at revealing red flags. you can ask more in depth later if you want. I have asked everything except the pto question in an phone interview before

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


TerminalRaptor posted:

Depends, is your organization stable? If so, and you have clear visibility with regards to how the role is supposed to operate in your department, and you want to do it, you'll probably enjoy it immensely. Does your org have some sort of intermediary role, like a team lead? That's a great way to see if its something you want to do more of. Even if they don't your manager might be able to stick you in some intermediary role to test the waters if you ask. Being strong at 'everything' doesn't necessarily make you a good candidate for management though. Having a good understanding of development and how the processes work can make the different between a good manager and a great manager, but only if you have the ability to manage people; it's why it's called manager. Be prepared to have to deal with a lot of soft skill issues: interpersonal conflicts, helping team members grow their skills, negotiating with fellow managers and stakeholders for timelines and resources.

Honestly I'm going on three years in a manager role after spending several as a team lead, and the past two years have been hell, but that's do to a variety of issues in our department. We'd been winging it for a long time with regards to project management and around the time our previous cto retired various middle management people in our department decided we needed to be doing more project management responsibilities. Instead of hiring for the necessary roles though, they decided to dump all of it on the existing managers. So I found myself doing PO work, scrummaster work, dev work, and people manager work all at the same time. This happened right when I became manager, and made it confusing as hell as to what my role was supposed to be. Thankfully this only lasted for about a year before our cto's replacement decided to impose order on our department and enforce an actual agile process with dedicated po's/scrum masters etc. Unfortunately they trusted the people running the department to implement this and didn't realize just how pants on head retarded they were with regards to actually doing their job titles (previous cto was a dictator), so now we're a year into a reorg that was supposed to be done by last Christmas. This means I've still been doing a half-dozen different roles in the meantime, while dealing with a team that has been hurt and frustrated because they don't know what's going on with their roles, confusing vision statements, repeated false starts, lacking necessary people resources, and not knowing what they're going to be working on. This is a cliff's notes version of the mess, and it doesn't even touch on some of other stuff like a problem report I had to deal with right after becoming manager and a superior's personal issues that have been bleeding into work for way too long. Our manager role is turning into strictly people focused after everything is supposed to be said and done and because all technical responsibilities are gone, the role will have a lot more direct reports than I'm comfortable with; doing only that everyday doesn't appeal to me. The technical leadership responsibilities have moved into other roles.

That's why I asked if your organization is stable. One of the books I really like on software dev management is called "The Manager's Path" and I recommend checking it out if you think this might be the path you want to down. Even with all the pain and frustration I've dealt with, I've loved being able to manage a team and realizing I need to transition into another role (or leave) has been incredibly difficult for me to accept.

thanks for this good post :glomp:

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

Bloody posted:

how do i interview people
BEFORE
- review the candidate's resume AND the job requisition. mark required skills on the resume and note any significant skill gaps.
- prepare and write down your questions. allocate 3-5 minutes for short answer, 10-15 for long answer/design, 20 for coding (i.e. you probably should leave the coding exercise to someone else)
  • describe some ubiquitous features of required tech (e.g. how do you define a subclass in java, what's a foreign key in SQL, where are system configuration files in Linux). these should be features that someone experienced in the tech would necessarily know from memory. I call these the "spell cat" questions.
  • design a solution to a simple problem using tech that they claim experience in that is relevant to the job (e.g. schematize a simple data model, create a "select/deselect all" UI)
  • describe a difficult work situation in their experience and how they dealt with it
  • if there are any significant skill gaps in the resume, ask whether they have experience with those.

DURING
- shake the candidate's hand, introduce yourself, and make small talk about something on their resume
- if the candidate blanks at a question, ask whether they understood. if they continue to blank, move on.
- don't ask questions touching on the candidate's race, sex, age, national origin, religion, marital status, pregnancy, citizenship status, veteran status, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity/expression (e.g. "where are you from?", "when did you graduate high school?")

AFTER
- write up feedback promptly, with a hire/don't hire decision and brief reasons

Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 18, 2018

HoboMan
Nov 4, 2010

aw poo poo, i need to think of answers to those "describe a time it was hard to do your job" type questions. i hate those, because i can barely remember what i worked on last week and i never feel like i am being particularly heroic i'm just doing my job man

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

HoboMan posted:

aw poo poo, i need to think of answers to those "describe a time it was hard to do your job" type questions. i hate those, because i can barely remember what i worked on last week and i never feel like i am being particularly heroic i'm just doing my job man

:same:

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde
The purpose isnt to find heroes, it’s to find out what the candidate considers a challenge and what they do about it. eg given a technical challenge do they brush it off or sit on their thumb until the due date or work constructively

Glorgnole
Oct 23, 2012

Bloody posted:

how do i interview people

devise an open-ended microproject that lets the candidate demonstrate their creativity and problem-solving skills, then flunk everyone who didn't solve it using exactly the same methods you did

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Gazpacho posted:

describe a difficult work situation in their experience and how they dealt with it

No don't.

Gazpacho posted:

The purpose isnt to find heroes, it’s to find out what the candidate considers a challenge and what they do about it. eg given a technical challenge do they brush it off or sit on their thumb until the due date or work constructively

"Describe a difficult work situation" is too vague to be of any use in a technical interview. If you want to find out about a difficult technical challenge, ask about that.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde
the purpose isn't exclusively to find out about technical challenges, though. it's to find out about challenges of whatever sort occurs to the candidate to talk about

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Ask them real a problem you've encountered in your actual work.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

i hate the ones that are like "describe a time you had to deal with conflict" because idk those moments are never memorable to me like ive generally worked w/ pleasant people and it hasnt been an issue so i just kinda stammer for a while

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Bloody posted:

i hate the ones that are like "describe a time you had to deal with conflict" because idk those moments are never memorable to me like ive generally worked w/ pleasant people and it hasnt been an issue so i just kinda stammer for a while

in that case just drill down on a project. ie, tell me about this project. how was it architected, what conflicts did you run into. how did you set expectations with customers/management/whatever.

HoboMan
Nov 4, 2010

Bloody posted:

i hate the ones that are like "describe a time you had to deal with conflict" because idk those moments are never memorable to me like ive generally worked w/ pleasant people and it hasnt been an issue so i just kinda stammer for a while

:yossame:

Share Bear
Apr 27, 2004

Gazpacho posted:

BEFORE
- review the candidate's resume AND the job requisition. mark required skills on the resume and note any significant skill gaps.
- prepare and write down your questions. allocate 3-5 minutes for short answer, 10-15 for long answer/design, 20 for coding (i.e. you probably should leave the coding exercise to someone else)
  • describe some ubiquitous features of required tech (e.g. how do you define a subclass in java, what's a foreign key in SQL, where are system configuration files in Linux). these should be features that someone experienced in the tech would necessarily know from memory. I call these the "spell cat" questions.
  • design a solution to a simple problem using tech that they claim experience in that is relevant to the job (e.g. schematize a simple data model, create a "select/deselect all" UI)
  • describe a difficult work situation in their experience and how they dealt with it
  • if there are any significant skill gaps in the resume, ask whether they have experience with those.

DURING
- shake the candidate's hand, introduce yourself, and make small talk about something on their resume
- if the candidate blanks at a question, ask whether they understood. if they continue to blank, move on.
- don't ask questions touching on the candidate's race, sex, age, national origin, religion, marital status, pregnancy, citizenship status, veteran status, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity/expression (e.g. "where are you from?", "when did you graduate high school?")

AFTER
- write up feedback promptly, with a hire/don't hire decision and brief reasons

add this to the op

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

Share Bear posted:

add this to the op
no don't, if it were going in the OP as advice for everyone I'd write it differently (e.g. "spell cat" questions should normally be limited to the phone screen)

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Gazpacho posted:

the purpose isn't exclusively to find out about technical challenges, though. it's to find out about challenges of whatever sort occurs to the candidate to talk about

This is a half-step removed from asking "what's your greatest weakness."

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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

I like "tell me about a project/client/customer interaction that did not go as smoothly as planned and how you resolved the issues"

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