Sarsapariller posted:

This is kind of a lovely standard though. Think about it as it applies to any other degree. "Those History degree holders had to start pumping MLM schemes! Got to put bread on the table! Just aren't enough history jobs!" A degree in a subject does not entitle you to a career in that subject, and in fact is mostly just a rubber stamp saying "This person has been through college." Tons and tons of people, maybe most people, get degrees that have nothing to do with the job that they currently perform.

The problem I see from my very distant and judgmental perch is that Game Design/Game Art seem like basically scam degrees, designed to bilk idiot teenagers of 2-4 years of tuition in return for the promise of a "Dream career" and a piece of paper that actually makes you less employable instead of more. The fact that "A degree in Game Design" and "Ability to actually develop a game" are separate things is blowing my mind, and compounding the it's-a-scam feeling for me. The good news is that it's a life lesson! But being scammed doesn't excuse signing up to scam others. You are right that morals don't pay rent or put food on the table. That is why Dumbledore gets to make big speeches about the distinction between "Doing what is right" and "Doing what is easy." Everyone is put in positions during the course of their careers where they have to decide between basic moral principles and their careers. It is what you do at that point that is worth praise or chastisement. The people developing Star Citizen have chosen to keep their mouths shut and roll with what they know is a scam. That's worth a bit of scorn now and again.

Beet Wagon posted:

Before I start, I should say that I haven't played Hellion in like... forever. But take a look at how "mining" works in Hellion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-boGpbYK8Ts

Mining in and of itself is very simple: you poke the drill at the space rock. Hell, even the "refining" part is as simple as dragging and dropping some stuff on a screen and being immediately rewarded as the magic space machine turns your rocks into ore instantly. Okay, so no real revolutions here - that's about on par with mining and refining in World of Warcraft. But look at the stuff surrounding the actual mining and refining, and you start to see why this implementation is vastly more interesting than CIG's. In Hellion, mining involves some very serious risk/reward trade-offs. You have to actually get out of your ship, use all the fiddly little consoles they put in there for "immersion," navigate to the asteroid via EVA, and then travel back to dump off your canister. Any one of these is a place where something could go wrong - you might forget to lower your visor, or an enemy player might come by and destroy or jack your ship, leaving you stranded, or you might - like I have every time I've played Hellion - forget to hold on to something and go spinning wildly off into space. These things put an exciting "filter" on the very boring act of mining, making it sometimes a very tense affair, and they're all uniquely possible in Hellion because of the "you're controlling the man controlling your spaceship" aspect of it. The greatest strength of having first person mechanics in their space game is the ability to use them to make the player get up out of the cockpit every once in a while. They've implemented Elite-style "Shoot the space rock" mechanics, but surrounded by unique and interesting features in a way CIG hasn't and likely can't. I say "can't" here because while I'm sure they could retool their mining mechanic to make better use of the things that separate them from other spacegames, they're already duty-bound to cling to lovely, same-ey mechanics because for the last six years they've been selling things like "mining ships" and "Repair ships" - items that have brought them tons of money but have locked them into having to deliver a very specific kind of usability to their customers. What's the point of a "mining ship" if you must mine by hand? Conversely, why mine by hand when you've bought a $400 piece of concept art for the be-all end-all mining ship in the game? The development of fun mechanics for Star Citizen is hamstrung by their previous greed. Obviously this should come as no surprise to anyone here, but it's something I think we all take for granted a little bit, especially when we laugh at them for "putting in another golf swing mechanic." It's easy to forget that even if they wanted to or could do better than a golf-swing, they've effectively cut themselves off from new gameplay mechanics through their sales practices. The hands cutting off the legs, as it were.

Scruffpuff posted:

I still maintain that a sizeable percentage of CIG's employees are as taken by the scam as the backers are, if not moreso.

Scruffpuff posted:

Interesting way of looking at (one of) the problem(s) with CIG. The game isn't being designed by the Crobbler, nor by the backers, nor by qualified game designers. The game is being passively designed by the funding model itself. This can only lead to good things IMO.

Mirificus posted:

https://twitter.com/giogetmoneyTV/status/984901399531216897

Jobbo_Fett posted:

deja-vu

Scruffpuff posted:

Interesting way of looking at (one of) the problem(s) with CIG. The game isn't being designed by the Crobbler, nor by the backers, nor by qualified game designers. The game is being passively designed by the funding model itself. This can only lead to good things IMO.

ManofManyAliases posted:

Let the belt out a few notches today, ok?

EightAce posted:

Many of the devs at CIG have been sold the same lie as the backers. They are not complicit in a scam they are doing What their paid to do . Lots of these guys could end up unemployed because of the actions of the bad news bears.

Some of the guys are genuinely talented passionate devs who are so enclosed in their little bit of the verse they can't see it from the outside. It's like working at area 51 , all these guys doing their thing but only the top tier know the whole plan. Unfortunately that top tier is wig commander and his generals.

Mirificus posted:

https://twitter.com/iq_derek/status/987327052691988480

Zzr posted:

déjà-vu

Drunk Theory posted:

Yes. This is what I wanted to point out. To be honest, I have no problem in a spaceship game with "shoot rocks, get rock chunks, drag chunks from one table to another, get metal" style game design as an extrapolation for all the real details that go into mining. I think it's a perfectly serviceable, if slightly boring way of simplifying a complex process in a $60 space game.

But Star Citizen is not a $60 space game. Star Citizen is the best drat space sim to ever not exist for all time. Star Citizen's narrative that has allowed them to sell "mining ships" for hundreds or thousands of dollars should demand something better. But I'm sure in a year or five years time backers will be claiming they always wanted "shoot rocks, get metal" and you were an idiot if you expected anything else.

Scruffpuff posted:

Dev1: "Hey, I have a great idea for this mechanic, what if..."
Dev2: "We can't do that, it's not what we sold"
Dev1: "What about this idea?"
Dev2: "Sorry we already sold a ship for that too. We are tied down as to what we can make."
Dev1: "Thank god our creative freedom isn't constrained by publishers!"

big nipples big life posted:

I REALLY want to see the emails that negative iq and his buddies are sending these places. I can only imagine how retarded and hilarious they are.

tuo posted:

When he said his dog is more intelligent than all of us

SPERMCUBE.ORG posted:

Well, unlike many of us posting here, no dog ever gave money to Chris Roberts so it checks out.

IcarusUpHigh posted:

tane

Dooguk posted:

Consumers fighting against consumer rights.

Mirificus posted:

big nipples big life posted:

I REALLY want to see the emails that negative iq and his buddies are sending these places. I can only imagine how retarded and hilarious they are.

DapperDon posted:

This. This right here is exactly why I lay all of the blame at Crobberts feet. This reason right here. You can feel free to give this guy all sorts of leeway and I get that coming from you. But at no time will I ever take my boot off of his neck about this. There are far too many deserving devs that would have delivered something very spectacular with even a fraction of the money that Chris has scammed out of people. Yes I understand I am waving the "Not Fair" flag here but it is the absolute truth. Chris does not deserve the gift he has squandered. And in no way will anyone ever be able to melt down the lie that Chris is competent in any way and pour it on me.

ManofManyAliases posted:

No - my personal feeling is that the current code base, current iteration that is backer-facing and current attitude is one that is 2 steps behind what CIG is privately working. They have contracted resources assisting with the netcode and are likely working on a scalability model for AWS, none of which fall under the umbrella of "open development" because it could be proprietary and simply not ready for public consumption. Not everything CIG does needs to be broadcast, especially if it's not ready (which I know is par for the course in some aspects).

Fidelitious posted:

But I mean, plenty of people here are still in for the long haul right?

I'm backer #2000 something, in for $35 right about 6 years ago. It's a small price to pay for the ability to heat up rocks in the near future.

big nipples big life posted:

moma believes in the secret build