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unlawfulsoup posted:Another reason to add to the pile of why I am not a fan of belters. if i had to eat nothing but mushrooms my entire life i'd be a communist revolutionary too
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May 3, 2018 15:43
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Milo and POTUS posted:What do you think that kibble was, some sort of rice and bean/lentil curry something or another? I'd probably rather have that than fake cheese lasagna. Here ya go: https://m.imgur.com/a/Ad35V
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May 3, 2018 15:47
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That looks truly vile. Anybody who enjoys mushrooms should seek therapy.
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May 3, 2018 15:55
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Filler ep, but a pretty good one. Also, yeah, the railgun thing is kind of nonsensical. Getting from Earth to say, Saturn, at c would take what, about an hour? And you can tell from the shot that the projectile is not moving anywhere near that fast. So best case, the Martians have a few hours to respond, and could probably move their platforms via a radio signal that will handily outrun the shot. AND AND AND they didn't actually fire the guns in such a way for simultaneous impact, they all fire at once. Unless you assume that they tuned the velocity of each shot to all hit simultaneously. That doesn't make much sense, since you're going to be leashed to the timing for the longest shot, giving Mars even more of a window. And we KNOW Mars can respond, because a delay of only a few seconds allowed them to fire some missiles. Oh well, (shrug). And yeah, stealth in space is functionally impossible. If nothing else, I can scan a full sky with high resolution cameras every second and look for optical differences. Your'e still gonna block starlight. AlternateAccount fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 16:02
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AlternateAccount posted:Filler ep, but a pretty good one. Stars are very small and the sky is very big. You all have a lot of faith in optical technology but a fundamental misunderstanding of the inverse square law. Also, the platforms were only a few light-seconds from Earth. They definitely compressed the timeframes, but the Martian platforms were not out by Saturn.
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May 3, 2018 16:18
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Every time Cara Gee appears on screen I can't help but think that they should just kill of Holden and replace him with Drummer. She even has way better chemistry with Naomi than he does!
Gorn Myson fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 16:25
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A quick google for 'how long light travel earth to mars' gives (at closest possible approach) 182 seconds or a little over 3 minutes. Assuming railgun rounds travel at 1% of c, that's still over
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May 3, 2018 16:27
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Milo and POTUS posted:Idk who the white guy was but man he looked familiar The lady was the new nerd they got. The white guy was the rich guy with connections.
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May 3, 2018 16:31
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Cojawfee posted:The lady was the new nerd they got. The white guy was the rich guy with connections. Well I'd never seen the show (or maybe the first few episodes?). But he looked so familiar and I couldn't peg him
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May 3, 2018 16:38
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Stars are very small and the sky is very big. You all have a lot of faith in optical technology but a fundamental misunderstanding of the inverse square law. Eh, I think I was thinking mostly of this: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php Isn't there a big map on the UN table during that ep? They looked a lot further away than that to me. Ten light seconds still isn't very far away, but fair enough, maybe the stealth was such that they felt they could be close. edit: Also, I am not misunderstanding inverse square. I mean poo poo, we have the ability to recognize an object passing in front of another start across the galaxy with current tech, so it's not a stretch to have the ability to distinguish changes more quickly and accurately a few hundred years hence. AlternateAccount fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 16:39
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Stars are very small and the sky is very big. You all have a lot of faith in optical technology but a fundamental misunderstanding of the inverse square law. This happens every time the topic comes up on SA. Yes, you cannot truly hide in space. That does not mean everyone suddenly has perfect knowledge and the ability to track literally every object in the entire solar system. Stealth is not about being invisible, it's about being unnoticed. Space is very, very big and ships are very, very small.
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May 3, 2018 16:55
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Grand Fromage posted:This happens every time the topic comes up on SA. Yeah, give the show credit that most of the time, you see people avoiding attention by looking like something else, or just being part of the background noise with nothing to stand out.
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May 3, 2018 17:01
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They also mention, at least in the books, that most ships don't have particularly good sensors. Drive plumes give you away immediately, and ships are all running transponders. The Martian stealth tech is a new-ish thing that they haven't figured out how to deal with yet. Also like the Epstein drive they don't explain how it works.  Though I think they do mention a coating that absorbs all radar and maybe also lidar? I forget.
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May 3, 2018 17:04
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Food. You put it in that big hole in your face 404notfound posted:Well, that was a very brief change of heart for Mao Mao gonna Mao
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May 3, 2018 17:26
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If I'm remembering the first book correctly, Ade actually notices a patch of space that's a bit warmer than background right before the Anubis fires up its drive and nukes the Cant, but they don't really get into the exact specifics of how the stealth composites work beyond that.Grand Fromage posted:Also like the Epstein drive they don't explain how it works.
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May 3, 2018 17:28
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AlternateAccount posted:Eh, I think I was thinking mostly of this: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php We do have that ability now, but doing that across the entire sky is practically impossible as evidenced by the fact that we notice an asteroid pass between the Earth and moon all the time: just usually not until after it has passed by. An imaging system taking in the entire sky like that would be on the magnitude of a few billion satellites, all with Hubble-scale resolution. And even then, the MCRN could just plot courses so that the platforms never occlude a star visible from Earth, meaning you need even more satellites! If you can make that many bespoke imaging platforms, you are probably putting that budget into more ships, not cameras, and an active-radar cordon between Earth and Luna.
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May 3, 2018 17:32
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:We do have that ability now, but doing that across the entire sky is practically impossible as evidenced by the fact that we notice an asteroid pass between the Earth and moon all the time: just usually not until after it has passed by. You should really read the article in the post you quoted, it covers everything you raised, and gives plausible answers on how the problems you're raising wouldn't be much of a problem in a setting like The Expanse's.
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May 3, 2018 17:43
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AlternateAccount posted:AND AND AND they didn't actually fire the guns in such a way for simultaneous impact, they all fire at once. Unless you assume that they tuned the velocity of each shot to all hit simultaneously. They did though, that was the entire reason why platform 5 got one missile off, the firing delay caused projectile 5 to arrive late enough that the warning the other platforms sent on their destruction warmed it up just in time. Also I really don't understand how people are still having trouble understanding the stealth tech. It's an entirely reasonable and logical extension of the stealth tech we've had since the 1980s, and on screen it has been routinely demonstrated as functioning exactly the same way, even if the exact engineering is handwaved. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 17:55 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 17:44
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if that is the secret to crushing rear end to dust then sign me up
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May 3, 2018 18:06
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NTRabbit posted:They did though, that was the entire reason why platform 5 got one missile off, the firing delay caused projectile 5 to arrive late enough that the warning the other platforms sent on their destruction warmed it up just in time. I get what people are saying about stealth ships being impossible, but I don't think the stealth ships on The Expanse were ever really billed as being invisible, more that they used the tech to hide their signatures and profiles and would run cold or pretend to be civilian traffic. But with the platforms... ATP_Power posted:You should really read the article in the post you quoted, it covers everything you raised, and gives plausible answers on how the problems you're raising wouldn't be much of a problem in a setting like The Expanse's. I think in this specific circumstance: an unmanned platform with a long-development time and no need to burn or maneuver until firing, it would probably work: Atomic Rockets posted:First, there is the simple issue that, even if one can make a system that renders a ship totally undetectable when not using its drive, the ship in question will become visible as soon as it begins to burn. Not only that, it reveals its mass and velocity as well. This provides the opponent with the vessel's destination and arrival time even if they later lose track of it, which defeats the purpose of stealth in the first place. While there are certain types of drives that might be stealthy (low-power mass drivers and cold gas thrusters) both suffer from limitations that prevent them from being used for major course changes on reasonable mission timescales. The highest practical exhaust velocity that can be obtained from cold gas thrusters is with hydrogen, at just below 3,000 m/s. The low exhaust velocity, combined with the problems of handling hydrogen, limits the ability of a ship using those thrusters to make any significant changes in its velocity. Another serious complication is the difficulty of storing hydrogen. Gaseous hydrogen requires massively large and heavy tanks, limiting practical delta-V to less than a hundred meters per second, and liquid hydrogen is difficult to work with and very bulky, although it would be relatively easy to warm up to operating temperature using the waste heat produced by the rest of the ship. So 129 light seconds with a crew. Without a crew the detection range would be much lower, maybe 1/10th of with a crew. So as long as they delivered the platforms over months/years and kept it super-cold and coated with ~magic stealth tech~ the platforms would be basically undetectable until firing. Once the UN got a bead on one, it let them guesstimate the location of others until they had enough discovered to map out the flock and plan their assault.
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May 3, 2018 18:19
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pretty sure the amount of junk in space to keep track of expanded exponentially once you had several generations of corps doing poo poo, especially if the attitude that spawned belters applied to things that weren't profitable to pick up out on operations in space.
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May 3, 2018 18:23
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I get what people are saying about stealth ships being impossible, but I don't think the stealth ships on The Expanse were ever really billed as being invisible, more that they used the tech to hide their signatures and profiles and would run cold or pretend to be civilian traffic. But with the platforms... There's nothing different about the platforms though, they're using the same stealth tech to reduce their profile to background noise, and Earth can never see them with radar because they never use a main drive to move, they're always floating in a distant orbit that they nudge randomly with thrusters. Earth spotted them using a super expensive optical telescope program, which they only knew to do through spying uncovering their existence, with the field of search narrowed based on mathematics, and even then considered it a lottery win to spot two at once. Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:~magic stealth tech~ Radar Absorbent Material. It's not magic, it's engineering and materials science that Lockheed came up with like 40 years ago, and actually exists and is used today. I mean, surely you all saw the photos of the F-117 that were released to the public in like 1988, this can't be a mandella effect. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 19:02 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 18:58
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Explaining how we can't do the things done in sci-fi is the most tedious. Y'all are missing the tiny Mars stealth wizards, clearly. I find myself enjoying the filler episodes more than the big setpiece ones. The strength of the books was in the character interactions and those are often lost as we get everyone where they need to go.
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May 3, 2018 19:20
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Explaining how we can't do the things done in sci-fi is the most tedious. Y'all are missing the tiny Mars stealth wizards, clearly. Yeah I really liked this episode and I definitely don’t consider it to be “filler”.
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May 3, 2018 20:26
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NTRabbit posted:There's nothing different about the platforms though, they're using the same stealth tech to reduce their profile to background noise, and Earth can never see them with radar because they never use a main drive to move, they're always floating in a distant orbit that they nudge randomly with thrusters. Earth spotted them using a super expensive optical telescope program, which they only knew to do through spying uncovering their existence, with the field of search narrowed based on mathematics, and even then considered it a lottery win to spot two at once. Eh, that discussion was getting into super-  territory and Atomic Rockets goes into detail about how that kind of tech is pointless for various reasons including you can see the space shuttle's maneuvering thrusters from Pluto with common commercial tech today.  theCalamity posted:Yeah I really liked this episode and I definitely don’t consider it to be “filler”. I felt like the cold open was filler-ish. I get that we need the Nauvoo back for the rest of the season but it still felt like they wasted some sfx budget on pushing the Nauvoo around again. We get it: thruster-drones. You did this in season 2...couldn't we get another space battle later in the season or some more zero-g Amos instead? Milo and POTUS posted:Idk who the white guy was but man he looked familiar Are we sure that Atticus Mittchell isn't Daniel Bruhl? I've never seen them in the same room together... 
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May 3, 2018 20:38
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NTRabbit posted:There's nothing different about the platforms though, they're using the same stealth tech to reduce their profile to background noise, and Earth can never see them with radar because they never use a main drive to move, they're always floating in a distant orbit that they nudge randomly with thrusters. Earth spotted them using a super expensive optical telescope program, which they only knew to do through spying uncovering their existence, with the field of search narrowed based on mathematics, and even then considered it a lottery win to spot two at once. Meta as gently caress because the book spoiler trap has been sprung (thats a joke) Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Are we sure that Atticus Mittchell isn't Daniel Bruhl? I've never seen them in the same room together... Wow. That's eerie. Milo and POTUS fucked around with this message at 21:02 on May 3, 2018 |
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May 3, 2018 20:56
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Grand Fromage posted:They also mention, at least in the books, that most ships don't have particularly good sensors. To the contrary, good telescopes are pretty ubiquitous in the books. With maybe a little exaggeration, Naomi says the Canterbury's sensor array could resolve human-scale objects on Luna from the Belt. That's why getting jumped by stealth ships was such a shock.
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May 3, 2018 22:29
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Toast Museum posted:To the contrary, good telescopes are pretty ubiquitous in the books. With maybe a little exaggeration, Naomi says the Canterbury's sensor array could resolve human-scale objects on Luna from the Belt. That's why getting jumped by stealth ships was such a shock. The first page notes that “a good scope” can see Solomon Epstein’s cold, dead yacht, which has been cruising at 5% of c for over a century. Forget resolution: just catching photons from that thing would be a serious undertaking.
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May 4, 2018 00:12
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I forget if in the books they explain how the Mormon’s ship was reaquired. I think it was on remote control. But in the show it makes no sense at all. It missed Eros having accelerated for a week or two at speeds that would kill belters within hours. From the show it was clear that it had no real way to flip and burn by itself to deaccelerate, or else there would have been no need to go and get it themselves. So how did they catch up to it?
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May 4, 2018 00:12
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bobfather posted:I forget if in the books they explain how the Mormon’s ship was reaquired. I think it was on remote control. This could be sort of explained with “it was fully loaded on fuel on launch and didn’t burn it all during those weeks toward Eros. The remainder was barely enough to flip and give it a solar orbit.” It would be an incredibly convenient coincidence, but it’s more possible than most of the show’s travel times. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 00:40 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 00:23
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bobfather posted:I forget if in the books they explain how the Mormon’s ship was reaquired. I think it was on remote control. They never say how long it was accelerating, and it wasn't accelerating when they caught up to it.
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May 4, 2018 00:38
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bobfather posted:I forget if in the books they explain how the Mormon’s ship was reaquired. I think it was on remote control. I’d be willing to bet the Nauvoo had just enough fuel to test fire the engines a bunch of times (or accelerate to Eros) as it was still under construction. So no where near the amount to do a solid accel-flip-decel to (wherever they were going). They probably had to smuggle fuel on board to get to accelerate all the way to Eros. When it runs out, the Nauvoo is on a purely ballistic orbit around the Sun. At that point you calculate a shortest time intercept as such that your velocity is 0 in relation to the Nauvoo.
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May 4, 2018 01:37
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https://i.imgur.com/vqNThop.mp4
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May 4, 2018 01:51
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Proteus Jones posted:When it runs out, the Nauvoo is on a purely ballistic orbit around the Sun. At that point you calculate a shortest time intercept as such that your velocity is 0 in relation to the Nauvoo. I guess not in the show, but book-Nauvoo was on a solar escape trajectory after missing Eros. Tycho had to send some fast motherfucker after it (purpose-built, I think). Edit: typo Toast Museum fucked around with this message at 03:04 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 02:00
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Toast Museum posted:I guess not in the show, but book-Nauvoo was on a solar escape trajectory after missing Eros. Tycho had to send some fast motherfucker after it (propose-built, I think). Yeah it was a very long and extremely risky mission that they just sort of glossed over. The show is compressing time but not really pointing it out. e: IIRC book-Nauvoo never stopped accelerating (gradually) until they caught it - no remote control off-switch, same reason they had to physically chase it down.
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May 4, 2018 02:18
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Chard posted:e: IIRC book-Nauvoo never stopped accelerating (gradually) until they caught it - no remote control off-switch, same reason they had to physically chase it down. My recollection is that thrust was cut but there was no way to do another burn.
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May 4, 2018 02:22
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I liked this because this is more of what the protomolecule did to Eros in the books than the glowy alien crystal thing they went with on the show.
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May 4, 2018 02:25
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Chard posted:Yeah it was a very long and extremely risky mission that they just sort of glossed over. The show is compressing time but not really pointing it out. The mission was announced and started in episode 1 and they didn't show up until episode 4. I mean I don't know what else they could have really done besides flashing "6 weeks later" at the bottom of the screen. Or we could occasionally get cuts to them just sitting in their ships complaining about higher G than they're used to. People would have bitched about both of those things too so what are you gonna do.
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May 4, 2018 02:26
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well that ending was more gruesome than i expected but yeah it fits the whole "disassemble everything" theme. i guess they weren't capable of disassembling the crew before. also loling how news cameras or something are still pointed at the ship on venus. holden is usually a pain in the rear end and attempting his best nolan batman voice, but i was very happy when he owned the martian looking for ammo. i understand where they were coming from but ugh i hated them from the first second.
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May 4, 2018 02:28
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So what exactly was that? Was the protomolecule analyzing the efficiency/effectiveness of the human body? The kid said something about distance and bandwidth, and redundant sensory inputs or something. I assume it was talking about the eyes.
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May 4, 2018 02:28
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