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Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



anthonypants posted:

why do you have three mouse cursors

He doesn't know how to use the three seashells cursors!

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ClassActionFursuit
Mar 15, 2006

ever since i went to three cursors i feel like my productivity has at least doubled maybe more

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
the forbidden yospos technique

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
I like the creativity here:


https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/04/obscure_e-mail_.html

quote:

This vulnerability is a result of an interaction between two different ways of handling e-mail addresses. Gmail ignores dots in addresses, so bruce.schneier@gmail.com is the same as bruceschneier@gmail.com is the same as b.r.u.c.e.schneier@gmail.com. (Note: I do not own any of those email addresses -- if they're even valid.) Netflix doesn't ignore dots, so those are all unique e-mail addresses and can each be used to register an account. This difference can be exploited.


quote:

I was almost fooled into perpetually paying for Eve's Netflix access, and only paused because I didn't recognize the declined card. More generally, the phishing scam here is:

Hammer the Netflix signup form until you find a gmail.com address which is "already registered". Let's say you find the victim jameshfisher.
Create a Netflix account with address james.hfisher.
Sign up for free trial with a throwaway card number.
After Netflix applies the "active card check", cancel the card.
Wait for Netflix to bill the cancelled card. Then Netflix emails james.hfisher asking for a valid card.
Hope Jim reads the email to james.hfisher, assumes it's for his Netflix account backed by jameshfisher, then enters his card **** 1234.
Change the email for the Netflix account to eve@gmail.com, kicking Jim's access to this account.
Use Netflix free forever with Jim's card **** 1234!
Obscure, yes? A problem, yes?

James Fisher, who wrote the post, argues that it's Google's fault. Ignoring dots might give people an enormous number of different email addresses, but it's not a feature that people actually want. And as long as other sites don't follow Google's lead, these sorts of problems are possible.

I think the problem is more subtle. It's an example of two systems without a security vulnerability coming together to create a security vulnerability. As we connect more systems directly to each other, we're going to see a lot more of these. And like this Google/Netflix interaction, it's going to be hard to figure out who to blame and who -- if anyone -- has the responsibility of fixing it.

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
if you dont validate emails before letting people sign up you deserve whatever you loving get

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

if you dont validate emails before letting people sign up you deserve whatever you loving get

sounds like you're trying to increase friction, a natural impediment to growth hacking. perhaps you'll be more at home in a legacy industry?

Celexi
Nov 25, 2006

Slava Ukraini!
what I like most is trying online games that someone created an account with my email address, so i then recover password and end up with a loaded up account from the get to go

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
someone signed up to farmersonly.com with my email.

also their mobile phone provider for their company. which i cancelled.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

if you dont validate emails before letting people sign up you deserve whatever you loving get

Additional subscribers for less effort.

Shaman Linavi
Apr 3, 2012

i have multiple people using one of my email aliases for all their work poo poo
one of them did a good job working at the Commonwealth games and got invited back for next year

Bulgakov
Mar 8, 2009


рукописи не горят

i wonder if theres groups out there who run mass schemes of registering email addresses of using the names of target politicians/business leaders/etc on all the big email services they can in the chance they catch oops

if someone as dumb as me has thought of it then I assume a) yes and b) theres already been reporting on it

like domain squatting but for everyone on an organizational chart or something I dunno!!

Lain Iwakura
Aug 5, 2004

The body exists only to verify one's own existence.

Taco Defender
i was getting someone's at&t bills for a long time

thanks, melissa for paying your bills in a timely fashion

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

Bulgakov posted:

i wonder if theres groups out there who run mass schemes of registering email addresses of using the names of target politicians/business leaders/etc on all the big email services they can in the chance they catch oops

i, bill gates, am giving away a million dollars to one lucky person!!

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Lutha Mahtin posted:

i, bill gates, am giving away a million dollars to one lucky person!!

no, its the reverse kind of phishing where the marks email you sensitive material out of the blue

it owns to have a name thats similar to a celebrity

Bulgakov
Mar 8, 2009


рукописи не горят

Krankenstyle posted:

no, its the reverse kind of phishing where the marks email you sensitive material out of the blue

it owns to have a name thats similar to a celebrity

thats what I meant so thanks

there is no way that backwards phishing hasn't been conspired on a nation-state level

sincerely,

bill warren buffet gates

Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

if you dont validate emails before letting people sign up you deserve whatever you loving get

I nuked someone’s nook and library because it wouldn’t stop emailing me and there was no way to stop it other than assume the account

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



i always do a password reset on their poo poo

in many ways, i am the poop theyre touching

fins
May 31, 2011

Floss Finder

James Baud posted:

Arguably dead man switch if we put stock in the links between Paul Le Roux and Truecrypt:

https://magazine.atavist.com/he-always-had-a-dark-side

Article is a pro-click; I'd recommend starting from part 1, and set aside an hour or so!

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat

Krankenstyle posted:

i always do a password reset on their poo poo

in many ways, i am the poop theyre touching

the worst is when people give out your email to sign up for things like mailing lists for their kids little league hockey teams.

because even if you get yourself removed everyone is still doing a "reply all" on an old thread and nobody really pays attention to your pleas to get off the list.

after over 2 full seasons of that siht I offered photography services for their children in my pimped out astro van with no windows, free of charge, and the head of the league threatened to call the police.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

the worst is when people give out your email to sign up for things like mailing lists for their kids little league hockey teams.

because even if you get yourself removed everyone is still doing a "reply all" on an old thread and nobody really pays attention to your pleas to get off the list.

after over 2 full seasons of that siht I offered photography services for their children in my pimped out astro van with no windows, free of charge, and the head of the league threatened to call the police.

getting on the sex offenders registry to own da libs

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



lmao

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

Salt Fish posted:

I like the creativity here:


https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/04/obscure_e-mail_.html


James Fisher, who wrote the post, argues that it's Google's fault. Ignoring dots might give people an enormous number of different email addresses, but it's not a feature that people actually want. And as long as other sites don't follow Google's lead, these sorts of problems are possible.

I think the problem is more subtle. It's an example of two systems without a security vulnerability coming together to create a security vulnerability. As we connect more systems directly to each other, we're going to see a lot more of these. And like this Google/Netflix interaction, it's going to be hard to figure out who to blame and who -- if anyone -- has the responsibility of fixing it.

[/quote]

its entirely google's fault. like not even a question.

sleepwalkers
Dec 7, 2008


Shaggar posted:

its entirely google's fault. like not even a question.

iunno, i place a little bit of blame on netflix for allowing someone to modify account details without verifying email or password at all.

anthonypants
May 6, 2007

by Nyc_Tattoo
Dinosaur Gum

Salt Fish posted:

I like the creativity here:


https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2018/04/obscure_e-mail_.html


James Fisher, who wrote the post, argues that it's Google's fault. Ignoring dots might give people an enormous number of different email addresses, but it's not a feature that people actually want. And as long as other sites don't follow Google's lead, these sorts of problems are possible.

I think the problem is more subtle. It's an example of two systems without a security vulnerability coming together to create a security vulnerability. As we connect more systems directly to each other, we're going to see a lot more of these. And like this Google/Netflix interaction, it's going to be hard to figure out who to blame and who -- if anyone -- has the responsibility of fixing it.
i'm the link on "a throwaway card number" which goes to a page which reads, "Sorry, but we're no longer taking applications or inquires about new accounts."

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal

sleepwalkers posted:

iunno, i place a little bit of blame on netflix for allowing someone to modify account details without verifying email or password at all.

not so much account details as creation. if jameshfisher had to approve the jamesh.fisher account this trick wouldn't work (unless he clicks on it by reflex just like with the cc renewal)

once the account is created email verification wouldn't help because both emails route to the same gmail account and jameshfisher believes he is configuring his own account

although now that I am rereading it I am confused how it gets from email link to account config page without asking for credentials on the way. if netflix is emailing out pre-authenticated links that's also bad

haveblue fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 15, 2018

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

Mailing out magic links isn’t a big deal if you’re going to give that same email address the ability to do password resets anyway.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

is the "dots" feature even allowed under the relevant standards? in before somebody posts that regex from the RFC

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Lutha Mahtin posted:

is the "dots" feature even allowed under the relevant standards? in before somebody posts that regex from the RFC

i don't think theres an rfc about how you redirect emails

like you can use about 5 different permutations of my name and initials to get an email to my inbox at work

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Someone should tell that guy about how google handles plus symbols in email addresses.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

the post that Schneier references talks about plus addresses. spoiler alert he's not a fan of those either

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

I can see people not caring too much about the dot feature since it's presumably just there to catch mistyped addresses (seems like a bit of an arbitrary character to have chosen for that reason tbh) - but the plus thing is genuinely really useful.

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

big fan of plus signs and periods to get multiple free trial months of services here.

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

The third one that I think still works is googlemail.com is an alias of gmail.com

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

yeah, and it prevents an attacker from registering all of those typos and then impersonating the target address

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters
i solved the problem of "people with the same name using my email" by having a common-as-dirt name and therefore never having the chance to grab the my.name@whatever.com address

life hack: don't be interesting in any way whatsoever

sleepwalkers
Dec 7, 2008


Trabisnikof posted:

Mailing out magic links isn’t a big deal if you’re going to give that same email address the ability to do password resets anyway.

yeah, i thought about that as well but its maybe a more obvious tell when netflix sends an email saying 'verify your new netflix account we need you to interact with this' to an email that already has an account than if they just jump to 'click this link and theres no guarantee well present you with or youll notice any differences in credentials"

ol qwerty bastard
Dec 13, 2005

If you want something done, do it yourself!

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

someone signed up to farmersonly.com with my email.

also their mobile phone provider for their company. which i cancelled.

Holy poo poo me too. And a dirt bike forum. And a "large black ladies" dating site.

Then there was the guy in the UK who used my email on a car loan application; I love how much sensitive personal information they started sending to me once he fell behind on his payments

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

How exactly does this netflix "exploit" work? You get an email saying that youemail+lolnotreally@gmail.com netflix account has an invalid card on it and asks you to provide a new one... so you click a link to netflix and it asks you to log in, and you log into your normal account instead of the one with the expired card... and everything is fine?

The only way I could see this being an issue is if netflix send out a magic link that logs you into an account and lets you access billing details with no verification what so ever. If that's the case then there seems to be a pretty obvious fix.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

yeah the issue is netflix not verifying emails

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Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Trabisnikof posted:

yeah the issue is netflix not verifying emails

No I mean, even if they don't verify emails, I don't know the password to the account with dots in it. I can't add a new card to that account even if I wanted to since I can't log into it.

Netflix would have to be sending out an email that not only logged you in automatically without providing a username or password, but also gives you access to billing details. It's not uncommon to request a password a second time when accessing sensitive account information such as card and address details, even if you're already logged in. The idea that netflix would provide a link that bypasses any sort of authentication seems like the glaring issue here, if that's indeed the case.

What am I missing?

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