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Traxis posted:Yep, I can cast other spells from the grimoire just fine. Yeah that sounds like an oversight then.
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May 21, 2018 16:43
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Captain Oblivious posted:This is because Ranger is a dumb class, and should have always been a subclass of Fighter and/or Rogue. This is true in D&D as well. Fight me if you disagree. The natural nerd reaction to thought of someone wanting to spend all of their time outside.
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May 21, 2018 16:47
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Rangers definitely have disappointing high level abilities, but I certainly don't regret going single class ranger with Maia. Once I gave her that dragon gun from the Brass Citadel, she became my highest damage character. Having rapid reload, driving flight, marksman, stalkers link, concussive tranquilizer (best ranger ability imo) etc. significantly earlier was quite helpful. Stunning Shots is also a great passive and makes high crit rate less painful with guns. If you want to get value out of your pet, you need to invest heavily in their passives, too. I see a lot of people poo poo talk Ishiza, but he very rarely went down for me and held his own damage-wise against all but the most heavily armored enemies. That said, they need to, at the very least, change the cost of Twinned Shot. Why on earth would I spend 3 focus on that when I could be spamming concussive tranquilizer or wounding shot for 1 focus a pop? Resources are quite a bit more limited as a single class character, so why make the exclusives so expensive?
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May 21, 2018 16:47
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bongwizzard posted:The natural nerd reaction to thought of someone wanting to spend all of their time outside. Ranger is just a Bow Fighter. Sometimes they’re a Fighter with a pet. They don’t have a meaningfully distinct identity. 
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May 21, 2018 16:56
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If you're extremely boring, then yes, those are correct I guess
frajaq fucked around with this message at 17:01 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 16:58
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Captain Oblivious posted:Ranger is just a Bow Fighter. Sometimes they’re a Fighter with a pet. They don’t have a meaningfully distinct identity. Hence, the pet Rangers are for the person in the group whose fantasy isn't power or magic or strength or wisdom, but a fluffly animal pet I mean no judgin it's a good dream Just a dream I can't share . . . not anymore, says Gianni Wick, the bleak walker / ghost heart
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May 21, 2018 16:58
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99813-item-and-ability-synergy-post-your-gems/?p=2030010 This is cool, I'm going to give it a try on a future playthrough.
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May 21, 2018 17:00
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Captain Oblivious posted:Ranger is just a Bow Fighter. Sometimes they’re a Fighter with a pet. They don’t have a meaningfully distinct identity. 'Has a bear/lion friend' is a perfectly distinct thing. The bigger issue is fighters are melee only for no reason like every other martial class.
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May 21, 2018 17:01
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frajaq posted:If you're extremely boring, then yes, those are correct I guess Look buddy it’s not my fault the majority of your class identity is in a skill anyone can take.
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May 21, 2018 17:05
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Quick question since I'm an idiot. Evasive Fire will still shoot if the gun isn't loaded, right? e: Also, from way back, but swords were really often just status symbols of the wealthy and heroes. They're not great weapons. If you wanted to kill someone, throughout most of recorded history, you took a sharp pointed object on a stick. Sometimes that sharp object had other things attached to it, like an axe, hammer, or gun, but it was a sharp pointed object on a stick. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 17:19 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 17:07
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Captain Oblivious posted:Look buddy it’s not my fault the majority of your class identity is in a skill anyone can take. Only rangers can take marksman >_<
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May 21, 2018 17:08
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I can't believe Dungeons & Dragons is thematically and mechanically incoherent.
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May 21, 2018 17:08
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Captain Oblivious posted:Ranger is just a Bow Fighter. Sometimes they’re a Fighter with a pet. They don’t have a meaningfully distinct identity. That's why I made my bow fighter be a bow fighter/fighter so i could get disciplined barrage, stances, etc. The 2 classes were born to be blended.
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May 21, 2018 17:09
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While we're speaking of ranged stuff.... Anyone get the unique arbalest Spearcaster from the smith in Periki's Overlook? And furthermore, enchant it with the Skewer upgrade? Because uh, that poo poo is maybe a wee bit overpowered. The description says "Fires a bolt through multiple enemies" something something, but that's kinda not the whole truth. It fires several bolts at once. In a very tight spread pattern. And yes, the bolts do pierce enemies. The thing is like a multi-shot railgun and it does absolutely preposterous amounts of damage. Granted it's only twice per rest, but jesus christ.
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May 21, 2018 17:10
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The class system could definitely have been streamlined with subclasses back in the first game, which would have made it less D&D-ey but more easy for newcomers to grasp. Have like three categories (melee fighter, spells, ranged glass cannon) and then make the existing classes subclasses in those categories. I think Dragon Age did that? I haven't done studies but I'd imagine people respond better to "choose one of these three, ok now choose one of THESE three" than "choose one of these eleven". I really like the effort put into making each class distinct though. Can learn new spells from books/gains mana by hitting/has an animal companion, etc. You can argue about utility but there's at least one unique thing about each class, except Fighters, whose unique thing is kind of that they don't have a unique thing
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May 21, 2018 17:23
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Give everyone guns, that is the solution to this sword vs. spear debate. Two handed guns, dual wielding guns, just strap down your adventurers with anything from four to eight guns each. Need a tank? Just give them a shield and a gun. Give your boat guns. Give Vela guns. Give the blue bird a gun.
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May 21, 2018 17:28
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Berke Negri posted:Give everyone guns, that is the solution to this sword vs. spear debate. Two handed guns, dual wielding guns, just strap down your adventurers with anything from four to eight guns each. Need a tank? Just give them a shield and a gun. we need shields with guns, rope kid
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May 21, 2018 17:30
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Daztek posted:we need shields with guns, rope kid I made a bleakwalker ghost heart build to use guns with. I would like a shield gun yes please. This is only one of the .... eight rerolls I’m tossing around as my first serious attempt. onesixtwo fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 17:35
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Captain Oblivious posted:Ranger is just a Bow Fighter. Sometimes they’re a Fighter with a pet. They don’t have a meaningfully distinct identity. A fighter is just anyone who is too dumb to learn magic and too clumsy to pick pockets. It’s like the default option for low achievers.
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May 21, 2018 17:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Has anyone found a wizard grimoire they particularly like using? One with all the fast-cast self-buffs would be nice, or unique Foe AoE spells.
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May 21, 2018 17:52
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Has anyone found a wizard grimoire they particularly like using? One with all the fast-cast self-buffs would be nice, or unique Foe AoE spells. Ninagauth's Grimoire is in the game and has the level 4 fireball spell with paralyze. It's not near insta cast like Poe1 any more but still pretty good.
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May 21, 2018 17:59
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Is there any reason not to use a grimoire?
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May 21, 2018 18:00
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Ravenfood posted:Quick question since I'm an idiot. Evasive Fire will still shoot if the gun isn't loaded, right? 
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May 21, 2018 18:01
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jokes posted:Is there any reason not to use a grimoire? No? They're just bonus spells. There's actually a decent argument to use only Grimoires and take only talents with your Wizard. Grimoires are free spells, and if you can find a few that have what you need you can just use those and spend all your level up points on talents.
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May 21, 2018 18:02
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Daztek posted:we need shields with guns, rope kid 
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May 21, 2018 18:07
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I was just wondering if there was some penalty for not using mental magic. Like how using a shield reduces accuracy or something.
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May 21, 2018 18:07
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Ginette Reno posted:No? They're just bonus spells. I think in practice that doesn't work, at least not as a pure wizard. There aren't that many passives wizards can take that are actually worth taking, and every level has at least a couple spells that aren't in most grimoires and that are pretty much universally worthwhile in almost every fight (arcane dampener, expose vulnerabilities, minoletta's anything, etc.) I think once all the grimoires get better info online there will be a lot of effort spent metagaming exactly which powers to take and which grimoires to use. Grimoires also mean that dual class wizards lose a lot less versatility than you'd think vs. single-class wizzies. Maia can do 90% of Aloth's job if you grimoire-optimize, while also taking plenty of ranger abilities.
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May 21, 2018 18:08
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Guys I can't stop reading this thread even though I've decided to hold off playing even once until all the story bits get hammered out. I know the last patch (or newest beta?) fixed the import issues. Actually, did this also fix the Aloth being always angry at you thing? Someone said that was an import bug where both his personalities were firing for getting mad at your PC. And any word on the issues relating to complaints I'm hearing about companion influence going up too quickly, or character personality going up too quickly? I also just wanted to thank you big old nerds who have been theorycrafting like crazy here. I'm never dedicated enough to do that work but I love reading these kinds of arguments, even if the game is easy enough that their currently a bit pointless.
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May 21, 2018 18:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think in practice that doesn't work, at least not as a pure wizard. There aren't that many passives wizards can take that are actually worth taking, and every level has at least a couple spells that aren't in most grimoires and that are pretty much universally worthwhile in almost every fight (arcane dampener, expose vulnerabilities, minoletta's anything, etc.) Yeah the meta game way would probably be taking just a few must have spells that and relying on grimoires for the rest. But until someone sits down and figures out the best grimoires to take to cover most of the useful spells it's probably gonna be better to take at least some spells.
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May 21, 2018 18:17
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If it’s at all possible they really need some sort of interface that allows you to see all available innate + grimoire spells while also allowing you to compare grimoires. Because I lost my patience for organizing that stuff about 5 minutes into the game.
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May 21, 2018 18:24
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Digital Osmosis posted:Actually, did this also fix the Aloth being always angry at you thing? No, he still has both. However, they're both positive relationship modifiers, so it doesn't negatively impact your relationships, unless the negative ones are hidden or something. I've also had neither trigger in Aloth, but I also don't regularly keep him in my party because Aloth. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Grimoires also mean that dual class wizards lose a lot less versatility than you'd think vs. single-class wizzies. Maia can do 90% of Aloth's job if you grimoire-optimize, while also taking plenty of ranger abilities. My issue with Maia Geomancer is that she spends a lot of the fight casting poo poo and not really shooting poo poo, to the extent that a Wizard is just better. Maybe this is just the way I have my AI scripts set up to dedicate to debuffing and crowd controlling (e.g., Confusion, Exposed Vulnerabilities, that Foe AOE Blindness), while Ishiza just goes on autoattack and hopefully doesn't die, but Aloth Wizard just does all that much better. Unfortunately, Aloth's backstory is either being a counterspy or the leader of a cult dedicated to keeping the world's greatest secret, and he's still boring as gently caress (maybe not in the latter, since that's now how I have him).
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May 21, 2018 18:24
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Ginette Reno posted:Yeah the meta game way would probably be taking just a few must have spells that and relying on grimoires for the rest. But until someone sits down and figures out the best grimoires to take to cover most of the useful spells it's probably gonna be better to take at least some spells. Yeah I've been kinda working on that (see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LqO04qSRIALGehhM3GbZPJzSkbn2qMz-VTAEkF-9ZSg/edit?usp=sharing , see sheet 3) but its dependent on getting a huge list of what's in each grimoire. One possibility would be Melee Maia with https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Llengrath%27s_Martial_Masteries
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May 21, 2018 18:32
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The Doomhammer posted:You've reached a point where you need to advance the main quest before the next faction quest will unlock Thanks. It's been tripping me up since the animancers quest has just been sitting there since forever. They really needed to just send you a missive like others do, with "Hey, come to the tower we have tests to run for science."
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May 21, 2018 18:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Grimoires also mean that dual class wizards lose a lot less versatility than you'd think vs. single-class wizzies. Maia can do 90% of Aloth's job if you grimoire-optimize, while also taking plenty of ranger abilities. It's also worth noting that switching grimoires doesn't cause recovery time, but just puts a small cooldown on your spells so you can use the time to do other-class stuff like shoot a guy.
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May 21, 2018 18:40
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I want to second or third adding characters builds to the OP. Especially fun, quirky or downright broken ones. After this playthrough, I'm doing an Everything Bad run and I want to optimize my murder party using adventurers with specific builds to maximize destruction. A link or list would be real handy for that.
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May 21, 2018 18:41
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Is there any point to outfitting the rest of my crew with good weapons and armor? Will it affect their performance in boarding battles?
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May 21, 2018 18:54
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Azran posted:Is there any point to outfitting the rest of my crew with good weapons and armor? Will it affect their performance in boarding battles? Yeah, that's about it though.
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May 21, 2018 18:55
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Ginette Reno posted:No? They're just bonus spells. I think someone reported upthread that right now if you don’t take at least one spell of a given level then you can’t cast that level from a grimoire either. Probably a bug, but it could take a while to get fixed.
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May 21, 2018 18:56
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Having just finished the game (no faction because I was impatient and overleveled, was largely pro-Huana otherwise), I think that the treatment of godlikes was probably the most well-crafted part it. Pallegina and Tekehu are clearly mirrors of each other in just about every way, but they strike a good balance between being (consciously) representatives of their people and being their own characters. Where the Dyrwood was an abandoned, questioning land where aggressive anti-theists like Pallegina could fit right in, Deadfire is basically the 24/7 Ondra show ft. Eothas. Being a godlike isn’t generally grounds for lynching here! It’s a fun synergy w/ the capricious nature of naval life and the Watcher’s own awareness of the Divine Comedy. Also, fish mother does a vastly better job than bird mother, just putting that out there.
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May 21, 2018 18:56
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah I've been kinda working on that (see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LqO04qSRIALGehhM3GbZPJzSkbn2qMz-VTAEkF-9ZSg/edit?usp=sharing , see sheet 3) but its dependent on getting a huge list of what's in each grimoire. Holy poo poo Martial Power looks bonkers
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May 21, 2018 18:58
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