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Clocks posted:She, and from the last page, but the numbers I gave weren't per month, they were over however long I played the game for (usually around 6mo or more). I agree if I was dropping like $3k per month on a game that would definitely throw me farther into the whale stratosphere but a few hundred or so isn't much worse than other disposable income stories I've heard. You can't redefine what a whale is because you feel self conscious for spending thousands on freemium mobile games. You are by every definition a whale. The fact someone, somewhere, at some point spent more money than you is a pointless argument to make. Clocks posted:This is a common misconception. I'm not a whale by any means but I've dropped hundreds if not $1-3k on various mobile or f2p games (each, not total). To me it's disposable income. VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 06:15 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 06:10
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Like I guess spending on virtual pixels is pathetic but the guys spending $20k a year on their aquariums are cool. Or the guy who bought an $80k sound system from savings (and is now divorced lmao). Oh wait, it's almost as if anyone can go overboard on hobbies and it's the degree and control to which it matters.
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VictorianQueerLit posted:You can't redefine what a whale is because you feel self conscious for spending thousands on freemium mobile games. You are by every definition a whale. The definition of "whale" varies from person to person and company to company. By my standards, anything less than 10k total spend probably isn't a whale. Whales are the folks that drop double or triple digits lifetime spend in terms of thousands of dollars. And yeah, it's basically just people spending money on a hobby that makes them happy. Whales don't tend to think of "gaming" as their hobby, they think of "Hero Royale" or whatever the specific game(s) they play as their hobby. Take however much you spend on gaming each year, that's how they see putting that money towards a single game. Practically all whales also just have absurd amounts of money. Like, they own vacation homes and yachts sort of poo poo. Many of them are wealthy entrepreneurs or business owners or investors. To them dumping a few grand on anything is no big deal. I guess you could make the argument that they're spending all that money on a video game instead of a real physical thing, but then with how popular digital downloads are via steam then that argument kind of applies to gaming as a whole. Of course you can always lol at the idea of spending any amount of money on games in general.
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May 29, 2018 06:20
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Dr.Smasher posted:For $27,000 American dollars, I could buy any number of used sports cars. I could donate it to charity and help the sick, or homeless. $27,000 American dollars would wipe out every bill I have save for the house payment. Also, a used sports car is something that actually exists in reality, and which if things went south you could potentially sell and get much of that $27,000 back. Hang on to it and it might actually appreciate in value. The market for sports cars might fluctuate up and down a bit, but that sportscar is going to continue to exist and, unless you get drunk and wrap it around a tree, continue to have intrinsic value with zero chance of suddenly being worthless. Star Citizen jpegs are going to have a value of $0 in 2-5 years. Or sooner that that.
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May 29, 2018 06:21
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CodfishCartographer posted:The definition of "whale" varies from person to person and company to company. By my standards, anything less than 10k total spend probably isn't a whale. Whales are the folks that drop double or triple digits lifetime spend in terms of thousands of dollars. I just don't understand why anyone would do it at all. It's not like there is a lack of video games out there. There are tens of thousands of games you can play on your phone that cost like $0.99. freemium games are always such trash too, they are not even good games. lovely farming sims or puzzle games or poorly balanced Diablo clones I play games on my phone too, something like andriod dominion costs nothing! or pokemon on an emulator. why do people pay so much money to play these things when there is so much variety to choose from? it boggles the mind
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May 29, 2018 06:32
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Rutibex posted:I just don't understand why anyone would do it at all. It's not like there is a lack of video games out there. There are tens of thousands of games you can play on your phone that cost like $0.99. freemium games are always such trash too, they are not even good games. lovely farming sims or puzzle games or poorly balanced Diablo clones Because they like the game. Like that's it, it's not that complicated my dude. There are tens of thousands of games on PC, but people still pay monthly to play WoW, and people have been playing Dota for fifteen years now. Some people just like sticking with one game. I will say most people won't play any mobile game that requires an up-front payment because if it turns out to be crap, well you're SOL. That's why F2P is so popular on mobile games, because most people just won't ever even try your game if it costs money to download at all. Gotta pay the bills somehow. You could just say to put ads in the game then, but people hate ads and between a game with ads and a game without, they'll usually go with the game without. And at that point it's F2P or bust.
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May 29, 2018 06:38
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Clocks posted:This is a common misconception. I'm not a whale by any means but I've dropped hundreds if not $1-3k on various mobile or f2p games (each, not total). To me it's disposable income. Gambling IRL I have zero interest in. Last time I was at a casino I played no games, spun no slots. If I'm not having fun playing a game I just stop playing it instead of falling for sunk cost fallacy. for $1-3k american cash dollars i will let you call me up at any moment and demand an entertaining story on the spot. i will double the return on enjoyment-investment you get from games guaranteed or i'll let you give me more money to try again. i am dead rear end serious, it's small potatoes to you but three thousand god drat dollars would help me feed and house the quasi-sapient swarm of beetles my wife breeds. An entertaining story at any moment of any day. Think about it.
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May 29, 2018 06:44
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like holy poo poo people who spend money on videogames, do you not know any artists? do you not know a single creative person who could take your money and provide more entertainment than ScreenTappy 69. three thousand dollars is more budget than most arthouse movies have. pay your creative friends first. edit- yo gently caress it this offer is open to anyone, send me money for stories on demand, read through the dulcet tones of my soothing voice.
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May 29, 2018 06:46
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CodfishCartographer posted:The definition of "whale" varies from person to person and company to company. By my standards, anything less than 10k total spend probably isn't a whale. Whales are the folks that drop double or triple digits lifetime spend in terms of thousands of dollars. I'll give whales of those Free 2 Play games this: At least they're paying for an experience that they know they're going to get. One of those rich nerds could argue that paying thousands of dollars to get in-game goods gives them the same amount of joy that they'd get from the experience of going on an expensive vacation somewhere or some other fleeting experience that's not an exchange for tangible goods. There's nothing really wrong with that, other than the fact that the vast majority of people would think that there's about a hundred different ways that you could blow thousands of dollars that would be more fun than blowing it on "Hero Royale" or whatever. But hey, it's their money, and "fun" is subjective. The difference is that Star Citizen whales are paying tens of thousands of dollars just for the promise that they'll have a wonderful time with their digital goods in the future when the game actually comes out. Anyone who wasn't deluded would realize that, even if CIG was a competent and non-scammy company, that there'd still be a very real chance that the project might fall far short of expectations or even be cancelled altogether. It's not comparable to making a risky investment either, because they're not investing anything, in an investment (or a gamble) you're spending money for the chance that you might make back more money than you put in. This is just spending. I struggle to think of anything comparable, other than maybe buying thousands of dollars worth of cocaine from a shady dealer who you know beforehand might actually be selling you piles of baking soda.
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May 29, 2018 06:47
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Sucrose posted:I'll give whales of those Free 2 Play games this: At least they're paying for an experience that they know they're going to get. One of those rich nerds could argue that paying thousands of dollars to get in-game goods gives them the same amount of joy that they'd get from the experience of going on an expensive vacation somewhere or some other fleeting experience that's not an exchange for tangible goods. There's nothing really wrong with that, other than the fact that the vast majority of people would think that there's about a hundred different ways that you could blow thousands of dollars that would be more fun than blowing it on "Hero Royale" or whatever. But hey, it's their money, and "fun" is subjective. Oh absolutely. I want to clarify: I in no way support or condone the poo poo SC pulls. It's loving horrible and manipulative. Chris Roberts definitely knows the game is never getting made, and him still taking money from people is him practically stealing it from them.
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May 29, 2018 07:08
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:like holy poo poo people who spend money on videogames, do you not know any artists? do you not know a single creative person who could take your money and provide more entertainment than ScreenTappy 69. three thousand dollars is more budget than most arthouse movies have. Hey PK friendly reminder that video game makers are artists. Not to poo poo on you too hard but a games studio is made up of creative folks who want to get paid for their work and are fortunate enough to be riding the zeitgeist of what people are paying a decent amount of money for. Path of Exile is monetised entirely through donations and it explicitly calls its big money options "supporter packs" because games are a colossal effort to create and maintain and the work that y'all are aware of is the tip of the iceberg. I know one of the lead character artists at that studio and the amount of effort he puts into tiny animation details is unbelievable. I'm glad he's getting paid for his work. You might not like Steppy Tap or whatever, that's cool, but some rear end in a top hat, or more likely a team of assholes, spent months making that poo poo.
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May 29, 2018 07:09
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:like holy poo poo people who spend money on videogames, do you not know any artists? do you not know a single creative person who could take your money and provide more entertainment than ScreenTappy 69. three thousand dollars is more budget than most arthouse movies have. Friend, if you can create and program a big titty video game that incorporates my oculus rift and cyber pocket pussy, I will gladly pay you $9.99 for that. Until then, I will simply play Senran Kagura one-handed. 
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May 29, 2018 07:19
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Somfin posted:Hey PK friendly reminder that video game makers are artists. some video game makers are artists, sure. some people who make those fake vintage signs at Lowe's are also artists. phone tap games are not art worth supporting, even if it's the only opportunity that pays a living wage. edit- like, literally every other variety of artist has to find a non-art support for their pursuits, video game programmers don't deserve special support because they have to make lovely capitalistic orphan-grinders cuz nothing else pays. we turn on musicians when they sell out, why is curt shilling special?
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May 29, 2018 07:23
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Somfin posted:Hey PK friendly reminder that video game makers are artists. Point being that not all games are worth supporting. We would get better art if money was spend sparingly. The cost of making that art piece should rely on quality of art not on the cost of the artist. (also path of exile is cool and good)
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May 29, 2018 07:54
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CodfishCartographer posted:The definition of "whale" varies from person to person and company to company. By my standards, anything less than 10k total spend probably isn't a whale. Whales are the folks that drop double or triple digits lifetime spend in terms of thousands of dollars. By your standards, yes. Working with these people every day might be influencing your thinking here. You realize you are saying that people spending around $10,000 on a freemium mobile game are not whales. I think you are just used to the big numbers. A whale is the type of customer, the 0.15%, that are responsible for 50% of all purchases by dramatically overpurchasing. It doesn't matter if there are bigger whales, it doesn't matter if they can afford it. People spending thousands of dollars on any single video game are whales by definition.
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May 29, 2018 08:35
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:some video game makers are artists, sure. some people who make those fake vintage signs at Lowe's are also artists. phone tap games are not art worth supporting, even if it's the only opportunity that pays a living wage. Am I to take it you think that children's books ain't real work either?
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May 29, 2018 08:36
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lol if you think any of the drones reskinning Candy Crush at Zynga were artists.
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May 29, 2018 11:00
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Razorwired posted:lol if you think any of the drones reskinning Candy Crush at Zynga were artists. candy crush is just a reskin of Bejeweled, which is just a lovely version of Columns for the genesis
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May 29, 2018 12:01
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Razorwired posted:lol if you think any of the drones reskinning Candy Crush at Zynga were artists. Yo, they actually were. I'm sure 99% of them knew what they were making was kind of schlock, but it's schlock that makes money and a big wig told them to make it, and that big wig writes their checks.
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May 29, 2018 14:05
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Lmao if you think your job has to be quality or have meaning. Whatevee gets that filthy lucre. In that regard  has it right.Double lmao at spending 1-3k per X games. 5 games at that average and you're at that magical 10k number. You are still a whale, you just got butchered at the port and divided up to make diabetic perfume.
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May 29, 2018 14:28
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:like holy poo poo people who spend money on videogames, do you not know any artists? do you not know a single creative person who could take your money and provide more entertainment than ScreenTappy 69. three thousand dollars is more budget than most arthouse movies have. Yes, but with ScreenTappy 69 I have the ability to plug my brain into a slightly immersive Skinner box that lights up all of the lizard brain centers. Why would I pay 300-1800 USD for some art school dropout to make yet another black and white blown up picture of a manhole cover? Art is just self serving ego masturbation on either side of the transaction.
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May 29, 2018 14:28
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Opening Play Store is pretty much like entering the Louvre
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May 29, 2018 14:38
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Somfin posted:Am I to take it you think that children's books ain't real work either? Also this. Most mobile games like Steppy Tap or Candy Smash or whatever aren't really intended for gamers. They intentionally have very simplistic gameplay since most of the people that the creators intend to play them aren't particularly familiar with games.
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May 29, 2018 14:41
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It's my understanding that many of the games that hook the biggest whales, especially the whales who really can't afford it, are the multiplayer games where people are either buying poo poo which helps their guild/clan/team, or need to buy stuff for their own character so it can keep up with those of their team. There's often a huge amount of buying "friends" and a huge amount of pressure and guilt involved where not spending money feels like letting people down. This taps directly into the psyches of folks with poor social skills and/or very low self esteem who aren't getting that buzz of appreciation in their day to day lives.
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May 29, 2018 14:59
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Somfin posted:Am I to take it you think that children's books ain't real work either? as someone who writes children's and young adult books, holy gently caress lmao this isn't real work. maybe the artists who have to deal with the utter tripe i pump into the world, that's work, but nooooooooooo. i don't expect special treatment for my by-the-pound vampire roleplay fanfic, why does john romero get excused from the moral ramification of making daikatana to pay the bills?
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May 29, 2018 15:23
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:as someone who writes children's and young adult books, holy gently caress lmao this isn't real work. maybe the artists who have to deal with the utter tripe i pump into the world, that's work, but nooooooooooo. i don't expect special treatment for my by-the-pound vampire roleplay fanfic, why does john romero get excused from the moral ramification of making daikatana to pay the bills?
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May 29, 2018 15:25
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I respect storytelling personally and I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to attempt to create new ways to tell stories. Interactive Fiction, for example, can do things a traditional novel can't. There is a lot of potential in fiction that is interactive with its reader. Most video games don't even attempt to tell good stories they're just vehicles for stylized violence but that is life. The potential is still there and there are creative people doing creative things in the medium they're just not getting ads on television.
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May 29, 2018 15:29
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"games are/n't art!" i scream repeatedly into the void in the thread where we talk about $28,000 .zip files
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May 29, 2018 15:33
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maybe one of you intellectual sorts could tackle the hot button issue of ethics in game journalism next since we're so keen on covering new ground here
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May 29, 2018 15:33
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food court bailiff posted:"games are/n't art!" i scream repeatedly into the void in the thread where we talk about $28,000 .zip files bitch ill talk about whatever I want
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May 29, 2018 15:37
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Fatkraken posted:. Imagine having so much money that it aint no thing to drop thousands on some poo poo mobile game, yet despite all that wealth your social life sucks so bad that you're driven to buying "friends" through online purchases. lol
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May 29, 2018 16:08
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food court bailiff posted:maybe one of you intellectual sorts could tackle the hot button issue of ethics in game journalism next since we're so keen on covering new ground here *puffs pipe* games are bad
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May 29, 2018 16:26
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Jim Barris posted:I respect storytelling personally and I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to attempt to create new ways to tell stories. Interactive Fiction, for example, can do things a traditional novel can't. There is a lot of potential in fiction that is interactive with its reader. Most video games don't even attempt to tell good stories they're just vehicles for stylized violence but that is life. The potential is still there and there are creative people doing creative things in the medium they're just not getting ads on television. i have 100% been criticizing the fact that games stoop to being vehicles for stylized violence, or vehicles for turning taps into dollars, and saying videogames aren't immune to criticism because they're the same kind of sellout that plagues every other form of art/entertainment. i don't quite get what you're disagreeing with
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May 29, 2018 16:33
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So how long before this whole scheme comes crashing down? They must have millions in the bank still but things like this and the land sale stuff seem way more desperate than before. I'll guess 3 years until the game releases 1.0 or the assets are sold to some Chinese MMO company for like $100k Convex fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 29, 2018 |
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May 29, 2018 16:38
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:i have 100% been criticizing the fact that games stoop to being vehicles for stylized violence, or vehicles for turning taps into dollars, and saying videogames aren't immune to criticism because they're the same kind of sellout that plagues every other form of art/entertainment.
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May 29, 2018 16:43
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Jim Barris posted:I'm not disagreeing with anything you said I just wanted to state that despite the tripe we're handed there is rich potential there. So actually I think we're in total agreement that video games need to get their poo poo together. yes agreed. i want to know this: if it's all a scam to line assface's pockets, why run 4 simultaneous studios? that seems like a level of commitment which could only be earnest?
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May 29, 2018 16:45
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:yes agreed. Even if he sees it all as a scam his ego demands that it'd be the most ostentatious scam possible.
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May 29, 2018 16:51
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Clocks posted:This is a common misconception. I'm not a whale by any means but I've dropped hundreds if not $1-3k on various mobile or f2p games (each, not total). To me it's disposable income. Gambling IRL I have zero interest in. Last time I was at a casino I played no games, spun no slots. If I'm not having fun playing a game I just stop playing it instead of falling for sunk cost fallacy. This dude spent 3 grand on Mafia Wars
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May 29, 2018 16:52
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:yes agreed. 4 studios means 4 of his friends can be paid $100k+ to run said studios. he cant just take the money for himself, to steal it legally he has to give himself and his friends and family high salaries and drag the development process on as long as possible
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May 29, 2018 16:57
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🐳 posted:This is a common misconception. I'm not a whale by any means but I've dropped hundreds if not $1-3k on various mobile or f2p games (each, not total). To me it's disposable income. 🐳 🐳 🐳 🐳 🐳 🐳 🐳 🐳
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May 29, 2018 17:03
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:yes agreed. As long as running those four studios doesn't stop them from being profitable (which so far it hasn't) the benefit of making idiot fuckfaces think he's making the game outweighs the cost of having the studios open. Plus, it lets Chris "A Thumb in a Turtleneck" Roberts get to play "Master Game Director" and do things like shoot endless hours of motion capture. Ultimately, the thing that will determine whether or not Star Citizen was a scam is whether or not Chris Roberts knows he's promising things his team can't deliver. That might not even be the case - there's every possibility that he has huffed his own farts for so long he genuinely thinks this is all possible.
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May 29, 2018 17:04
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