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Yeah, Phil was being both genuine while still working the relationship as he would any other one. They are very good spies.
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May 31, 2018 21:12
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esperterra posted:Also can I just say I legit got goosebumps when Arkady and the Jennings finally, silently met face to face. I read a review that said they've met before in season 2, apparently. But I can't remember it...season 2 was by far the weakest season, anyways. Probably time for a rewatch 
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May 31, 2018 21:24
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mr. unhsib posted:I read a review that said they've met before in season 2, apparently. But I can't remember it...season 2 was by far the weakest season, anyways. Phillip met Arkady in a bookstore to tell them not to pursue Paige.
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May 31, 2018 21:26
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mr. unhsib posted:I read a review that said they've met before in season 2, apparently. But I can't remember it...season 2 was by far the weakest season, anyways. Season 3 and 5 were real weak. Season 2 was good until the hilariously bad finale in which the kid spouted exposition for 5 minutes after getting shot in the throat.
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May 31, 2018 21:32
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80k posted:Phillip met Arkady in a bookstore to tell them not to pursue Paige. Philip stalked Arkady in a bookstore and threatened him, in disguise, iirc.
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May 31, 2018 21:33
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This was overall a weak final season and everything was resolved far too easily considering the stakes.I'm especially disappointed that they didn't bring the Phil/Liz conflict to a different place and just went with "they love each other afterall and get along in the end". There was a lot of dramatic potential with them, the kids and Stan and it really wasn't taken advantage of.
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May 31, 2018 21:35
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Part of that was also Phillip playing Stan. Stan very much wanted to believe they were still good people deep down. If he had proof they actually murdered a shitload of people, I don't think that garage scene would have gone the same way. I'm okay with Stan letting them go but I just don't buy it. I figured he'd call it in right after - so they'd still get captured. He's gonna be even more pissed once he figures out how many bodies they've actually dropped (including his former partner).
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May 31, 2018 22:31
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Keyser_Soze posted:I'm okay with Stan letting them go but I just don't buy it. I figured he'd call it in right after - so they'd still get captured. He's gonna be even more pissed once he figures out how many bodies they've actually dropped (including his former partner). It is a little unbelievable, since one of his suspicions was that they were at Chicago a few days ago where 2 agents were killed. Stan just wanted a friend 
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May 31, 2018 22:33
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sportsgenius86 posted:Stan lost his best friend and now either has to live with not knowing whether his wife is a spy or try to find out and risk being lonely again. I was thinking about this today, and it strikes me that this is only really left ambiguous for the viewers. The sleeper agents like Phillip and Elizabeth had good covers, sure, but there were telltale signs that Stan had started to pick up on -- they keep odd hours, they have no extended family, there isn't much record of them existing prior to infiltration, etc. Hell, one of the reasons they wanted to turn Paige into an agent was that, since she was an actual native-born American, she'd have a real background that could pass official scrutiny. It strikes me that, if Stan had any doubts, he could certainly check and see what Renee's extended family looks like, if she's listed in the yearbook for the high school she supposedly graduated from, if she has any record of childhood parking tickets or whatever. It sucks that WE didn't get to find out for sure, but Stan is perfectly capable of getting to the bottom of it if he wants to. The sleeper agent cover isn't going to hold up under any real investigation. At the time I thought "Man, that's a nasty parting shot to leave Stan with", but really I think Phil was just saying "hey, make sure you check her out."
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May 31, 2018 22:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It is a little unbelievable, since one of his suspicions was that they were at Chicago a few days ago where 2 agents were killed. Once again I have to ask why Stan did not imediately think the headless/handless corpse was the woman they were looking for? In retrospect you would think Liz would have been easy to ID with the lip thing going on. "She is a very attractive (unless furious) woman, but has a quite noticeable odd bump on her upper lip"
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May 31, 2018 22:43
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TheCenturion posted:Just remember, the entire episode was one big, long, protracted death scene; the death of the Jennings; as a family, and as their entire identities. I look at it another way: This was the happiest possible outcome for everyone involved, and that alone shows just how completely hosed Mikhail and Nadezhda were starting from the exact moment they set foot in a KGB recruitment office.
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May 31, 2018 23:50
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Phenotype posted:At the time I thought "Man, that's a nasty parting shot to leave Stan with", but really I think Phil was just saying "hey, make sure you check her out." Yeah I could see how it could come across as a parting shot if you weren't super aware of the relationship they had built up or if Elizabeth had said it since she tends to be the more antagonistic of the two, but Philip just struck me as genuinely having a connection with Stan as a friend and caring about him as a person. He even starts out by saying he doesn't really know how to put it. gently caress, that whole scene was amazing.
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May 31, 2018 23:57
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I didn't mean that he was actually trying to hurt Stan with it. I initially thought it was just going to poison Stan's relationship with her because now he'll always have doubts, but really he won't always have doubts, he'd be able to figure that out pretty easily.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:06
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LinkesAuge posted:This was overall a weak final season and everything was resolved far too easily considering the stakes.I'm especially disappointed that they didn't bring the Phil/Liz conflict to a different place and just went with "they love each other afterall and get along in the end". There was a lot of dramatic potential with them, the kids and Stan and it really wasn't taken advantage of. I mean, that kind of happened early in the season with Philip cutting off Kimmy and beating the crap out of Paige. It ended with him going to Chicago to bail out Elizabeth. The point of this whole show is the bond between the two - the first (and for the longest time, only) compromise Philip and Elizabeth made in their spycraft was to make their cover marriage real. In that context, Philip and Elizabeth outright fighting would require a LOT of tearing down, then building back up. Not to say that it wasn't an option, but it was never going to happen in the context of one episode.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:07
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I don't think he "beat the crap out of Paige," but rather did just enough to demonstrate that he was more than she was making him out to be. And that's an important lesson. That scene reminded me of the time Liz tried to stick that guy with a syringe in the men's bathroom and nearly got beaten to death. She overestimated herself and underestimated her opponent - the only thing that saved her was her plot armor.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:10
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My favorite part of the garage scene was when Stan became speechless at the end of his interaction with the Jennings. You could see how helpless he was. One after another, he realized he was letting them go, they were getting into the car, he has to take care of Henry, and yes, Henry loves him, and Renee might be a Russian, and yes, he is going to stand aside as the car goes by. What a crazy couple of minutes.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:10
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Phenotype posted:I didn't mean that he was actually trying to hurt Stan with it. I initially thought it was just going to poison Stan's relationship with her because now he'll always have doubts, but really he won't always have doubts, he'd be able to figure that out pretty easily. Oh sorry, I knew what you meant, I just phrased my post poorly. I was basically just saying how it could only come across that way if you didn't really follow that relationship arc and it's a hard thing to tell Stan no matter what angle you're coming from.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:14
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BIG HEADLINE posted:That scene reminded me of the time Liz tried to stick that guy with a syringe in the men's bathroom and nearly got beaten to death. She overestimated herself and underestimated her opponent - the only thing that saved her was her plot armor. I just hit that episode on a rewatch -- the guy sees the syringe behind him in the bathroom mirror and catches her offguard by fighting back. I wouldn't say it was her plot armor though, Phillip was waiting just outside the bathroom window to help if she was in real trouble.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:16
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I don't think he "beat the crap out of Paige," but rather did just enough to demonstrate that he was more than she was making him out to be. And that's an important lesson. Philip wasn't doing that to Paige for himself, he did it to demonstrate that despite hurting those 2 drunk guys in a bar, her combat skills aren't close to ready to be used in the field, causing her to doubt herself. "Beat the crap" was probably the wrong term, but it was a moment in which he acted against Elizabeth's intentions for Paige. mr. unhsib fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 00:32
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I was half expecting them to drive through the Berlin Wall while it was being torn down. I dont know when the episode was supposed to take place but it could well have been 89. It would have made for a more hopeful ending. Theyd know that their work led to the world becoming a better place, and that theyre bringing a bit of the West back with them.
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Jun 1, 2018 00:55
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Love leaving America and eating American hamburgers only to go back to Russian poopcabbage. All in all, a great series, unlike anything I've watched in recent memory. Not without it's warts but going to binge the series through again soon.
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Jun 1, 2018 01:21
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re: the parking garage scene, I know Philip was trying to be a genuine frind telling Stan that he was pretty sure Renee was a spy, but is that better or worse than just not saying anything? I mean on one hand I can see the whole "I know you hate me no matter what but I still care about you and don't want you to get hurt more" angle, but on the other hand, if she isn't an agent, it just fucks Stan up even more.
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Jun 1, 2018 01:21
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Loved the finale, loved the show. One of my favourites of all time. I was half-expecting Renee to come out of nowhere and pop Stan in the back of the head in the garage, glad that didn't happen. Also wtf @ Rhys' real accent, I had no idea he was Welsh. Also had no idea they were a real couple with a kid wtf wtf real life is more terrifying than the show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWd30imxB2U
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Jun 1, 2018 01:36
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Raere posted:I was half expecting them to drive through the Berlin Wall while it was being torn down. I dont know when the episode was supposed to take place but it could well have been 89. This entire season took place in the fall/winter of 1987.
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Jun 1, 2018 01:58
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This interview with the creators is great. https://uproxx.com/sepinwall/the-americans-finale-interview-creators-spoilers/
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Jun 1, 2018 02:00
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Goddamn that garage scene was the most heart wrenching/amazing thing. "You were my only friend in my whole lovely life" loving heartbreaking
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Jun 1, 2018 02:09
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GobiasIndustries posted:re: the parking garage scene, I know Philip was trying to be a genuine frind telling Stan that he was pretty sure Renee was a spy, but is that better or worse than just not saying anything? I mean on one hand I can see the whole "I know you hate me no matter what but I still care about you and don't want you to get hurt more" angle, but on the other hand, if she isn't an agent, it just fucks Stan up even more. This is what I was talking about in my last couple posts though -- that was my initial reaction too, but if you think about it, it'll take Stan a day or two to call Renee's old high school and see if there's any trace of her, look up her parents and extended family, etc. There's no way a Russian sleeper agent's cover is going to hold up under serious scrutiny. Phillip was definitely doing him a solid there. Either she wasn't an agent or she was and Stan had her arrested a couple days after the finale episode.
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Jun 1, 2018 02:19
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Also wtf @ Rhys' real accent, I had no idea he was Welsh. Also had no idea they were a real couple with a kid wtf wtf real life is more terrifying than the show They hooked up because of the show. Just like the couple they portrayed they started out fake married and then got real married
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Jun 1, 2018 02:25
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Handsome Ralph posted:This interview with the creators is great. Speaking of more fallout, how much did you think through past the events of the finale? Do you know what happens to Stans career, what happens to Paige, what happens to Henry, what happens to Mischa and Martha and everybody else who is still in play after this story is over? Weisberg: What I would say is that we have a sense of possible feelings and directions that all those people might be headed. Which I dont think we want to talk about, because its very important to us that every person watching this be able to let their own imagination go where it will on that. This is a cop out, and every showrunner pulls it. "Oh, we want to leave it to the viewer to decide that." Dude, this is your story. I already have an imagination. But you're the ones who actually made the show, you tell me where the characters are going. I really wish that people for once would sit down, after the show airs, and pull back the curtain and be like "actually, we had this 7 page outline of background for Renee, and here's the outline of where we saw Paige going, which explains why she got off the train, and here's how Henry really took the news..." etc. I just think "we'll leave that up to you to decide" is dangerously close to "we couldn't figure it out either, so we'll deflect from it." e: That being said, here's an episode with Holly Taylor about where she sees Paige going after the finale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwIuujZWKZ8
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Jun 1, 2018 02:25
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sportsgenius86 posted:It's the pre-show background we have on Stan that makes the whole garage thing make sense. Yes, specifically him saying "I had a job to do", which no doubt brought back Stan's PTSD from when he had to do terrible things to keep his cover with the Nazis. The more I think about it, the more happy I am. Finale was almost flawless (would have been a flawless victory if they had picked something besides "With or Without You", I would have even accepted "One" despite it being off-time period).
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Jun 1, 2018 03:01
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:This is a cop out, and every showrunner pulls it. "Oh, we want to leave it to the viewer to decide that." Dude, this is your story. I already have an imagination. But you're the ones who actually made the show, you tell me where the characters are going. I really wish that people for once would sit down, after the show airs, and pull back the curtain and be like "actually, we had this 7 page outline of background for Renee, and here's the outline of where we saw Paige going, which explains why she got off the train, and here's how Henry really took the news..." etc. I just think "we'll leave that up to you to decide" is dangerously close to "we couldn't figure it out either, so we'll deflect from it." I totally get where you're coming from, and there are some shows that are super guilty of this that deserve to be taken to task for it (looking at you The Sopranos), but I agree with them here. I think they gave us enough info to let our imaginations make our own conclusions about where everyone ended up, and I found the ending more enjoyable that way. Certainly get the feeling that it'd be nice to know where they are now, but it wouldn't really add much to the series as a whole.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:07
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DarklyDreaming posted:They hooked up because of the show. Just like the couple they portrayed they started out fake married and then got real married That's the best part.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:23
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I had never cried because of a piece of fiction before. This changed with this finale.
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Jun 1, 2018 03:54
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Great finale!. I think I audibly made a noise when Elizabeth spots Paige outside the train. That dream sequence was also  . Arguing with Paige in her apartment seemed out of place. With them being her parents, I thought they would have said well talk about it in the car, or yes, were getting Henry, just get in the car Philip mentioning Renee may be a spy might seem like a dick move, or at least something ambiguous, but Ive taken it that its something hes worried about since she showed up and he coming from a good place when he warned him. Paige has shown time and again shes not made for spy work, so I disagree that she has any chance of surviving more than a day without getting picked up. Lying to the FBI about what she knows or minimizing her involvement also isnt happening, but were getting into fanfic territory here. I took Paige getting off the train as her choosing to stay for Henry. She knows whats coming, but knows she will ultimately survive. I dont like to think about what happens to Stan, with what hes been through and the scrutiny thats about to come down on him, but I like to think he holds it together for Henry gently caress, that episode was something. Im going to miss that show
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Jun 1, 2018 04:07
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Considering that last shot of Renee, I don't think it's ambiguous anymore. She's a spy. Philip was just following the Bro Code.
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Jun 1, 2018 04:14
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Probably the most emotionally satisfying series finale I've seen since The Leftovers (I loved the Twin Peaks S3 finale too but for wildly different reasons). I loved Renee since she was introduced and I'm so glad they kept it ambiguous. I would have been disappointed if they revealed anything because I think they handled the suspense around her very well and the actress is perfect in it.
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Jun 1, 2018 04:21
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I enjoyed the episode and everyone seemed to get an actual conclusion aside from Paige. Though, I think it's fitting for Paige to be a complete moron and get off the train. What is she even going to do? She has no real training in how to lay low, she has no contacts, no ability to create a new identity with believable paperwork. She goes back to Claudia's apartment and realizes that she's completely hosed. Maybe that is a fitting end for her. Unlike all the other characters, she's the only one who has absolutely no future.
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Jun 1, 2018 04:22
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precision posted:Considering that last shot of Renee, I don't think it's ambiguous anymore. She's a spy. Philip was just following the Bro Code. Renee could also be an FBI agent (or another agency, so Stan wouldn't pick up on 'tribal customs' or there'd be less of a chance of her running into someone she knew) tasked with keeping an eye on Stan due to his past threatening of his superiors, as well as known incidents where he's been compromised. It'd explain why she's seemingly not concerned in the slightest about passing the background checks to work *at* the FBI. It'd also explain the 'steely stare' in the sense of her having her suspicions that Stan let them go. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jun 1, 2018 |
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Jun 1, 2018 04:24
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Dr.Caligari posted:That dream sequence was also Can someone explain that? I know Stan talked to that guy's friend at the fast food place but I don't remember who he was at all. And she got pregnant?
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Jun 1, 2018 04:32
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UnfortunateSexFart posted:Can someone explain that? I know Stan talked to that guy's friend at the fast food place but I don't remember who he was at all. And she got pregnant? It was implied that Liz was very active in the militant side of the Civil Rights movement/community, where she got to know (and recruited) Gregory. Gregory was her 'friend with benefits' and also her weed connection. She was sleeping with him even while she was pregnant with Paige. Wiki's got a good write-up on him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_(The_Americans)
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Jun 1, 2018 04:38
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