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I'm pretty sure they made some stealth rigging to Item Re-rolling. You cannot get +Skaven +Chaos on a charm by rerolling, 400 dust later. Noticing way too many patterns and a couple of impossible combinations. Weapon was even worse, could not roll two +Damage traits at once, period. Statistically unlikely as gently caress. And yes, I'm aware you can re-roll to the exact same thing you started with, but that's not what was happening. Not often, anyway. Not that any of that matters because their system is a good knockoff of effective Korean F2P Freemium-ness.
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Jun 3, 2018 06:01
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Lunethex posted:I'm pretty sure they made some stealth rigging to Item Re-rolling. You cannot get +Skaven +Chaos on a charm by rerolling, 400 dust later. Noticing way too many patterns and a couple of impossible combinations. Weapon was even worse, could not roll two +Damage traits at once, period. Statistically unlikely as gently caress. And yes, I'm aware you can re-roll to the exact same thing you started with, but that's not what was happening. Not often, anyway. Melee weapons can only get racial damage traits, so if +Skaven and +Chaos are mutually exclusive then that's it for them. I rolled a ranged weapon with two +Damage traits like two days ago.
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Jun 3, 2018 06:04
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Lunethex posted:I'm pretty sure they made some stealth rigging to Item Re-rolling. You cannot get +Skaven +Chaos on a charm by rerolling, 400 dust later. Noticing way too many patterns and a couple of impossible combinations. Weapon was even worse, could not roll two +Damage traits at once, period. Statistically unlikely as gently caress. And yes, I'm aware you can re-roll to the exact same thing you started with, but that's not what was happening. Not often, anyway. don't take this as gospel, just something i heard about in passing For a while in Pay Day 2, cosmetic item drop rarity was seeded via your STEAM:ID. Basically, it was impossible to get certain things because whatever whacky formula/math-poo poo they used would put your STEAM:ID as a seed value would give you a bunch of one thing like MONKEY MASK but never give you KAWAI MASK and your friend would have tons of KAWAI but no MONKEY. Nothing given Fatshark's current state of apparent circus programming practices gives me confidence they aren't doing stuff like that with re-rolls.
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Jun 3, 2018 06:26
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any random scandinavian person can push code for this game to steam because there is no QA or oversight and honestly i love it
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Jun 3, 2018 06:58
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Some people are as good or better with Sienna than they are with other classes. I've seen them. I know they exist. She is also less straightforward to play than other classes. I leave this as an exercise for the reader as to whether or not that makes her useless. I say if you don't like her, play somebody else. There's five characters, it's not a big deal.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:05
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im depressed lol posted:Just look at this poo poo that happened to me today joining an obscenely laggy host: *throws up hands in the air* Netcode!!!!!! really im not very well read on some of this poo poo so i can only guess whats up but i mean, basically, you've got some dude in an office trying to control a bunch of rats, figuring out if they're alive, dead, attacking, flinching, or calling you names, and its doing so by reading a bunch of play-by-mail reports coming in of three other people who don't know each other exist at all and in fact can only know whats going on by getting letters back from the host every once in a while to tell it whats what. Also its doing this in real time because hes an idiot maniac. Sometimes people send in letters kind of late but thats okay since this fellow can keep sending them stuff getting them to correct where they hosed up. Except he doesn't want to be too harsh about it since then you've got nonsense where a player hits a moving rat but then gets a letter back going "actually that rat was three feet to the left and also hit you twice" and that results in players assaulting the postmen with knives or however this metaphor goes. So the fellow fudges the results a bit on their end. If you say you hit a rat, he tips over the rat and whispers "vae victus" at it. If you say a rat hit you, and it glances over and notes the rat is already dead, it just kind of shrugs and goes "sure fine I guess" and knocks your health down a bit. The important thing here, is that this fellow really hates editing stuff that's already happened because that makes everything else make no amount of temporal sense for anyone, and instead just prefers to update the current situation as needed to keep everyone on the same page. One trick the fellow does is that it doesn't actually commit things to paper until it gets some kind of back and forth communication with the player. So if a player sends in a letter saying "I was hit by a rat", he sends them a letter going "You took damage", and then he waits until the player then mails back "Yes, that's what I said you rear end in a top hat". This seems inexplicably insane but its fairly useful because it helps with the fudging. The last thing the host needs to cope with is people keeping too much track of their own information or other people's information, since sometimes you'll get stuff like "I was hit by a rat", "I healed this other player", and "I shot the other player five times in the arse with my shotgun" and this means nobody actually knows whose alive or dead or whatever until the host sends them updates. Some stuff is kept track of by the players because its boring and takes up too much postage, like how much ammo they've got, their current location, whether they themselves are alive or dead. You know, minor stuff. Peace reigns, everything is fine. Until you show up. You're a disaster. You're sending in your letters like a month goddamn late. "I slew the rat with many arrows!" you write, as it notes that said rat was already off enjoying a spa treatment elsewhere after giving up after you failed to send back any "I was hit by a rat" reports. Well, goddamnit, the fellow goes, and then the rat dies. But because you're a month late, you're still pumping that rodent full of arrows, because you're not at the point in time where the rat dies. VT2 does some kind of weirdness with client side resolution with skill procs and I know thats taking a step back from this increasingly dumb metaphor but essentially it means that every time you mail in your "I hit a rat" report, you're also sending in stuff about how its healing you and making you feel cool and all sorts of stuff. And the host isn't going to send you letters telling you "no that didn't happen stop stop stop gently caress" because it has that aforementioned policy of not trying to edit the past because that's a knot of pain and suffering. Its at this point that different netcode systems have different tricks and methods for dealing with poo poo like this. VT2 doesn't seem to have much of that. Its still diligently trying to keep you happy and not rubberband you to where you're "supposed" to be because everyone hates that, but its also not going to hold your hand and play along with your fantasy that the rats are supposed to die when you shoot them instead of dying when the host informs you they're good and dead. In fact, because your postmaster is a rogue byzantine general (long story), you're having some of those letters just straight up get lost in the mail service, so you're getting instructions about how the rats move and behave that don't make any sense, and sometimes you get the "X happened" / "Because X happened, Y happened" / "Yes" exchange just breaks down because the "Yes" you sent in got eaten by a stray dog. The other players are confused and irritated because the hosts accommodations result in you teleporting around sporadically while rats suddenly fall over dead out of nowhere, you're annoyed because you've shot the same rat eight times and nothing happened except that you lost eight arrows (because you're keeping track of that yourself), and the host is increasingly just breaking down and smashing little rat pieces together in frustration trying to resolve how its supposed to deal with a rat that was supposed to be dead 27 days ago, dead 9 days ago, hitting the dwarf in the noggin 1 day ago, and currently tweeting obscene messages on the Squeakerverse. tldr: NETCOOOOOODE
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Jun 3, 2018 07:07
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https://giant.gfycat.com/VibrantMildGoral.webm
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Jun 3, 2018 07:27
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Chumping bosses in this game feels insanely good. There's always so much other guaranteed 100% nonsense parallel to boss spawns you never really feel anticlimax when a miniboss goes down in five seconds.
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Jun 3, 2018 07:47
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Playing without ranger bardin really sucks because you don't have any bombs! Played a ton tonight and 3 groups where just perplexed at why the hell there was so many bombs haha. I explained several times that it was a ranger talent but apparently no one had ever seen a ranger bardin forever, they literally thought i was an IB until that point hahaha. So dailys do accrue until you get 3, every 24 hours you get a new daily quest until you hit 3 daily quests. This means you can save up dailys for a day off and complete them when you got time which is awesome.
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Jun 3, 2018 08:35
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Playing the Shade, opened a gold box. Got a Handmaiden helm. Wasn't even a new one, it was the only one she had before this patch.
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Jun 3, 2018 10:02
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Tiler Kiwi posted:I mean this could mean the obvious read of "someone rewrote code because God told them to", but there is a grog programming term for 'religious war' that's basically about big stupid fights over stuff in your code that does nothing for performance or clarity or anything but it still results in huge petty squabbling. It can range from anything as minor as typing your method names LikeThis or likeThis, or putting curly brackets at the end of a line or on their own line, but it can also go into the horrible realm of patterns / antipatterns, ~paradigms~, and architectural methodology. So someone could have rewrote the entire combat system because NO NO WE MUST USE FUNCTIONAL PROGRAMMING INSTEAD OF OO or something even more indescribable and buzzwordy and insane and then broke everything because they actually didn't understand what the code was doing because they followed something they've only had experience with via rote memorization or theory or whatever. i went back and reviewed this as i happen to be in this discord and robin never bothered to comment on what he meant by that. from what little context there is, he did seem to mean that someone rewrote a bunch of damage poo poo because it 'looked better' or something similarly dumb, and he's still not really pleased with the state of things. he actually spends a nontrivial amount of time bitching about the state of the game in that discord - the bug that i reported with regard to the volley bow that affects a few other weapons caused a ten minute tirade, too (that bug still isn't fixed). im depressed lol posted:don't take this as gospel, just something i heard about in passing
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Jun 3, 2018 10:28
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Fishstick posted:Oh is it that part of the thread again Why does it always get so weird and meta
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Jun 3, 2018 11:28
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Tiler Kiwi posted:*throws up hands in the air* Netcode!!!!!! This is one of the greatest posts in the thread and I thank you for your endless Rat Fight contributions Sir Kiwi (HA-HA-hAH).
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Jun 3, 2018 12:23
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Coolguye posted:i played pd2 since release and at no point was this ever true, and there is zero evidence that it is true in this game. what you are thinking of is fundamental flaws in PD2's RNG algorithm at launch that made certain things disproportionately likely, but that was true for everyone. the streakiness of the RNG in this game that is observable through the "25% chance of dupe" events happening 4 times in a row with alarming regularity is an actual parallel. Beautiful. As anemic as WHC can feel sometimes, nothing's quite as satisfying as screaming YOUR CRIME IS YOUR FOUL EXISTENCE! THE SENTENCE IS DEATH! and watching this enormous threat just cower in fear into a river.
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Jun 3, 2018 12:41
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Pushing bosses off the map is half the reason why I play Foot Knight, it's incredibly satisfying. See? https://i.imgur.com/h3nw2BI.mp4 lol jk thanks fatshark
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Jun 3, 2018 14:58
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/268902070 Double triumph in twitch integration Lunethex fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 15:03
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Two games in a row lost to connection issues, can we get dedicated servers
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Jun 3, 2018 15:41
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 Is.. Cousin Okra proud of me yet? Can I finally die in peace? Tell my wife... to.. git gud.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:07
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Dedicated servers are probably stuck in development hell. The following is pure, baseless speculation on my part: I bet Fatshark has realized if they just quickly ported over how the games runs currently you'd end up with 4 players with a lovely experience in anything but the best, low latency scenarios. Compare that to the current, working (kind of?) hosting system where at least the host will have a decent experience and is "grounded" (aka has host advantage) relative to the loose reality the clients have of the current game state. At least I hope they are. This game is all kinds of fun, but you have to put up with/almost become an apologist for some serious bullshit. Properly implement dedicated server support could really turn this game into something even bigger than it is now, since right now it's like 80% fun and 20% 'oh great, something entirely out of my control beyond the gameplay ended my run 3/4 in'.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:10
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Fuuka Ayase posted:
Beautiful Fire Wai-fu you got there.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:11
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That was unreasonably hard to get only because everyone refuses to do Skittergate. Just don't ask why I got the legend outfit for the most poo poo class in the game first. Also don't ask if I'll bother to do others. I won't.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:14
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I've been looking forward to the pub grind to getting the Black Battle Wiz actually. Witch Hunter Captain too. I had to get my Elven Waifu'stalker's black catsuit first. It's funny, like ten minutes before you posted that I got it after 3 failed Athel pub runs.
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Jun 3, 2018 17:18
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It's an interesting system cause you can't cheat your legend clears this time around with meme builds. If you want an outfit you have to do it as that class. I learned quite a lot about playing BW in legend that no person should ever have to learn. Now to wait for the day they buff BW... 
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Jun 3, 2018 17:23
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I don’t know what it is but I’ve had weirdly good insane luck with Drakefire dorf pubbies on Legend. What should ostensibly be terrible and liability, has somehow always managed to be a good luck charm and going onto winning 8+ leg games in a row; with different dorf pubbies over time pulling insane weight. Meanwhile I’ll group with people who are good/competent and we will get our face smashed repeatedly right at the start. Who loving knows
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Jun 3, 2018 18:48
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im depressed lol posted:you have to put up with/almost become an apologist for some serious bullshit.
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Jun 3, 2018 20:30
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Does anyone here know what happened to the Red weapons that were released without unique skins if they received their updated skins after you had applied an illusion to them? I got one of Kruber's unskinned red halberds last night, and I'm not sure what will happen if I put another skin on it and then they release a skin for that model down the line.
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Jun 3, 2018 20:32
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does anyone have pictures of all the hats/armor i want to see the hats
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Jun 3, 2018 20:39
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Coolguye posted:you really, really do not need to apologize on fatshark's behalf for anything and it is outright better if you don't. this game is fun in spite of its design decisions and in spite of its creators, not because of them. inhales deeply I don't have any reservations about calling Fatshark... a professional software developer whose product is being pushed out to thousands (millions?) of people incompetent. There's been whispers around the net that Games Workshop forced the release of Vermintide 2, and that sucks yeah. But if you're a software development company, you should have basic Standard Operating Procedures that prevent a lot of the issues that were blamed on the early/rushed release. Their inability to have even the most basic of project management skills led to such wonderfulness as the infamous 'version control' issue on release. For a TL;DR Fatshark's release binaries were compiled with source code that had a few extra/different lines from what they THOUGHT was the release version source. These few lines ended up .... ah I can't really explain it well so hopefully someone reading this can give everyone a better, concise explanation even if it is a kind of dead, buried and mourned topic at this point. Just be glad someone didn't slip some cleverly hidden cypto-mining software in a few pages of the source. That couldn't possibly happen though, I mean surely someone would put it all together, what with random crashes and disconnects caused by bizarre spikes in CPU useage by an odd process called EasyAntiCheat and... hey...  (Edit: just to clarify this is a JOKE)And of course there's the actual bugs in the game that are a symptom of a very weak (non-existent?) QA team. Really, really simple things such as 'selections in Talent trees actually do what they say they do and aren't just weird place holders the player can gleefully click on' would have been spotted immediately by even a modestly competent QA department. All these launch pains must have turned off a lot of people new to Vermintide. Players were given a false sense of skill due to this and suddenly when damage values crashed back to how they were 'supposed' to be you had a lot of people realize how wrong they were playing. They probably didn't want to bother unlearning bad habits and just left the player-base entirely. I don't blame them. Die-hard Vermintide fans can/will accept this poo poo. They have a history with Fatshark, and they remember the 1.5 patch months after Day 1 release that opened up a lot play-styles which weren't justified in any way pre-1.5 besides pure, hedonistic masochism. It's a shame the game is so good is what I'm saying I guess? I dunno. If I said anything inaccurate feel free to correct me. I'd like to not regurgitate nonsense. /rant Edit: I'll make up for this garbage, wall of non-sense text with a good, gameplay oriented post later I swear Dad. I swear to loving god. im depressed lol fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jun 3, 2018 |
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Jun 3, 2018 22:36
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Coolguye posted:this game is fun in spite of its design decisions and in spite of its creators, not because of them. Really? Because once you remove the creators and their designs you’re pretty much left with concept art of a skull pile adorned with smaller skulls and an outtake reel of a vaguely Scottish woman questioning your worth as a human being for three hours. So yeah, I guess you’ve got a point there.
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Jun 3, 2018 22:51
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I may pretend to give a poo poo about the gameplay, but really I'm just in it for the amazing voice acting. 
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Jun 3, 2018 23:10
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Coolguye posted:This game is fun in spite of its design decisions and in spite of its creators, not because of them. I mean Vermintide happened because the higher up Fatshark people wanted to make a cool Warham Fantasy ratsmash game and they did it, even if it's had and has it's dumb foibles and flubs, they kept supporting it through it's most dire times and practically transformed the first game over it's lifetime, I don't feel bad giving them some credit for making one of my favorite games in a while.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:14
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Vermintide 1 feels like it's fun because of fatshark, vermintide 2 feels like it's fun in spite of fatshark
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Jun 3, 2018 23:55
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at least they're not bungie.
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Jun 3, 2018 23:56
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Remember, it could have been a dev studio like Bioware making this game. You would not want that.
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Jun 4, 2018 00:12
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I only started when drachenfels was a thing and I remember Vt1 having some dire aspects to it. Weapon balance was a complete joke and they were still fine tuning it by the time I quit. i don't know yet what things are like in 2. But a fun game being held back by dodgy programming and decisions is par for the course. Remember they had to *add* the shrine to the game im depressed lol posted:I may pretend to give a poo poo about the gameplay, but really I'm just in it for the amazing voice acting. When I said I miss my vermintide friends I meant Kerrilian calling me human slurs
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Jun 4, 2018 00:27
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i want to gently caress the rats though
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Jun 4, 2018 00:28
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im depressed lol posted:I may pretend to give a poo poo about the gameplay, but really I'm just in it for the amazing voice acting. Does anyone have a recording of Kruber saying he can't read? Specifically: "Books, waste of time - I can't read anyway." It was some incidental dialog that Kruber would say in Vermintide 1 Wizard Tower. But every time I tried to get Kruber to say it again it just would never happen, regardless of who was in the party and if Kruber was the first to hit certain "voice line points". I started going mad, waking up drenched in sweat over the possibility that my memory may be fallible. But then I found this reddit comment thread and realized I'm still in fact infallible. It's the children who are wrong. VVVVVVV 100% im depressed lol fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 01:05
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Tiler Kiwi posted:*throws up hands in the air* Netcode!!!!!! i feel like this post wasn't appreciated enough appreciate this post, thread
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Jun 4, 2018 01:06
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Tiler Kiwi posted:*throws up hands in the air* Netcode!!!!!! I originally skipped past this because it was a wall of text, and man, I'm really upset I did.
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Jun 4, 2018 02:09
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For all the criticism I hand out, I will absolutely not disparage the netcode. Netcode is a terrible thing to wrestle with at the best of times, and it grows ever more complicated to manage as the players grow in distance from each other. Small countries that try to release their online games for larger countries like the US tend to have trouble for a reason. This whole affair is SO MUCH EASIER when people are just next door to each other. And frankly I think Vermintide handles the problem admirably. I have hosted for Sykic and Sykic for me. That's really really far, for note. Neither direction feels particularly terrible, and weird nonsense you see in youtube videos are rare. You can't block on pure reaction anymore, but whatever. With how much is being tracked at once, the game holds up pretty well as far as netcode is concerned. To that point, I'd like to call on another post that pointed out why the servers are likely in dev hell. Wanting to get the net code right without having to yank the guts out of the server every update is probably one reason.
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Jun 4, 2018 02:17
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