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of the people who are avoiding thinking about the scum vs town motiviations for actions and are instead copy+pasting things from the mafiascum.edu's 'how to play game' page, pod looks the worst because the posts he quoted that allegedly pinged him look identical to all the other posts in the game
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 15:33 |
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# ? May 2, 2024 23:28 |
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Hal Incandenza posted:Why is voting Nat20 anti-town? I mean this was basically my thinking. I'll ##unvote if that makes y'all feel better. There's just no way to know on day 1.
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 15:57 |
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It's absolutely nonsense to me that people are actually defending making an empty jokevote turbo as being totally fine regardless of format, but especially in this case where you may only get a few posts in the game before the day ends. Saying "Day 1 is a crapshoot" and just shrugging your shoulders and walking away is what kills games because then D2 is just D1 all over again. There's been a fair amount of content already, comment on literally any of it instead of just complaining about getting called out on your lovely votes.
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 18:34 |
Hmmmm but what do you have to say about my recent comments on Gulag?
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 19:08 |
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joking is good and turning this admittedly scum-sided but kind of zany game setup into a boring set of giant walls forever just seems kinda unfun, if technically optimal play But sure, I'll bite for now, why not I think Nat 20's zany pod post contained an actual nugget of value within the self-masturbation ("I don't think other players are as good as me," he says, with no reason for anyone to believe this of his towngame because, duh, his towngame ) in "Pod's case on me is a lot stronger than his case on Gulag, but he's voting for gulag". That said, I'd actually disagree, and state that Gulag's obviously intentional attempt to rush the post limit is more suspect than Nat 20's needless joke (even if I personally suspect that gulag would likely do this regardless of alignment, it's still egregious and I admittedly don't know quite how deep gulag would go). Nat's rather overly explanatory response in declaring a case against Pod reminds me of how he played FFVII mafia, however, at least until the two of us counterclaimed each other for fun and profit, so I've got my eye on him for meta reasons. I take specific issue with "he knows me too well to believe I would agree with this generally accepted piece of mafia wisdom", which is nonsense. Or in other words, count me as an actual, not just policy vote against nat 20 other things - I want to know what Pod saw in the posts he quoted that pinged him - Asiina is town
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 19:08 |
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I’m so sorry asiina I didn’t mean any of it
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 19:28 |
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I think one thing I'm kinda struggling with is what Gene just mentioned -- if we only have limited posts, I feel like every post should be chock-full of info, but that doesn't really sound fun or in the spirit of the game imo, and I don't really have an effortpost in me this early. Honestly, I thought we would've hit 100 posts way earlier and was worried the day would end with me having like two posts Gene's and Max's posts seems townie imo. I'm not sure what it is exactly but I don't like something about Hal's posts so far Still fairly suspicious of pod
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 20:07 |
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Max posted:Hmmmm but what do you have to say about my recent comments on Gulag? I think that Gulag knows what he's doing is anti-town and doesn't care. I disagree with Beet that scum and bad town are the same, but also I find that absent something stronger D1, I'm fine with voting out someone who could be either. Gulag is very difficult to read under the best circumstances and usually you can kind of leave him alone for a while and hope that something comes of it that tells you one way or another, but if he's going to make the game actively more difficult for town by limiting our posting leeway, then I'm not comfortable giving him that time. In other words, I think he's scum because he's doing scummy things and I think that he gets away with that a lot because "he's gulag and he's just trying to have fun" but even if he's just being bad town, without anything stronger to go on (which right now looks to be a dumb joke Nat20 made and Pod making a probably overzealous call about it) it's the best vote I think we can do. Xad posted:I think one thing I'm kinda struggling with is what Gene just mentioned -- if we only have limited posts, I feel like every post should be chock-full of info, but that doesn't really sound fun I don't think every post should be a giant effort post, but again that's not the same as purposefully wasting as many posts as you can on shitposting. Like why is this required to be a black and white thing?
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 20:18 |
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Asiina posted:I don't think every post should be a giant effort post, but again that's not the same as purposefully wasting as many posts as you can on shitposting. Like why is this required to be a black and white thing? Oh, I don't think it has to be a very black/white thing, it was more that I felt like I should post more, but didn't have a whole lot to say. Usually in a normal game this doesn't matter, or at least not as much as in a game where the day ends upon hitting 100 posts. Was more of a personal thing, not a rule for everybody.
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 21:15 |
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Asiina posted:I think that Gulag knows what he's doing is anti-town and doesn't care. I disagree with Beet that scum and bad town are the same, but also I find that absent something stronger D1, I'm fine with voting out someone who could be either. These are all good points but coming out of the gates posting multiple one word posts feels a little too on the nose as a scum tell and more like him trolling around a bit.
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 23:12 |
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Asiina posted:. I disagree with Beet that scum and bad town are the same, but also I find that absent something stronger D1, I'm fine with voting out someone who could be either. We don't have the luxury of 72 hours or whatever to joke phase or write war and peace. We have an indeterminate time to lynch someone and on a day 1 in a novel format with the usual day 1 blindness I'm going to vote for the person who is least productive to town. So yes in the early stages of any game, and especially in this one, bad town are just as good as scum and nothing is lost by such a mislynch. Votecount for Day 1 Natural 20 (3): GeneX, Hal Incandenza, AnonymousNarcotics, Max, GulagDolls (3): Natural 20, Beetphyxious, Podima, Asiina, Podima (2): GulagDolls, Natural 20 chaoslord (1): Murmur Twin Asiina (0): Podima, Not Voting (4): AnonymousNarcotics, chaoslord, Mr. Humalong, Xad With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. There is currently no deadline set. 29 posts left.
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 23:18 |
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this is actually going to turn into a huge disaster where nobody is willing to post as we get near 100Asiina posted:I think that Gulag knows what he's doing is anti-town and doesn't care. I disagree with Beet that scum and bad town are the same, but also I find that absent something stronger D1, I'm fine with voting out someone who could be either. posting the YMCA lyrics line by line at 7:00 PM tomorrow is actually good for town because it lures out predatory robots such as these, so im going to say retroactively say that was my plan
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 23:54 |
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oh also the whole 'scum would never be so obvious' is the dumbest thing ever. being obvious is a great gambit for scum because half of town would come to your defense decrying how obvious it is. and now to possibly undermine all my arguments (and hit my post count for today) mmt and chaoslord are getting overlooked sitting on 2 posts each and one of them has voted the other. supersuss on reflection i'm more suss on that than gulag's posting giving shelter to scum lurking (i'm feeling that's ironic coming from me)
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# ? Jun 27, 2018 23:59 |
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Beetphyxious posted:oh also the whole 'scum would never be so obvious' is the dumbest thing ever. Are you suggesting murdering a lurker? If so which of our two? If not why is my pod case not legit
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 00:04 |
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Natural 20 posted:Are you suggesting murdering a lurker? MMT voted chaoslord and called him out as scum and he has yet to post anything Beetphyxious posted:oh also the whole 'scum would never be so obvious' is the dumbest thing ever. I’m not ruling Gulag out, only stating my opinion. Also fine voting either of the lurkers.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 00:32 |
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*anything resembling a rebuttal gently caress phone posting is hard guys, sorry
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 00:33 |
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Podima posted:##vote GulagDolls Stop shitposting, it's actively anti-town. Hmm. ##vote Podima My read on scum Podima is that he tries to make serious-sounding cases too early on behaviors that are relatively innocuous, and this sadly fits the bill for me.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 00:41 |
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Max posted:His agreeing that Nat20's maneuver is scummy but going for the easy vote on Gulag instead. Natural 20 posted:[I clipped down this long post but click thru, it's the pod vote] Sold ##vote podima --------------- GeneX posted:I think Nat 20's zany pod post contained an actual nugget of value within the self-masturbation ("I don't think other players are as good as me," he says, with no reason for anyone to believe this of his towngame because, duh, his towngame ) in "Pod's case on me is a lot stronger than his case on Gulag, but he's voting for gulag". GeneX, help me make sure I'm reading this right. You say that Nat20s post has one point of value in that "Pod's case on [Nat] is better than gulag", but then you immediately say you disagree with that point of value and say that gulag's thing is more scummy than Nat20. And then you are voting for Nat20 for meta reasons. Did I read that right? ------------- Xad posted:Oh, I don't think it has to be a very black/white thing, it was more that I felt like I should post more, but didn't have a whole lot to say. Usually in a normal game this doesn't matter, or at least not as much as in a game where the day ends upon hitting 100 posts. Was more of a personal thing, not a rule for everybody. Yeah I am not a High Volume Poster, so this format is theoretically perfect for me, but it's been tough because I don't want to burn a post if I don't have anything! --------------- Mr. Humalong posted:MMT voted chaoslord and called him out as scum and he has yet to post anything Mr. Humalong posted:*anything resembling a rebuttal At least I'm not wasting posts ------------- I'm around and such but has a chance to win the NCAA Baseball title tonight so that's got my attention
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 01:21 |
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22 posts left in the day and plurality makes this dangerous, so: I'm the cop. Kash specified that I get Town/Not Town results which indicates that there is likely a 3P in the game too. Thoughts: Murmur Twin posted:Hmm. MMT's scumtell is that she hates being scum and has to really force herself to make up cases/will generally not post unless there's a spotlight on her. Her towntell is that she loves analyzing others' posts and making strong cases. The fact that she ignored the entirety of the rest of the thread to, as her first non-joke-post 24 hours later, drop a vote on me that put the vote leaders at a 3-way tie (me, Gulag, Nat20) for nothing other than a(n incorrect) meta read, makes me fairly confident that she's scum. ##vote MMT If she survives today, keep pressuring her to make actual cases instead of hanging her wizard hat on one-note meta reads. --- Xad posted:How do I make .7 of a post please help. This post pinged me at the time because it felt aggressively jokey/empty-content which is a trend I vaguely recall from scum Xad. Not enough to be more than a ping at the time though. --- AnonymousNarcotics posted:Hey I didn't start the I just hopped on This pinged me because it was very much distancing, which read as scummy enough to stand out at the time. However, followed up by this: AnonymousNarcotics posted:I mean this was basically my thinking. I'll ##unvote if that makes y'all feel better. There's just no way to know on day 1. This is extraordinarily self-conscious and, in a limited-post game, using a post to do nothing other than unvote without making any other reads strikes me as scummy. --- Anyone saying I was "distancing myself" from a Nat20 vote is talking nonsense, when I made it very clear that I would vote him. I've said this in previous games, but expecting people to punctuate their posts calling out multiple people with multiple votes is just silly. The posts are there to be reread, that's the point. Nat's "case" on me is effectively hinging on "Pod is a better player than this" which is patently nonsense. The thought that I could call him out early to "drive a plurality vote on him" while distancing myself when my post is right there is extremely silly, and even more so when you consider that this is a game with artificially few posts. This feels similar to when Nat20 was scum fake-casing me for... casing him while he was asleep, because I somehow have encyclopedic knowledge of Mafia players' sleep cycles. --- I just realized that Max called me out for calling out Nat20 without voting him... but never voted me. Hrm. --- GeneX posted:joking is good and turning this admittedly scum-sided but kind of zany game setup into a boring set of giant walls forever just seems kinda unfun, if technically optimal play Good post. Town read.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 01:59 |
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chaoslord posted:
Oddly uncharitable way to phrase that, but mostly correct. When I say a thing has "value", I don't mean I agree with it, just that it's actually worth looking into and evaluating. Evaluating it turned up "no, actually, Pod voting for Gulag makes sense to me", and further that Nat's methodology here, punctuated by one specifically ridiculous point about Pod's hypothetical evaluation of Nat's mafia abilities, is very reminiscent of a thing he did in FFVII mafia.* So I'm voting him for a combo of metaread and, technically included in the metaread, for my thinking his case is being faked. Other things, listed here instead of making a massive quotewall: - Hal is also stretching out posts but doesn't have the "is gulag" meta behind him, that's...not great (he might just be messing with Asiina though so ???) - the Gulag in question having the same questions on pod's targets as I do makes me lean better on him, Y M C A turbo sounds hilarious - Xad is very vague with reads and that's icky, he's got a bunch of clustered words but not much game-relevant in them - Beet posting votals is A+ good job, I think Nat 20 is scum and that's much stronger than trying to solve soviet prison camp figurines tho - Mr. Humalong I like you but I don't like you are quick posts - MMT voting Pod out of nowhere for "making cases out of small things" is blurgh I dunno, "wall mafia 2018" may not have been the best of ideas, I'll be sure to shitpost more early D2 when I can trick myself into thinking it isn't bad play (even though the first post technically counts as much as the 99th) *the way he manufactured a case on Pod out of that kind of "Pod knows me too well for this to be a coincidence/for me to be wrong here, he's scum!" previewedit: if people just post to unvote after Pod's probably true claim I will be vaguely cross with them, please vote for someone else if/when you disengage from inspector gehndget over here
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 02:42 |
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I agree with Pod that I think this might be MMT's scum game because of her lack of engagement. I noticed it too, but didn't want to vote for her and take my vote off Gulag. Gulag is right in that people are going to be skittish about posting as we come up on the limit. I checked and knew this was my 8th post which puts me at my theoretical point where I'm taking posts from others, so I didn't really want to post again since I don't really have a reason to move my vote. Pod still has the most votes, and he's now claimed. I feel like there are some reasonable options with MMT, Gulag, and Nat20. I don't really like the vote on Nat20, but would vote him to prevent the claimed cop from getting voted. I obviously have no problem voting either of the others. There's also still enough time for a new case to be made on someone, but it'd have to be a good case and I'm really not seeing one elsewhere atm. Frankly I'm probably not going to post again unless it's to move my vote because every time I post I bring Pod closer to being lynched, but I am still reading the thread.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 04:56 |
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I was out today doing things and the nature of this game dictated that I shouldn't post until I had the time and could make it worth it.Podima posted:MMT's scumtell is that she hates being scum and has to really force herself to make up cases/will generally not post unless there's a spotlight on her. Her towntell is that she loves analyzing others' posts and making strong cases. The fact that Pod is claiming that me making a case based off a tone/meta read is somehow unusual tells me that he's either lying or he doesn't remember what my D1 town game is like I have prior precedent on that particular read - I was confident in it then and I'm confident in it now. Podima posted:22 posts left in the day and plurality makes this dangerous, so: Blergh I feel pretty sure that Pod is lying but am willing to hold off on him for now based on this claim. ----- normally I would make another post here but I'm gonna MMT the heck outta this game ----- GeneX posted:I think Nat 20's zany pod post contained an actual nugget of value within the self-masturbation ("I don't think other players are as good as me," he says, with no reason for anyone to believe this of his towngame because, duh, his towngame ) in "Pod's case on me is a lot stronger than his case on Gulag, but he's voting for gulag". ##vote GeneX GeneX reads like she's nervous about making a fake case on Nat20. From what I recall of her town game (Shine V), her explanation was used to clarify her point; in this case, the wordiness of her explanation feels more obfuscating, like she's trying to reverse-engineer why she'd be suspicious of Nat20 (as opposed to just explaining her thought process off-the-cuff) Gene - can you summarize in like 2 or 3 sentences why you think Nat is scum?
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 08:54 |
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Murmur Twin posted:
I'll do it in one: Nat's pod case is based on absurd and inaccurate/speculative, in that order, claims about Pod's knowledge of Nat's personal mafia theory and Pod's in-thread weighting of two cases, all reminding me heavily of a different bad case he once made as scum. gnight!
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 10:53 |
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MMT, do you think Nat20 is town? If so, why? Same question about ANarc and Gulag, based on their posts from the whole last real-time day of the game that you seem fine with ignoring.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 12:36 |
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GeneX posted:I'll do it in one: Yeah okay, Gene scum. Gene's case on me hinges on the idea that my claim against Pod is absurd. The claim is that "I believe Pod knows me to be arrogant and also knows that I would bluff VT in a power role." It is incredibly unclear to me as to why this is absurd. That's just asserted entirely in Gene's prior case. Gene then draws a comparison to the case I made on Pod in FFVII mafia, which was notably "Pod is casing me while I'm asleep." Gene claims equivalence between these in the way that they're made, leaning on the idea that I'm making insane cases to get at Pod again. So let's look at the failings in argumentation. The nature of the absurdity of the case in this game is never established. Why is my read of Pod insane? Why is what I'm saying wrong obviously? Secondly the nature of the equivalence is obviously false, both the tone of the case as well as the requirements on Pod's knowledge of me. This is really really sloppy argumentation given the time Gene has spent trying to establish it. But notably it also ignores probably the most important part of that my conversations with her during the game: Scum is boring, I want to do something interesting. Let's run an insane plan. There is nothing creative or fun about running the same case on the same person twice. Even if you buy that there is an equivalence, it doesn't fall within the way I play to run the same plan as scum twice. Note on the comparative, Pod's reaction is significantly better, in that the question brought up about my case on him is a genuine flaw in my case. Specifically, I viewed this game from the lens of a normal mafia game, but Pod rightly points out that the post restriction causes posts to be subject to more scrutiny than normal. So my thought that he was trying to drive a vote and subsequently go under the radar is likely to be incorrect owing to that. (That the same error was made by him is within the realm of possibility, but unlikely at the moment). So the question is, do I think that town Gene would fail to notice the point that Pod dropped on me? Do I think she'd have such obvious problems with her arguments? Nah, not really. I think the case is fake and being driven by half remembered meta knowledge of me rather than by actual townie thought. ##vote GeneX I'm about for responses, but I'm happy to eat the lunch because then it means I can play Persona mafia.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 13:19 |
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GeneX posted:Oddly uncharitable way to phrase that, but mostly correct. When I say a thing has "value", I don't mean I agree with it, just that it's actually worth looking into and evaluating. Evaluating it turned up "no, actually, Pod voting for Gulag makes sense to me", and further that Nat's methodology here, punctuated by one specifically ridiculous point about Pod's hypothetical evaluation of Nat's mafia abilities, is very reminiscent of a thing he did in FFVII mafia.* So I'm voting him for a combo of metaread and, technically included in the metaread, for my thinking his case is being faked. That's fair. I got hung up on that word (value) and then couldn't really get "Gene is saying she thinks the gulag case is stronger so why vote Nat20?" Thanks! ----------------------- ##vote gulag, not gonna vote for Nat20
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 13:28 |
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I really don’t believe Podima but I guess we have to give it a day I still don’t like how Nat20 has played today and I’m not sure why GeneX is suddenly the target but I’ll look at them right now before I even hit submit... Yeah no I think Nat20s case is long winded BS and not buying it, he’s trying to dazzle with lots of words but I don’t really think GeneX was casing on half-remembered meta. Even if GeneX is wrong I don’t buy they are scum because they should have thought Pod this and known that etc... Not really feeling Gulag as scum either, I am happy with Nat20 vote for now
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 14:07 |
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GeneX posted:I'll do it in one: I feel like once Pod says “this is something Nat20 should know” as a reason for his vote that nat saying “i ‘know’ but I disagree” is valid so while I see your thought process I disagree with the conclusion on that bit. Can’t speak to the meta part.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 15:17 |
A part of me really doubts that Kash put a cop in a 10 person game and that just makes me want to vote Pod more but ffffffffff likely won't happen, especially with only 9 posts left after this, but his vote on MMT is ridiculous. Nat20 is currently the vote leader and I believe since he reached that threshold first, would be the dunk. I'm not going to move my current vote.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 16:49 |
I'm wasting another post to correct myself and to get us closer to dunk time by saying whoops, its a 13 player game, not 10. I still doubt the cop claim.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 16:49 |
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Hal Incandenza posted:I really don’t believe Podima but I guess we have to give it a day I agree with you on this--the amount of "they should know that I know that they know that THIS SPECIFIC THING" in Nat20's case right up there makes it hard to believe quote:There is nothing creative or fun about running the same case on the same person twice. Even if you buy that there is an equivalence, it doesn't fall within the way I play to run the same plan as scum twice. This is exactly what someone who is doing just that would say, though ##vote Nat20
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:10 |
So I’ve been thinking about the strategy of this game a lot and it seems like this is something to do.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:27 |
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Tell ya what. I'll spam post to 119 so I can sign up for persona.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:41 |
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So I'm town. People called out the same stuff in my last game as scummy as well.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:42 |
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It's actually pretty interesting. People call out my suppositions about other player's knowledge as unreasonable.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:43 |
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But this is stuff I'm doing about everyone all the time.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:44 |
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I feel like Nat's case against Pod is dumb and arrogant but that his entire case hinges on him self-declaring that he's dumb and arrogant and that everyone should know that about him. I feel like you can know Nat is arrogant but that doesn't translate to knowing what he's going to do, and Nat is assuming that there's a linear relationship, so I don't agree with his case against Pod. However, I don't think Nat being dumb and arrogant makes him scum either, it just makes him arrogant. I realize by posting this is bringing him closer to being lynched, and I'm not feeling really strongly enough about it to not post and hope that Gulag gets lynched, but I do want it on record that I think Nat is arrogant, but I don't think he's scum. I do agree with Max though in that we need to end the day sometime and maybe that can be a discussion for tomorrow on what the best strategy for ending the day is, because people become less likely to post as we near the end but someone has to end the day.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:45 |
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So I find it really amusing that I'm apparently so scummy my town game is also scummy.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:47 |
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Anyway, I imagine some people will be upset by me being anti town, getting myself lunched whilst being on the town team. But it's d1 and I don't really chalk up games where I get lunched there as games I win or lose. Since nothing has really challenged my brain and that's why I'm in these games to begin with.
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:50 |
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# ? May 2, 2024 23:28 |
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Snipe!
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# ? Jun 28, 2018 17:51 |