|
It's funny because reactionary regressive types usually like Wolfe
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 15:26 |
|
|
my bony fealty posted:It's funny because reactionary regressive types usually like Wolfe Yeah I was googling interpretations of Sorceror's House and read a whole essay before realizing it was by John C. Wright
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 03:36
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah I was googling interpretations of Sorceror's House and read a whole essay before realizing it was by John C. Wright Let's just make BOTL read JC Wright and see what happens, that's gotta be entertaining
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 03:45
|
|
|
I tried to read "Count to a Trillion" by Wright because the blurb sounded good. I quit halfway through. What a boring book with such tired ideas and characters. Dude also looks like a classic "m'lady" fedora guy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 03:57
|
|
|
Ccs posted:I tried to read "Count to a Trillion" by Wright because the blurb sounded good. I quit halfway through. What a boring book with such tired ideas and characters. Dude also looks like a classic "m'lady" fedora guy.  edit: we should make that the new stupid newbie avatar
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 03:59
|
|
|
The most exhaustive and comprehensive book of Wolfe criticism is published by an actual neofascist press There's now published sensical readings of him too at least
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 05:47
|
|
|
Ccs posted:I have a terrible sense for poetry so when I read Pale Fire I couldn't figure out if Shade's poem is actually good (though because it's written by Nabakov I assumed it is) whereas the Kinbote stuff was gripping and hilarious. However the tonal and interpretive contrast between Shade and Kinbote's writing is part of what makes the book great so taking Shade out of the equation would definitely diminish the quality of the text. Which is maybe what that reviewer is getting at. You are bringing to mind a conversation I had with a friend who said he had just read Pale Fire for a book club he was in and he found it pretty indifferent and didn't understand why so much commentary had been generated on it and included in the edition they were reading- which he had skipped over. The lead up conversation to this where I was praising it and explaining my enjoyment while he sat there in disbelief I'd rhapdodise over something so pedestrian is amusing in hindsight
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 06:22
|
|
|
my bony fealty posted:It's funny because reactionary regressive types usually like Wolfe HMMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder why?  Edit: poo poo I thought he was on the list signatories for the Vietnam war, but maybe it was before his time. fez_machine fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jul 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 08:21
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:
wasn't he the dude who had a big meltdown because the last airbender sequel had a gay protagonist
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 12:35
|
|
|
*bisexual
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 12:49
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:wasn't he the dude who had a big meltdown because the last airbender sequel had a gay protagonist Uh huh. He also wrote a nasty little essay fantasizing about punching Terry Pratchett because Pratchett spoke in favor of euthanasia. Wright is more Catholic than the Pope and really believes he's this generation's Chesterton, or at least one of the Inklings.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:22
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:HMMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder why? This is interesting, because it's mostly who I'd expect to have been pro and contra Vietnam, but Bradbury being contra is a surprise because I mainly remember his politics as cranky old man stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:30
|
|
|
Selachian posted:Uh huh. He also wrote a nasty little essay fantasizing about punching Terry Pratchett because Pratchett spoke in favor of euthanasia. Wright is more Catholic than the Pope and really believes he's this generation's Chesterton, or at least one of the Inklings. He apparently used to be a turbo-atheist but then had a stroke and saw visions of the Virgin Mary, so instantly converted. Of course he seems to have missed the "compassion" part.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:34
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:HMMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder why? Jack Vance noo
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:35
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:HMMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder why? Am I supposed to know who any of these people are? Selachian posted:Uh huh. He also wrote a nasty little essay fantasizing about punching Terry Pratchett because Pratchett spoke in favor of euthanasia. Wright is more Catholic than the Pope and really believes he's this generation's Chesterton, or at least one of the Inklings. I've long had a policy that any author who has a uniform is not worth reading. Even his website has him wearing his long coat and hat and if a writer is so dedicated to a persona he must dress for the part I feel he almost certainly has nothing to say. Alright fuckers, I am calling your bluff. Name the one Gene Wolfe book I should read. Discuss amongst yourselves.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:40
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Alright fuckers, I am calling your bluff. Name the one Gene Wolfe book I should read. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:44
|
|
|
That or Fifth Head.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:56
|
|
|
talk amongst yourselves! I demand consensus
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 13:57
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:That or Fifth Head. Fifth Head is too advanced for an introduction. It’s hard mode Wolfe. Latro also has layers but can still be enjoyed and understood on a surface level as well. And no other series transports the reader to the ancient world as well as this one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:04
|
|
|
less laughter posted:Fifth Head is too advanced for an introduction. It’s hard mode Wolfe bitch please
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:14
|
|
|
less laughter posted:Fifth Head is too advanced for an introduction. It’s hard mode Wolfe. Latro also has layers but can still be enjoyed and understood on a surface level as well. And no other series transports the reader to the ancient world as well as this one. I thought Fifth Head was pretty easy since it puts most of its cards (by which I mean narrative conceits) on the table and doesn't have absurd levels of obscurity like jokes that are only apparent as jokes when you dig through four different layers, notwithstanding that in Fifth Head you still have a lot of work to do in putting together the different things you see (its more serious themes are pretty patent, though, even if the nuances take a lot of work to get a grip on). Latro relies on knowing your Herodotus and antiquarian history generally. However, I did read Fifth Head only after having read the Solar Cycle twice and peace, so my first reading was probably skewed. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jul 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:15
|
|
|
Cheater that's two books That's a good choice for Mel I think. As good as any other. I've got Sorcerer's House in my head though and it'll probably be an upcoming BotM because it's short and probably the most accessible Wolfe I've yet read. Neurosis posted:). Latro relies on knowing your Herodotus and antiquarian history generally. Well sure but who doesn't, I mean, if you don't re-read the Landmark Herodotus every couple years, just lol More seriously though from what I recall of Fifth Head (I'm not sure I finished reading it) it seemed a lot more looped into other Wolfe works and not something you'd necessarily want to read as a stand-alone. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 20, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:15
|
|
|
keep in mind, I want definitive Wolfe, not introductory Wolfe hit me with your "this is why he is great" shot, not your "don't want to overwhelm you" shot
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:20
|
|
|
I don't think anyone would dispute that Book of the New Sun is his best. It's also long, dense and full of obscurities which will be opaque even for such distinguished literati as yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:34
|
|
|
fez_machine posted:HMMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder why? shocked to see renowned moral authority marion zimmer bradley on the "remain" list smdh
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:47
|
|
|
no seriously who are these people
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 14:53
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:keep in mind, I want definitive Wolfe, not introductory Wolfe Well that's easy then, yeah, Book of the New Sun is the obvious choice, if only because any time you tell people you've read Wolfe and he's poo poo, they'll ask "Have you read BotNS?" and if you say "no" they will sneer, as if you even lift, bro I mean if you're gonna read Melville you dive into Moby Dick not Billy Budd or Bartleby that said, I'm really hesitant to say anyone should read Wolfe, in the sense that, say, people should read Nabokov, or even Tolkien. Wolfe's niche as hell and an acquired taste and I tend to hate-read him more than anything else. That said, then, yeah 1) Book of the New Sun if you want definitive long-form deep-end Wolfe -- this particular Melville's Moby Dick 2) Fifth Head of Cerberus if you want typical, "Definitive" Wolfe that won't require a year of your life and a graduate theology degree to decipher -- this particular Melville's Billy Budd 3) Latro if you are a fan of historical fiction 4) Sorceror's House if you want a good sense of Wolfe with a minimal investment of time and maximum accessibility -- this particular Melville's Bartleby the Scrivener
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
Book of the new sun it is then I hope to serve as an adequate substitute for botl, praise be upon him, until his return
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:09
|
|
|
I thought Sorcerer's House was uninteresting except as a clever puzzle-box. I'd replace it with Peace in that list, since it had more thematic weight.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:11
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:I thought Sorcerer's House was uninteresting except as a clever puzzle-box. I'd replace it with Peace in that list, since it had more thematic weight. Now I have to read another Wolfe book curses
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:16
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:no seriously who are these people  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley#Child_sex_abuse_allegations
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:38
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:More seriously though from what I recall of Fifth Head (I'm not sure I finished reading it) it seemed a lot more looped into other Wolfe works and not something you'd necessarily want to read as a stand-alone. Yeah, it has a lof of parallels with Short Sun most of all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Now I have to read another Wolfe book It's good. I also hope you've read the Wizard-Knight, which is the other Wolfe work I'd put up there, although it's both too difficult and too genre to put in this list.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
mel i'm finally reading the rest of blackwater (i stopped at book 2 in october) and after that i'll join you with BotN. i firmly cannot promise that ill read past shadow of the torture though
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
chernobyl kinsman posted:mel i'm finally reading the rest of blackwater (i stopped at book 2 in october) and after that i'll join you with BotN. I am excited if only because I find their warnings of impenetrability to be amusing Such things I have seen, I have no fear of your petty warnings! Also how are you liking Blackwater? still a masterpiece imho. The last book kind of ends too abruptly for my tastes though
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:It's good. I also hope you've read the Wizard-Knight, which is the other Wolfe work I'd put up there, although it's both too difficult and too genre to put in this list. Yeah, I've read BotNs, Urth of the New Sun, all the Latro books, Wizard/Knight, Fifth Head (I think I finished it?), about half of Long Sun and I think one volume of Short Sun, Land Across, and Sorceror's House, plus random short stories here and there. Despite all that I'm not really a huge fan of Wolfe and rarely recommend him to others. He's always interesting but also usually irritating; always when reading him I get the suspicion that he's basically pulling a Lost and just throwing out multiple stacking layers of weirdness without a clear plan or thought as to how it all integrates.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I am excited if only because I find their warnings of impenetrability to be amusing yeah alright, be specific with what you think is happening and the allusions are to prove your superiority, or at least have a good motte-and-bailey ready
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
Neurosis posted:yeah alright, be specific with what you think is happening and the allusions are to prove your superiority, or at least have a good motte-and-bailey ready *walks up to line in sand* *crosses it*
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Pynchon novels of fire in the slums of London. I watched Leopold Bloom flitter in the dark near the Ormond Hotel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 15:26 |
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:*walks up to line in sand* That line . .. was pee
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 17:19
|
|