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I’ve never played the Star Trek mod, and I doubt I ever will because I’m not a pedophile, but from what I’ve read here about their ship system, I kinda wish Wiz would implement it in vanilla. Individual ships being meaningful would rule.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:04
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Rhjamiz posted:Yeah I kind of agree that the whole... fleet meta feels way off in Stellaris. I don't know how you'd fix it either. They're trying, but it's still incredibly blobby. That poster who mentioned New Horizons was right; their ships feel better and more meaningful. You can dispatch a cruiser or two to deal with minor threats. I think I'd prefer a Star Trek style fleet makeup to the way the game works as well, a few more meaningful ships seems like a really good idea to me. Patrol mechanic seems pointless though, I mean even with the way the game works now it's not like my ships are super busy or I'm super busy when time goes by. If it was automated to go to a place (and you're not having them flying round all the time because it costs too much money) then I'd get mad that they're not where they're meant to be when something important was happening.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:10
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I wouldn't mind military ships being treated more like science ships, with even really large empires only being able to field a dozen or so military flagships with corvettes eliminated entirely. It would make boarding a potential thing for disabled ships that couldn't retreat too. I'd also like it if the ships themselves could gain traits though, so the ships slowly become representative of your conflicts and culture. It would be fun to try and take down opposing empires' dreaded ships that have caused chaos for you, Bismarck style, and for ships to have a kill list of ships they destroyed too.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:37
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Omnicarus posted:I wouldn't mind military ships being treated more like science ships, with even really large empires only being able to field a dozen or so military flagships with corvettes eliminated entirely. It would make boarding a potential thing for disabled ships that couldn't retreat too. I'd also like it if the ships themselves could gain traits though, so the ships slowly become representative of your conflicts and culture. It would be fun to try and take down opposing empires' dreaded ships that have caused chaos for you, Bismarck style, and for ships to have a kill list of ships they destroyed too. I'd like that too. The only problem I can see with it is that a space battle between two large ships might be sort of boring. I've seen my fleets attacking those Marauder battleships and they take loving ages and it's so dull.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:42
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Omnicarus posted:I wouldn't mind military ships being treated more like science ships, with even really large empires only being able to field a dozen or so military flagships with corvettes eliminated entirely. It would make boarding a potential thing for disabled ships that couldn't retreat too. I'd also like it if the ships themselves could gain traits though, so the ships slowly become representative of your conflicts and culture. It would be fun to try and take down opposing empires' dreaded ships that have caused chaos for you, Bismarck style, and for ships to have a kill list of ships they destroyed too. That seems really boring. Games like battlefleet gothic are there if you want to really get into fleet combat of a dozen or so ships aside but part of what Stellaris offers is the sheer sense of scale. If I control about a quarter of the galaxy I want to be able to plot out the sun with my navies, and at a certain point be able to cover almost every inch of a system with ships.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:47
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Taear posted:Corvette swarms are strong but it's annoying having to rebuild so many ships. Yea it's the same price for ten as it is for one battleship but it's more actual time with more shipyards (and they come from all over your space too). It's not really any worse than rebuilding the corvette screens on 'traditional' fleets though since tend to burn through corvettes pretty fast too. One click fleet reinforcement makes rebuilding losses a breeze, although it would help a lot if there was a hotkey to jump to the Fleet Manager menu. Corvette swarms also utilize the reinforcement button a lot more efficiently since you won't end up with a couple fatasses hogging the shipyards while there's ships behind them in the queue, plus corvettes inherently reach the front lines faster thanks to their higher base speed and you won't care too much if a few stragglers get picked off en-route unlike a stray battleship. 'Coolness' never was much of a factor for me, but I almost never zoom in to look at my fleets engaging since I've been playing on a toaster lately and that tanks an already weak framerate.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:47
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Star trek style "only ship in the sector" never made sense and by the time CGI was available they dropped it. Starfleet should have about 1500 ships given what has been stated on screen about build rate and service life.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:57
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Though that does run into the clone wars issue of that being like, one ship per squillion cubic AU of territory.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:58
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Aethernet posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1025476704473628672?s=19 I'm super curious what this breakdown looks like besides xenophiles being at the top, specifically where hive minds/machines/pacifists fall.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:59
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Yeah i like the amount of ships thanks and wouldn't mind even more actually, if the engine permitted it. Space Opera for me is Legend of the Galactic Heroes with fleets of thousands, which makes more sense to me considering the scale of space and planets, not some dinky 20 ships for a huge empire.
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Aug 4, 2018 18:40
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isndl posted:It's not really any worse than rebuilding the corvette screens on 'traditional' fleets though since tend to burn through corvettes pretty fast too. One click fleet reinforcement makes rebuilding losses a breeze, although it would help a lot if there was a hotkey to jump to the Fleet Manager menu. Corvette swarms also utilize the reinforcement button a lot more efficiently since you won't end up with a couple fatasses hogging the shipyards while there's ships behind them in the queue, plus corvettes inherently reach the front lines faster thanks to their higher base speed and you won't care too much if a few stragglers get picked off en-route unlike a stray battleship. If you're in the middle of a war it's much easier to get one battleship to your fleet than twenty corvettes though, that's what I mean.
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Aug 4, 2018 18:53
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Taear posted:If you're in the middle of a war it's much easier to get one battleship to your fleet than twenty corvettes though, that's what I mean. How is it easier? You click the button. Stuff builds. Flies towards its fleet. There's nothing manual necessary other than the button click.
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Aug 4, 2018 18:59
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Also corvettes will arrive much faster than the battleship will.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:01
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ConfusedUs posted:How is it easier? You click the button. Stuff builds. Flies towards its fleet. There's nothing manual necessary other than the button click. Battleship comes ten jumps from the nearest station. Twenty corvettes come from six different shipyards that might be fourty jumps away. And are more likely to get held up by dumb things like a single outpost or a ship or etc.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:06
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Taear posted:Battleship comes ten jumps from the nearest station. Are you not...building dedicated shipyards with 6 shipyard modules? And how many of those do you need? I rarely need more than one or two such until the very late game.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:10
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Getting a Battleship torched by an actual enemy fleet sucks way more than losing a pod of Corvettes, though. Mind you, Corvettes that get intercepted and disengage also end up cluttering the fleet list, that sucks too. Not as much as the minerals and time invested in a Battleship, though.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:12
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A Star Ruler type fleet system with a huge flagship accompanied by swarms of support ships would be pretty cool. Each fleet gets 1 cruiser/battleship/carrier/titan which determines the fleet's primary role (dps/regen/hit&run/seige), and then a group of support corvettes/destroyers which get buffs from the type of flagship. Fleet size would be mostly tech based and # of fleets would be mostly anchorage based. Ship section upgrades like in New Horizons would make it easy to afford a cheap flagship in the early game and have it maintain relevance & appropriate costs in the late game.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:14
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ConfusedUs posted:Are you not...building dedicated shipyards with 6 shipyard modules? And how many of those do you need? I rarely need more than one or two such until the very late game. Nope. I have stations near the frontline with a shipyard or two with loads of anchorages and then older stations near what was the frontline or else around my starting area that also have shipyards. I don't tend to have the sort of minerals to be wasting moving things around or having dedicated stuff like that, probably because I don't settle every single planet.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:33
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I think that the game would probably benefit from additional modules and sections to allow ships to operate in support roles.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:38
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Noir89 posted:Yeah i like the amount of ships thanks and wouldn't mind even more actually, if the engine permitted it. Space Opera for me is Legend of the Galactic Heroes with fleets of thousands, which makes more sense to me considering the scale of space and planets, not some dinky 20 ships for a huge empire. I would be happy with the scale of LotGH, where at that point you're not really building individual ships but each "token" represents entire fleet elements. That's cool. I mean, I think space combat more or less works and doesn't need an overhaul the same way some other elements of the game do, but if it ever gets an overhaul then nailing the scale of a galaxy-spanning game would rock.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:40
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Taear posted:Nope. You should fix that Also build more gateways
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Aug 4, 2018 19:42
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That would be really cool yeah, but I am happy with how Stellaris is doing it right now as well. really looking forward to the next update! Hopefully the update after that will be diplomacy and Federation focused since especially federations really needs an update.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:45
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Nevets posted:A Star Ruler type fleet system with a huge flagship accompanied by swarms of support ships would be pretty cool. I love Star Ruler so this sounds pretty good to me. Star Ruler 2 was an amazing game.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:45
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I plant my shipyards in Gateway systems for reinforcement efficiency, and towards the endgame construct forward Gateways as well if there's no natural ones to strategize around. Usually one dedicated 6 Shipyard station per standing fleet so I can have my fleets fully reinforced in a few months barring catastrophic losses, more shipyards if it's Crisis cleanup time. If I don't have gateways to speed up reinforcement then either it's early enough in the game that I probably don't need to move my ships very far anyways, or my economy/tech is weak enough that I don't really want to be warring so I'm posturing defensively instead.
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Aug 4, 2018 19:48
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isndl posted:I plant my shipyards in Gateway systems for reinforcement efficiency, and towards the endgame construct forward Gateways as well if there's no natural ones to strategize around. Usually one dedicated 6 Shipyard station per standing fleet so I can have my fleets fully reinforced in a few months barring catastrophic losses, more shipyards if it's Crisis cleanup time. I'm normally playing with the planet modifier and always seem to find a couple of precursor shipyards which add something stupid like +6 shipyards to the space station so one or two is enough
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Aug 4, 2018 19:55
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Captain Invictus posted:You should fix that My games are usually over by the time I can easily build gateways, the game just gets too slow.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:41
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Taear posted:My games are usually over by the time I can easily build gateways, the game just gets too slow. Supposedly tiles have something to do with that so maybe the Death of Tiles will help
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Aug 4, 2018 20:50
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Shugojin posted:Supposedly tiles have something to do with that so maybe the Death of Tiles will help I hope so - since Distant Stars came out it's been slower much earlier in the game for me and it's pretty annoying.
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Aug 4, 2018 20:52
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It's Destroyers that throw it for me. Corvettes are good right into the lategame. They're great for sneak attacks or rapid response, and if you find you've bit off more than they can chew odds are they'll mostly make it home. Cruisers are great. Slower than corvettes (before augments), but with two augment slots, more utility slots per naval capacity, and the useless but lovable hangars (on the same section as PD!), you can just do stuff with them that you can't do with Corvettes. Battleships and Titans are slow enough that their speed is a meaningful handicap over cruisers but they make up for it by being covered with firepower and X slots/titan beams/auras. They'll punch through things cruisers can't, and the number limitations and mutually exclusive weapon sets means they complement each other rather than being mutually redundant. Destroyers are just slow corvettes that can't dodge or crap cruisers with no hangars on them. Their niche is being your only source of large and medium slots before cruisers, but why bring large mounts to corvette fights? Once you start needing them you have cruisers anyway. Ditch destroyers imo, they just muddy the waters. Or at least give them a reason to be mixed in with your cruisers. Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 4, 2018 |
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Aug 4, 2018 21:22
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The reason was early PD, but then corvettes got PD so yeah now they're just cheap ablative large slots or objectively useless. You could make the argument that they can be good corvette killers if covered in autocannons, but cruisers are better for that too.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:35
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The lack of utility functions is a problem for destroyers. Typically for a naval combat game you'd have stuff like anti submarine destroyers or scouting/electronic warfare kind of niche stuff where a smaller ship fills the role while the big guns can focus on just killing poo poo. There's no real utility roles for any warships in Stellaris so destroyers don't have a niche to fit into. The closest is point defense but that role can easily be filled by a corvette or cruiser. I agree that they're not really worth building right now.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:37
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The easiest and most sensible way to fix destroyers and corvettes is to make it so corvettes can't carry torpedoes and destroyers get a dedicated torpedo boat schematic. Currently massed torp vettes is an easy and spammable tactic.
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Aug 4, 2018 21:45
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Mod question: I'm looking for a mod that disables sector AI and/or the sector mechanics entirely, but that also puts in place some kind of debuff for non-core planets, say a significant resource prod penalty. Basically I'd like to avoid having to watch governors like a hawk lest they ruin my beautiful planet Feng Shui (even with all options off, they still do infuriating poo poo like putting unity buildings on a mineral-only planet), but without making the core system mechanic useless and without giving myself a free major buff. I haven't had any luck finding one in the Workshop so far. Does anybody know of something like that?
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Aug 4, 2018 23:33
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Aethernet posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1025476704473628672?s=19 Xenophile and some early trade treaties lets you live in peace with nearly everyone. If you're looking for a chill game Xenophile is a great pick.
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Aug 4, 2018 23:34
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I tried someone’s build on destroyers last game: large laser in the front, two small weapons like autocannons or flak cannons in the back. Picket computers and tracking modules. They can hit corvettes easily and if you have enough they tear apart stations almost as quick as a battleship fleet. They die fast but are almost as easy to replace as corvettes. Of course once you get battleships they’re phased out, but so are cruisers. And this way you can skip cruisers, which suck imo.
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Aug 5, 2018 00:05
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Corvettes just do too many things, full stop. There's no real reason to build anything else, and that is dumb. I build other things for the sake of fun, but it's pretty clear that corvettes are just hands down better than anything else, particularly against the AI which generally expects everyone to be mostly using the largest hulls available. Corvettes should have access to small and medium weapons. They should be an efficient use of minerals but an ineffective use of fleet cap. They should rely on evasion and form a frontline screen. Destroyers should also get access to guided weapons and point defence. They should do great damage for their mineral cost and decent for their fleet cap, but lack endurance. Cruisers should get fighters and large weapons. They should be good at fleet support and de/buffing, but also be good but mineral pricey all-around fighters. Battleships should get XL weapons and lots of slots. They're the expensive heavy hitters that are great value for fleet cap and can take and deliver a pounding. They also need to be faster, as they are currently slower than Titans, and basically make a fleet travel at half speed. It's difficult to justify anything but afterburners with them as a result. Titans seem like they're in a good place for being the true flagships, but they need a better diversity of auras available, since some of the auras are so much better than others. Kaal fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 00:35
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Is there a guide or video or something I can look at to learn the basics of combat? Right now I'm autogenerating my ship designs, building mixed fleets and probably spending waaaay too much time researching redundant ship components.
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Aug 5, 2018 01:25
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Yeah pro tip build only corvettes with either autocannons or torpedoes. Just spam as many as you can afford and zerg right over your opponents.
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Aug 5, 2018 01:48
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Two quick questions, as I think this is the furthest I've been in a game: When does a crisis fire, if I'm pretty much on default settings, medium galaxy? I'm up to around 2440 and not a peep so far. Also, I'm a subject of an awakened empire, who I think I'm at the point where I can take them on. Are they going to pull a fleet out of their rear end or anything if I declare war, like in other pdx games, or is what I'm seeing on sensors pretty much what they have?
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Aug 5, 2018 02:18
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A rumbling murmurs behind you, a hand taps you on the shoulder. It's the crisis, coming for your rear end, soon
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Aug 5, 2018 02:19
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