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euphronius posted:Again that power comes from I think his authority (new) as master of the White Council. He certainly has the voice of Saruman now at least. Doesn't he explicitly say that he is Saruman, in a sense?
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Aug 9, 2018 20:20
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webmeister posted:Doesn't he explicitly say that he is Saruman, in a sense? Yes With regard to his powers, he def did not have the authority to go against the White Council and Saruman before and does after. That we know for sure. You are probably right that that all gets wrapped up into magical and martial powers as well.
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Aug 9, 2018 20:24
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euphronius posted:Again that power comes from I think his authority (new) as master of the White Council. He certainly has the voice of Saruman now at least. I don't know if he has Saruman's voice. But Gandalf's ring does have the ability to inspire/inflame people's passions.
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Aug 10, 2018 01:32
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cheetah7071 posted:In case anyone hasn't reread this passage recently, it's probably my favorite: I agree. If only this had been in the movie instead of the green tide of death.
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Aug 10, 2018 13:46
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't know if he has Saruman's voice. But Gandalf's ring does have the ability to inspire/inflame people's passions. And drive people into a suicidal frenzy.
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Aug 11, 2018 15:54
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sassassin posted:And drive people into a suicidal frenzy. Hmm, Mr. Inconvenient Denethor did wind up getting himself out of the way of Aragorn by burning himself to death in Gandalf’s presence, leaving Gandalf in charge in the meantime... 
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Aug 11, 2018 15:58
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Gandalf kindled Denethor's heart .. literally
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Aug 11, 2018 17:37
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I finally got around to getting The Children of Hurin. A few chapters in so far, and it's interesting to have that grandiosity of the First Age tales combined with a much more character-focused view of the story than the Silmarillion gives. There's neat little things like the characters in Turin's childhood hearing about what Beren did, and the effect it had on their morale, that I never really thought about from the way the Silmarillion presents these tales. Also let it not be forgotten that Tolkien was metal as hell  :The Children of Hurin posted:Last of all Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and seized the axe of an orc-captain and wielded it two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Húrin cried aloud: "Aure entuluva! Day shall come again!" Seventy times he uttered that cry; but they took him at last alive, by the command of Morgoth, who thought thus to do him more evil than by death. Therefore the Orcs grappled Húrin with their hands, which clung to him still, though he hewed off their arms; and ever their numbers were renewed, till he fell buried beneath them. Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 21:34
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Tolkien Professor is officially accredited now 
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Aug 18, 2018 18:12
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Want to provide a link on that? Only he doesn't seem to have noticed.
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Aug 18, 2018 19:57
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The beginning of Exploring Lord of the Rings 69 or 70.
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Aug 18, 2018 21:13
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"Nice," as the Elves say.
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Aug 18, 2018 21:34
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That's not accreditation. That's not even close to accreditation. You still can't transfer course credits from there to an actually reputable school, and any degrees they may or may not award are still about as meaningful as flatulence. What Olson actually says is that "the program" (whatever that is) has been "approved" (whatever that means) by the higher education commission of New Hampshire, which I assume is something to do with this page begging for money. Which in itself is very interesting, because if I start looking for information about whatever the hell "state certification" might be in the USA, all the hits are for certification of teachers (and K-12 teachers at that), not institutions. Oh, and nobody sees fit to mention this apparently-important step on Signum's website, or twitter account, or Olson's own twitter account, or anywhere else for that matter. If it's a genuinely important step you'd think they'd all be falling over themselves to publicise and use as an excuse to pass the hat round again. He is still a pointlessly grandiloquent gobshite who thinks that "intelligence" means "talking for a long time", though, so at least his reputation's intact. quote:The Lone Lands are really empty, from the hobbits' point of view, right...they're seeing a wide prospect, right, but the lands are kind of empty and featureless, right, they can see a woodland, they can see a road, they can see the mountains, right, and Tony is noticing in particular the capitalisation of "Mountains". Now these are, "the" Mountains, "the Misty Mountains", which presumably why they're capitalised and not just "they saw some mountains, there was a bunch of mountains over there". But it does...seem to me to have a kind of effect, right? "They saw the Mountains..." One of the things they can see there, right, is this is sort of a flashback to Bilbo's own experience. Remember Bilbo's first view of the Mountains and he was extremely impressed when he first sees the Mountains at the beginning of Chapter 3 of the Hobbit. And of course he is wondering if that's Erebor, right, if that's the Lonely Mountain that he's seeing when he sees his first mountain in the distance. But in other words these are...they've heard stories, Bilbo's stories of course, but they've heard other stories about the mountains, the Misty Mountains, and they're seeing them now for the first time. And yeah, I agree, the high peaks glimmering among the clouds is very mythic, like, like Olympus. (continues) Or, in other words, "when the hobbits see the Misty Mountains for the first time, it clearly makes an impact on them, so Tolkien capitalises the word "Mountains" to help the reader see them as imposingly as the hobbits do". That's all he's saying! About one single solitary capital letter! And it just goes on and on and on and on for more than five solid minutes about something that's patently obvious to anyone with the comprehension skills of a mildly intelligent child of ten. Like, I'd understand if he was actually making some interesting point about something that isn't immediately and painfully obvious, but how does any of this relentlessly fatuous bloviating add anything to anyone's understanding of what's there when the hobbits see the mountains from Weathertop?
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Aug 19, 2018 00:24
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I posted that just for that response
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Aug 19, 2018 00:38
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Kicking easy targets while they're down is both Cool and Good and I recommend it to anyone who needs to blow off a bit of steam
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Aug 19, 2018 01:06
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Trin Tragula posted:Kicking easy targets while they're down is both Cool and Good and I recommend it to anyone who needs to blow off a bit of steam ...that little extract you just posted isn't a real quote, is it? Please?
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Aug 19, 2018 04:10
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If only I were exaggerating, but 31 minutes into episode 70 if anyone else wants to take the "see how long you can go without stuffing your fist in your mouth or clamping your hands over your ears in embarrassment" challenge, which I'm sure will soon be sweeping nerd gatherings nationwide as a modernised version of Eye of Argon reading contests
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Aug 19, 2018 11:03
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Re the intervention of Eru et all which we were talking about earlier quote:
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Aug 27, 2018 15:29
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euphronius posted:So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum. Only to be picked up by the most unlikely person imaginable: Bilbo from the Shire! This is very toothless writing.
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Aug 28, 2018 08:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is very toothless writing. Oh good it's you 
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Aug 28, 2018 12:56
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Trin Tragula posted:If only I were exaggerating, but 31 minutes into episode 70 if anyone else wants to take the "see how long you can go without stuffing your fist in your mouth or clamping your hands over your ears in embarrassment" challenge, which I'm sure will soon be sweeping nerd gatherings nationwide as a modernised version of Eye of Argon reading contests Aaaaghh what is that image that the Presenter just accidentally alt-tab'd to? My sprit broke at "ocular evidence of the black riders." Wow, this is simultaneously excruciating and boring.
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Aug 29, 2018 08:11
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i'm reading this whole thread because i'm a completionist nerd, but had to jump ahead because my copy of "the fall of gondolin" just landed in the US last night and i'm really excited. e: anyway, back to page 7, see ya
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Aug 30, 2018 14:42
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Not Very Metal posted:i'm reading this whole thread because i'm a completionist nerd, but had to jump ahead because my copy of "the fall of gondolin" just landed in the US last night and i'm really excited. In this vein, I don't own any of these books yet. Is this set worth getting?
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Aug 31, 2018 15:49
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Marijuana posted:In this vein, I don't own any of these books yet. Is this set worth getting? i've bought them individually, but the first two are great. children of hurin is a standalone story, fleshed out from the sil and JRR's notes. beren and luthien is several versions of the story, but admittedly i'm only about 2/3 of the way through though.
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Aug 31, 2018 16:00
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Fall of Gondolin is, of necessity, more like Beren and Luthien than Children of Hurin. As with B&L, there is not really a complete, fully elaborated, and updated version of the story. If you’ve read the History of Middle-earth books and Unfinished Tales, there’s nothing really new there except the (nice) illustrations. But if you would rather not go into all that stuff and just want to see the several versions of the story of Gondolin, then definitely give it a look. The last version of the story, the incomplete 1951 Tuor & the Fall, is one of the best pieces of writing Tolkien ever produced. Christopher follows it up with a succinct and pretty convincing account of why it was broken off where it was: Tolkien, at that point, had finished but not published Lord of the Rings, and had become convinced that it needed to be published together with a completed Silmarillion. This he doubted would ever happen, as much because of the enormous length and expense of such a work as because he did not in fact have a completed Silmarillion or anything close to it. Eventually, with what he expected to be a straitened retirement looming, he relented and allowed Lord of the Rings to be published alone, just so as to publish any of it, and dispiritedly gave up the whole business of trying to complete the Silmarillion.
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Sep 1, 2018 00:25
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I'm still hoping the full History of Middle Earth makes it to ebook someday. 
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Sep 1, 2018 00:49
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Do you think that the fact Aule as the god of industry, construction, smithing and mechanics has just the worst luck with his apprentice Maiar is part of Tolkien's pastoralist envisioning of the world and how he felt that industrialisation had negatively affected the landscape (and society) he grew up in, or is there something more behind that that I'm missing?
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Sep 2, 2018 16:17
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System Metternich posted:Do you think that the fact Aule as the god of industry, construction, smithing and mechanics has just the worst luck with his apprentice Maiar is part of Tolkien's pastoralist envisioning of the world and how he felt that industrialisation had negatively affected the landscape (and society) he grew up in, or is there something more behind that that I'm missing? It’s a broader part of his worldview. Aule is a creative god and creativity in Tolkien’s world always puts you on the edge of rebellion from the divine plan. Feanor becomes so invested in his creation he dooms his entire race. Galadriel is so invested in hers that she comes within a hair’s breadth of seizing the One Ring, despite full knowledge of its evil. Like Galadriel but unlike Feanor though, Aule is willing to Abrahamically sacrifice his creation to the will of God and that’s what keeps him good. He’s not about industry except in its broader/original sense of creative labor. His work is that of a craftsman — not without its moral risk but not innately destructive either.
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Sep 2, 2018 17:54
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skasion posted:The last version of the story, the incomplete 1951 Tuor & the Fall, is one of the best pieces of writing Tolkien ever produced. Not a very confident recommendation. skasion posted:His work is that of a craftsman — not without its moral risk but not innately destructive either. This is very bourgeois.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is very bourgeois. Tolkien was very bourgeois.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:53
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Fretting over languages is hardly a rung beneath the fops in the Scarlet Pimpernel spending their days netting butterflies in the scheme of things
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Sep 2, 2018 19:16
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Guys guess what most of the characters are aristocrats! destroy this counterrevolutionary propaganda!
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Sep 3, 2018 00:46
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Strategic Tea posted:Guys guess what Huh, that actually made me wonder something; is Gimli the son of an aristocrat too? Obviously Thorin and his two nephews were nobility among the Hobbit’s dwarves, but I just realized I’m not sure if Glóin and the other members were.
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Sep 3, 2018 18:50
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If they are a protagonist in Tolkien and have a name they're almost certainly some form of nobility. Even Merry and Pippin.
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Sep 3, 2018 19:03
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MadDogMike posted:Huh, that actually made me wonder something; is Gimli the son of an aristocrat too? Obviously Thorin and his two nephews were nobility among the Hobbit’s dwarves, but I just realized I’m not sure if Glóin and the other members were. If any of Thorin's companions weren't nobility before the Quest for Erebor, they drat sure were afterwards. And anyway Glóin specifically (and Óin, and Balin and Dwalin) was related to Thorin through their mutual great-great-grandfather Náin II. More than half the dwarves in the Company were Thorin and kin, and probably more, since there's no family tree listed for the other six. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 19:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If they are a protagonist in Tolkien and have a name they're almost certainly some form of nobility. Even Merry and Pippin. Sam is the only one I can think of that is not. Even Gollum is (probably) a noble. Gandalf said his grandmother was probably a matriarch of Gollum's people and important.
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Sep 3, 2018 19:35
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Ginette Reno posted:Sam is the only one I can think of that is not. Kin slaying, creepy, repulsive personal habits yet only gets banned from polite society rather than punished for his crimes? Yep, Gollum is definitely nobility.
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Sep 3, 2018 19:37
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Frodo is upper class, but not nobility (unless we're counting his Brandybuck heritage). Ditto Bilbo and the Tooks.
Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 19:39
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The Bagginses aren’t a noble family but Bilbo is a Took’s son and the Tooks are the most important nobles in the Shire. Like Frodo, he is distaff nobility who lives as a wealthy burgher. e: like, Bilbo (pre-treasure) is rich enough that he does absolutely nothing to earn a living and apparently never has. Probably “gentry” would be a more appropriate term.
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Sep 3, 2018 21:42
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Are all elves nobility? Are there like peasant elves tilling the field? Do orks farm? Do they have a hierarchy?
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