|
I never would have made a claim like that but this game started later than I expected and new WoW expansion was coming out
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 00:25 |
|
|
I'm glad the aliens lost.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 19:28
|
|
|
Max posted:I'm glad the aliens lost. Rude. I'm glad I killed you first.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
Mr. Humalong posted:Rude. I'm glad I killed you first. Why do you think I'm glad you lost!
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
Max posted:Why do you think I'm glad you lost! I tracked you on N1 because I was hoping you were on a scum team and I would track you to my own death.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 19:46
|
|
|
TMMadman posted:I tracked you on N1 because I was hoping you were on a scum team and I would track you to my own death. I actually wonder what the track would say if you had done that on the night I used my power. "You tracked Max to . . . wait, where did he go?"
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2018 20:10
|
|
|
Max posted:I'm glad the aliens lost. MILITARY VICTORY
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
SolusLunes posted:MILITARY VICTORY Unfortunately I was Town.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 02:49
|
|
|
Post-Mortem Part 1: Overall Mechanics and Setup: What went right: - I think the confusion and ambiguity about faction alignment ended up playing out as I envisioned it. - With a few notable exceptions, I think the game balance was roughly in a spot where everyone had an equal ability to win. - The presence of fanatics was a resounding success conceptually, as a kind of extended serial killer. I can easily see the concept being transported to more flavor heavy games as serial killers with non-traditional or more flavorful wincons. - The info roles did not dominate the game. - The kill amounts did end up mostly balanced by the self-protective roles and the doctor amounts. - The unequal but equivalent means of balancing between factions generally functioned, and abandoning more-perfect symmetry for unique strengths was a good decision. - People seemed to have fun. - The lurker rules did not end up triggering at all. - I didn't screw up any action resolutions. - With a few exceptions, I was clear on the way powers worked, and people generally did understand exactly what they were capable of. - A lot of the unique/new roles I crafted worked out nicely. - The traitors added a nice twist to the scumteams. What went wrong: - The fanatics were too weak. - The usurpers didn't really harm the scumteams at all. - Balance was good, but everyone had a poor chance of winning, meaning everyone was discouraged from the get-go. - There wasn't enough distinction between factions. - Scumhunting, while definitely a factor, got overwhelmed by the factionalized nature of the game and fell to the wayside in favor of roleclaims. - Not enough anti-massclaim incentivization. - Lurker rules could have encouraged more posts than they did. - In general, roles with greater survivability thrived too much. - I should have made it more clear in the OP that this was a rather strong departure from normal mafia. - The info roles were a bit too weak. - There needed to be more methods of breaking doc protection. - Goons and Daykills are a bad combo (though I have a particular idea in mind on how to incentivize not blowing your load immediately.) Next: Part 2: Individual Roles: (I encourage y'all to give feedback now, if you've got it!)
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 15:05
|
|
|
I loved both of the "3p Survivor Miller, but turn into whatever you eat" roles. For me I was just hit with 2 really bad strings of luck (eating a scum player tht couldn't talk to scum team and then being jailed instead of killed and being able to join scum chat). My inability to faction claim because I didn't know what was going on hurt as well. I thought they were both great roles. My one comment having spectated was the Lonely Doctors ability to Doctor herself over and over with no drawbacks seemed a bit OP.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 15:20
|
|
|
Alien Mother seemed to work pretty well, but pretty much every night I elected to make my kill with bulletproof because I never felt truly at risk of being tracked.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 15:35
|
|
|
Part 2: Individual Roles: The Town: Cop, False Martyr, Lonely Doc, Patriot Cop: Caught a scum, then died. Did Cop things. Grade: A False Martyr: Died before power could be used, might have needed more incentive to wait to use it? Perhaps vanishing at the start of the night, instead of the end, making it more protective? Grade: N/A Lonely Doctor: Could have been easily fixed by making self-protects only available after finding a lover/mason. Way too strong as-is, and trade-off is too risky to take. Grade: F (But played extremely well by yuming). Patriot: Died too easily. Still, a good concept. Grade: C+ The Village: Seer, Madman, Forester, Crusader Seer: Was a cop. Grade: A Madman: Caused chaos, role's negatives emphasized, still very strong. Did basically what it was intended to do. Grade: A Forester: No special condition became relevant, but doc was a positive. Could have maybe tweaked its conditions. Grade: B Crusader: See Patriot. Grade: C+ The Military: Researcher, Pilot, Scout, Man in Black Researcher: Cop. Grade: A Pilot: Goons and dayvigs  I liked the role, it had some fun incentives and could have been used to swing things against scum, but too easy to blow like a moron. Maybe should have forced the dayvig to be more conditional. Grade: N/A (Nat 20 personal grade: F. Complaining constantly was truly obnoxious to read.)Scout: I really liked how this played out. Downside seemed strong enough. Grade: B+ Man in Black: Hmm. Hard to tell, this was a very complex role juggling a lot of different bits and pieces; I suspect the whole was a lot more versatile and powerful than it showed, though. Like all the other fanatics, needed more protection. Grade: C Mafia: Corrupt Lawyer, Crooked Sleuth, Traitor Corrupt Lawyer: I actually liked this one a whole bunch. Disincentvized framing by virtue of the other mafia members having better actions than framing. Maybe should have been given added survivability of some kind (BP? Earliest draft had the Traitor with a giftable BP)? Grade: B Crooked Sleuth: Tracker probably wasn't strong enough info, earnable gun was a good, clean design and I think the day it would be gained was correct. Usurper wincon maybe a bit too much for a 3 man team, though. Grade: C Traitor: Lazy name, good role. Probably should have made them read as town prior to recruiting. Grade: B+ Werewolves: Pack Leader, Shadowskin, Wolfwere Pack Leader: Extra life much stronger than a temp janitor, needed better incentive to spend it than that. Good role though, even if the janitor-ing never came up. Grade: C+ Shadowskin: Nice, clean role with a usurper wincon that didn't cripple the team and a very strong, earnable means of achieving said wincon. Maybe needed to be a different type of jailor, like the mere roleblock+doc variant. Grade: B+ Wolfwere: Could possibly have made it check alignments instead of wincons, but honestly, I think it was pretty much perfect. Grade: A Aliens: Alien Mother, Alien Grunt, Drone Alien Mother: Lazy goddamn name, very strong role, maybe should have been prevented from choosing the same bonus two nights in a row (and given the option of "unroleblockable" split from "juggernaut".) Played out very nicely, however. Grade: A- Alien Grunt: Terrible name, fun role, needed a much bigger boost to be able to take down the mom. Grade: C+ Drone: Could maybe have been given a different power? Not sure what to change here. Grade: B- 3rd Party: Absorbers, Sun Lyncher Amalgamate Devourer/Amoeboid KIller: Should have been given an even greater penalty for waiting to discharge their absorb. Played out pretty great. Grade: A- Sun Lyncher: Not a strong enough anti-massclaim role, requires close mod supervision of game as presently constituted. Could use a few tweaks here and there, but overall, a fine role to have. Grade: B
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 17:05
|
|
|
GeneX posted:Crooked Sleuth: Tracker probably wasn't strong enough info, earnable gun was a good, clean design and I think the day it would be gained was correct. Usurper wincon maybe a bit too much for a 3 man team, though. Grade: C Since this was my role, I am going to disagree with you here. The earnable gun was a good choice, but I think the decision to make the role complete 4 tracks in order to get it was way too many tracks in a game that was scheduled to have at least 2 kills per night and could theoretically have 4 kills. Also, I believe I said this in the deadchat, but I believe that the reason the usurpers didn't work as planned is because each scum team was 3 people. That meant that a Usurper could only win with 4 people left in it game, so at least in my view, there is no reason handicap your own team. The only time the Usurpers would come into play would be if a full scum team made it to the end of the game and then it mostly likely just be a bus for credit. While I liked the idea of the traitors, I feel like making the 2 person scum team use an actual kill on them to recruit them also made it more difficult for the scum teams. I believe you said you were surprised that 2 scum teams did not bother to recruit on the first night but if you look at it from the scum teams point of view, the mafia, at least, quickly figured out that there was at least one other scum team and I might have even talked about there being 3 small scum teams in the chat. Either way, we decided with a 3 person split scum team, there was absolutely no reason to waste a kill by recruiting. Now this decision was helped along by birb being incredibly scummy on D1, but I am not sure we would have ever recruited our traitor. I know as a tracker who needed 4 tracks in order to get my gun, I wasn't about to give up a track chance in a game that looked like it would have at least 2 kills a night. And that folds right into why the frame was never likely to be used from the mafia team. Maybe if we had recruited N1, then on N2 the doctor that can't protect his own team anymore would make a kill and the godfather could frame someone, but even then it'd probably be better to send the doctor out to do doctor things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
Also, I think I understand what outcome you were trying to get on N1 which is: the 3 scum teams 'kill' their traitor while the 2 3P amoebas absorb someone so that D2 starts with 2 kills making it appear as if it's just a straight up game with either 2 scum teams or a scum team/SK. But I feel like the problem is that unless you actively script that into the game then it isn't likely to happen. There was no incentive for the 3Ps to kill someone on N1 and with their actual absorbing role, it was actually better for them to wait to kill in order to see if people made some claims.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
You know what I was planning with the false martyr. I was absolutely going to use it Night 1 (but would have died anyway.) Unfortunately since Day 1 ended so quickly I felt like leaving without any posts seemed iffy and wrong, so was going to wait until Night 2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 19:49
|
|
|
I think the Wolfwere checking wincons was great, because it gave us the discussion about AA vs Nep, who shared alignment but had different wincons.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
On my role and the game: My role: Lunchproof is rarely pro town as is just immediately ending the day no discussion. The former should be obvious, in a world where I get lunched the only thing I end up doing is depriving town of information that they absolutely need given that to that point I've been suspicious enough that they think I'm scum. The best part is if I then fullclaim and they try for a repeat lunch because they disbelieve the claim and it breaks again, then I've managed to screw town twice by existing. The latter is also obvious in that I cut any meaningful discussion. In an optimal world I would only have used that ability to self kill; as if town concluded that they wanted a lunch on me so as not to deprive a day's worth of information. Given the role is then essentially VT in a game where town has absolutely no ability to control any of the flow of the game, it's not fun or good to play. (Also I resent my play being called bad when I confirmed myself as town from D2 onwards with it and hit a serial killer, turns out lunchproof is irrelevant if you make yourself unlunchable) I think the role should have been a BP role that lost it upon vig use really, it would have been a lot more intuitive and pro town in its use. In terms of the game. There are 9 town players in the game, since every town has a serial killer as well that need to be killed to achieve a town wincon. Town lunch anti town roles on: (D1 - Patriot - Caveat, sortof pro town) D2 - Amoeba D3 - Alien Drone D4 - Corrupt Lawyer D5 - Amalgate Devourer/Mafia Traitor D6 - Pack Leader D7 - Pack Leader D8 - Crusader (with the caveat this is sortof pro town) Town lunched anti-town for 7 straight days and lost anyway, 8 if you count my vig. That's not a mafia game and when I complained about feeling helpless and disengaged all game, this is why, because the werewolf victory was obviously coming and there's so little that could have been done. I bitched all game because honestly I felt completely stranded in terms of what to do or where to even begin from by around D4. Additionally doing so discouraged NKs on me because why would you NK a disengaged person. I learnt this in DBZ2 and I assume you'll have learnt it now, but given that town in mafia runs around a 40-45% chance of winning and often still feels completely helpless, that reducing that chance significantly reduces the enjoyment of town to a critical extent.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 23:13
|
|
|
Natural 20 posted:
I see your point but I purposely switched off of BP kill so the game wouldn't be a draw e: I also felt completely discouraged by day 3 or so and decided to see how long I could stay alive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 00:07
|
|
|
Mr. Humalong posted:I see your point but I purposely switched off of BP kill so the game wouldn't be a draw To caveat. So little that could have been done. By town.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
"no one will ever read this, so, humalong WHY AREN'T YOU KILLING THE CLAIMED ALIEN COP" because the village did it for him
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
SolusLunes posted:"no one will ever read this, so, humalong WHY AREN'T YOU KILLING THE CLAIMED ALIEN COP" Uh also claiming to be a 3p alien and then killing the alien cop would kind of put a giant target on my head, wouldn’t it? This is why I try not to read deadchat.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 20:35
|
|
|
Also I legit probably didn’t even see the claim. I had a lot of poo poo going on the past few weeks
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2018 20:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 7, 2024 00:25 |
|
|
Mr. Humalong posted:Uh also claiming to be a 3p alien and then killing the alien cop would kind of put a giant target on my head, wouldn’t it? Ah no I just read it off the tracking spreadsheet. It made me chuckle.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2018 13:43
|
|