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What type of plants are you interested in growing? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Perennials! |
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142 | 20.91% |
| Annuals! |
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30 | 4.42% |
| Woody plants! |
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62 | 9.13% |
| Succulent plants! |
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171 | 25.18% |
| Tropical plants! |
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60 | 8.84% |
| Non-vascular plants are the best! |
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31 | 4.57% |
| Screw you, I'd rather eat them! |
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183 | 26.95% |
| Total: | 679 votes | ||
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DrGonzo90 posted:e: that video looks more like sod webworm damage to me, though I'm not sure where he's located. Looks to be out west somewhere where things may be different. It's possible that everything he put down was just placebo, though, and the lawn recovered just from watering. I believe he is in Utah I believe, so that checks out. I think the bigger potential difference from that is that he's not getting regular rains that would almost certainly wash his deterrent treatment off the plants. I could fully believe that the chili powder approach works in the abstract, but in practice it's probably not viable for a lot of people due to the need to reapply. And as you point out, rabbits probably aren't a problem in most cases unless it is really severe. Blakkout posted:Very helpful. Thanks. I like the material on this guy's channel. Here are some channels that I'll recommend. You don't need to follow all of them (at some point they start giving the same advice in different forms) but you can dial in a tone and effort/sophistication level that works for you. These are the main two I follow: The Lawn Care Nut: This is the guy who kind of got me into the "hardcore" side of lawn care as hobby. The YouTuber patter can take some getting used to, but I find he strikes a really great balance between giving you a peek into the "pro" side of things while still staying focused on concerns that an average homeowner who wanted to put in some extra effort would face and staying very accessible. He is in Florida now so he talks a lot about Warm Season grasses, but he has a ton of content for Cool Season as well. The Grass Factor: This, on the other hand, is some pretty hardcore "from pros for pros/prosumers" content. However, Matt is a really great teacher and I find that if you're willing to sit through some of the whiteboard videos it can really deepen your understand of various topics from a formal horticultural education point of view. I would say you don't watch these videos to help make your lawn look better, you watch them to understand HOW certain things work. Other channels I watch occasionally or think might be a good value: Ryan Knorr: A bit more laid back "Try-Hard Homeowner" perspective, with some good hows and whys. Grass Daddy: Even more DIY-level, might be the best pick for following along a total renovation from start to finish for a new lawn-owner. Conner Ward: Conner Ward is amazing to watch on occasion just to see how insane a person's lawn hobby can get if they're willing to spend hours on it on an almost daily basis. There is actually some interesting stuff in there just because you have to know what you're doing to have a lawn like his, but it's more performance art / a way to make you feel better on how much time you are spending on your own yard by comparison. Blakkout posted:I'm in Minneapolis. When we toured the place in early June everything was super lush and green. I saw a lawn care company out there spraying something on two separate occasions, so I think they were literally out there like once a week. Between mid-June and mid-July when we agreed to buy the place, I think the owner gave up on watering, fertilizing, and de-weeding. Between mid-July and mid-August, after we purchased but before we actually moved in, I did my best to water when I could, but I'm sure it wasn't enough. By the time I actually moved in a week ago, the weeds were pretty extensive and most of the grass was dying or dead. As I mentioned, I dethatched and pulled weeds for about 6 hours, which is why there are so many spots that are now completely bare. I prepared those areas for seeding, put some fresh top soil down, and seeded five days ago. I've been watering the new seed every day since then, and am putting down about 1/2" of water on the entire lawn per week now. Other than mowing, that's all that I've done. You are doing good! The biggest thing people mess up is (a) soil prep and (b) not keeping the seed moist. I'd probably stay at daily waterings for another week or so before you start tapering off, but it depends on what other supplemental rainfall you are getting. Like I said, tossing some peat moss *thinly* over it can help retain moisture, but it might be a bit late for that if you're already getting germination. Blakkout posted:This is my first lawn ever, so any tips on how to get this moving in the right direction would be appreciated. I don't need it to look like a golf course, but right now it's just downright embarrassing. So Cool Season lawns look their best in May-June, then decline pretty badly in July-August with a combination of heat and drought stress, and then (can) bounce back vigorously September-November. What your describing may not be a sign of an unhealthy lawn so much as just one that hasn't been so meticulously prepped for summer stress that it was able to avoid the natural seasonal decline. If they weren't actually bare then It's quite possible that the "dead" spots you had were really just the cool season grass going dormant. It's hard to tell without before pictures. Either way, if you're willing to spend the effort on dethatching (I hope you rented a machine and didn't use a manual thatch rake like I did exactly once) and the money on seed / fertilizer / water then overseeding now is probably the best thing you could do to improve the lawn next year. Blakkout posted:I'd be receptive to fertilizing or other chemical treatment, but I don't really know where to start with that. 1) Measure your yard, block it off into logical sections and note how many square feet each is. 2) Buy a basic spreader (the Scotts EdgeGuard Mini is fine for small lawns, the Scotts Wizz is also awesome if you don't have a big yard and want to save budget/storage space. 3) If you haven't already, put down some starter fertilizer. I'd recommend getting this (they should have it at Lowes/HD if you don't want to Amazon it): Scotts Starter + Weed Preventer You want to make sure you get that particular one (NOT weed'n'feed, and ideally not JUST "Starter Fertilizer"). This fertilizer will provide your new grass with Phosphorous to help establish healthy roots and some Potassium to help water regulation (as well as Nitrogen to feed vegetative growth). It also come with a pre-emergent herbicide (mesotrione) that is unique in that it's harmless to new grass. Thus it will help ensure your grass establishes those bare patches while keeping winter weeds in check. 4) Go to your local home/garden store and buy some Milorganite. Apply it at the "new lawn" rate. You can do it right after you do the Scotts Starter -- it's naturally slow release so it will not burn your lawn. You can go amazingly heavy with it (in theory). Meanwhile it's going to be doing good things for your soil ecosystem/composition. Do this about every 3-4 weeks until the first frost. 5) Mow, Mow, Mow. Mow at 3.5". At this point the new seed should be off to a good start. You might have some insect issues, or some soil/fertility issues, or some fungus/brown patch/disease issues, hard to say. But this will put you in a good place to winter over and come into spring with a healthy lawn.
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Aug 24, 2018 04:34
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kid sinister posted:Oh hey, I suppose this is a gardening tip too since you're digging. If you want to plant something and you're worried about where your utilities might be buried, call 811 first. It's free and works in all 50 states. Surveyors will come out and mark where all of your buried utility lines are located. Very helpful if you just moved into a new house. Just be warned that they're working on where the lines are in theory based on the survey and terrain, they don't actually visualize the lines themselves so sometimes they don't get it exactly right. I had them come out to mark before I planned to dig an in-ground fire pit and plant some trees. Where they marked my power lines was in a spot I hadn't planned on digging, a good 4-5 feet away from the site of my fire pit. I started digging the fire pit and found my power line running right smack through the middle of it. Thank god I was using hand tools so I didn't just rip right through the drat thing.
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Aug 24, 2018 13:13
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I would recommend against using any product that kills or inhibits fungus; a diverse fungal ecosystem is essential for proper nutrient cycling, water transport, and good soil composition and structure. Fungi are the only organisms that can break down tough lignin in grass and other plants. Folks use products that inhibit or destroy fungus in the topsoil layer and then wonder why they end up with so much thatch in their lawn at the end of the season. If you have some fungal disease in your lawn, chances are it's because of an imbalance in the soil. It's far better to correct the imbalance than to nuke the lawn from orbit. Also this should be common sense, but any product made from composted human sewage necessarily contains measurable amounts of pharmaceuticals and other designer compounds that you should not grow food in or around if you value food safety.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:57
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Hubis posted:
Great, thanks again for the help. I'll give those things a try. For whatever it's worth, here's a before shot from early June:
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Aug 24, 2018 15:24
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big dyke energy posted:Is it possible to insulate potted plants at all? Like if you can cut it back/cover the plant, and wrap the pot in insulation. Our Winters are generally pretty mild, my bigger concern would be everything dying in summer heatwaves. But I guess I can just.... enjoy them while it lasts. There's lots of sources of information for individual plants to provide guidance on what they need. So for example, for a plant I have in my garden: US: Missouri Botanical Garden & gardenia.net. UK: Royal Horticultural Society. The US (you) and the UK (me) tend to use different hardiness ratings. The US one is based around geographical zones whereas the UK one assesses the plant against a temperature scale. . To be honest, I'm new to this myself so I'm expecting casualties come Spring '19...
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Aug 24, 2018 16:34
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Blakkout posted:Great, thanks again for the help. I'll give those things a try. For whatever it's worth, here's a before shot from early June: Now that I think about it, LCN did a video that's targeted exactly at "I just bought a house, how do i maek lawn?" that is a perfect watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrnCChddWu0 Shame Boner posted:I would recommend against using any product that kills or inhibits fungus; a diverse fungal ecosystem is essential for proper nutrient cycling, water transport, and good soil composition and structure. Fungi are the only organisms that can break down tough lignin in grass and other plants. Folks use products that inhibit or destroy fungus in the topsoil layer and then wonder why they end up with so much thatch in their lawn at the end of the season. If you have some fungal disease in your lawn, chances are it's because of an imbalance in the soil. It's far better to correct the imbalance than to nuke the lawn from orbit. Fungal issues will come from nutritional imbalances (under-feeding leading to stress-weakend grass, over-feeding leading to soft, succulent growth vulnerable too infection), soil composition/environmental issues (mainly poor drainage, but also shaded areas causing excess moisture to evaporate less quickly) and poor cultural practices (over-watering/over-frequent watering, dull blades causing ragged cuts that are ripe for infection). However, just like with animal organisms, sometimes you will get a fungal population that creates problems in turf that would otherwise be perfectly healthy and not give it a chance to spread if it didn't already have an established population. In my own perspective, then, I treat fungicides like antibiotics: don't use them if I think the grass itself will ultimately recover and prefer cultural mitigation methods (restrict watering, bag clippings if infections are present, apply fast-acting N if it's an issue that the grass can "grow" out of), but when I decide it's necessary apply it a broad-spectrum combination at the high end of dosage rates for as brief a period as needed. But while some contact fungicides in use might be generally harmful to the fungal ecosystem, the classes available to homeowners are for the most part actually pretty biologically specific, and the ones which are systemic and might persist in your dead grass that becomes thatch degrade over a period of 14-28 days. If you are not constantly cycling a fungicide application (which you shouldn't anyways for resistance reasons alone) then it should not be a problem. The main contribution to thatch issues is usually over-fertilization, not fungicide use. Shame Boner posted:Also this should be common sense, but any product made from composted human sewage necessarily contains measurable amounts of pharmaceuticals and other designer compounds that you should not grow food in or around if you value food safety. [citation needed] I disagree with this for reasons that I don't think are worth derailing the thread for. Ringer Lawn Restore is an excellent alternative product if people are uncomfortable with biosolids.
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Aug 25, 2018 04:48
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I’m in Central Texas and I want to rip out my grass and replace it with xeriscaping. I know nothing about this topic. Is it something I can do myself, assuming a willingness to read up on it in advance? Any DIY xerescaping guides I can follow?
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Aug 25, 2018 10:48
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Plant people, I want your feelpinions on what this plant is- I’m not 100% sure that it’s monstera as the leaves look different to the others I’ve seen on the internet...  But it might just be too early to tell...
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Aug 25, 2018 11:10
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Close. It's a Philodendron. Probably P. bipinnatifidum, but it's hard to tell leaves apart when they're still small.
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Aug 25, 2018 14:40
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Do you guys have any tips on plant importation? I am running into issues with Canadian customs and Black Sapote seedlings.
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Aug 25, 2018 20:31
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Close. It's a Philodendron. Probably P. bipinnatifidum, but it's hard to tell leaves apart when they're still small. Wow, thanks for the help!
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Aug 25, 2018 23:43
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I have a massive potted philodendron. Well, it was huge, but then a 60-foot oak tree fell directly on top of it last fall. I mean directly on top of it, and the only leaves it had left were crawling out from beneath that tree. I couldn't get a tree service out all winter, so it languished and died beneath the tree in freezing weather. I dumped it in my compost pile early in the spring. It was very sad. But then all the broken stems in the pile started putting out new growth, and now miraculously I have two smaller philodendrons. I have no idea how it survived a tree falling on it, a temperate winter, and then an unceremonious dumping in the compost... but it did.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:19
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I have a massive potted philodendron. Well, it was huge, but then a 60-foot oak tree fell directly on top of it last fall. I mean directly on top of it, and the only leaves it had left were crawling out from beneath that tree. I couldn't get a tree service out all winter, so it languished and died beneath the tree in freezing weather. I dumped it in my compost pile early in the spring. It was very sad. But then all the broken stems in the pile started putting out new growth, and now miraculously I have two smaller philodendrons. I have no idea how it survived a tree falling on it, a temperate winter, and then an unceremonious dumping in the compost... but it did. Life finds a way
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Aug 26, 2018 11:54
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I have a massive potted philodendron. Well, it was huge, but then a 60-foot oak tree fell directly on top of it last fall. I mean directly on top of it, and the only leaves it had left were crawling out from beneath that tree. I couldn't get a tree service out all winter, so it languished and died beneath the tree in freezing weather. I dumped it in my compost pile early in the spring. It was very sad. But then all the broken stems in the pile started putting out new growth, and now miraculously I have two smaller philodendrons. I have no idea how it survived a tree falling on it, a temperate winter, and then an unceremonious dumping in the compost... but it did. there may be easier ways to propagate in the future but I'll have to research more
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Aug 26, 2018 19:44
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Fitzy Fitz posted:I have a massive potted philodendron. Well, it was huge, but then a 60-foot oak tree fell directly on top of it last fall. I mean directly on top of it, and the only leaves it had left were crawling out from beneath that tree. I couldn't get a tree service out all winter, so it languished and died beneath the tree in freezing weather. I dumped it in my compost pile early in the spring. It was very sad. But then all the broken stems in the pile started putting out new growth, and now miraculously I have two smaller philodendrons. I have no idea how it survived a tree falling on it, a temperate winter, and then an unceremonious dumping in the compost... but it did. This is why plants are so loving awesome.
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Aug 26, 2018 20:15
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I found a new volunteer friend. A... fig??? In suburban Maryland? Any ideas? 
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Aug 31, 2018 21:03
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Tulip tree. Liriodendron tulipifera Weedy, but grow into huge & beautiful hardwoods. Their fruit is pointy and I hate it. Lovely trees though.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:07
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A fellow enthusiast had asked about it here before, with pictures of a more mature specimen so you can see what you have to look forward to if you let it grow (either there or somewhere more to your liking)!kedo posted:I went for a walk in the woods the other day and stumbled across this fallen (but still living) tree. I've seen these blossoms on the ground before, but since they tend to grow waaaaaay up in the canopy I've never seen a still-living one up close.
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Aug 31, 2018 21:17
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WrenP-Complete posted:I found a new volunteer friend. A... fig??? In suburban Maryland? Seconding tulip poplar. One of the fastest growing shade trees there is. I think they can put on 25" a year? Oh, and they make pretty flowers too.
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Sep 1, 2018 01:31
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Tulip tree. Liriodendron tulipifera Thank you. My sister and I looked at pictures of them tonight and read all about them. https://www.arborday.org/programs/nationaltree/tuliptree.cfm http://www.mortonarb.org/trees-plants/tree-plant-descriptions/tulip-tree http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=a878 https://floridata.com/Plants/Magnoliaceae/Liriodendron%20tulipifera/62 We love them. We're going to try and make a little home for her in the woods. She's actually in a pretty good place for a nice big tree to go. A couple large trees close to there just came down last year. Edit: Hirayuki posted:A fellow enthusiast had asked about it here before, with pictures of a more mature specimen so you can see what you have to look forward to if you let it grow (either there or somewhere more to your liking)! Yes! Awesome. I was actually thinking earlier about asking kedo specifically what it was, since I know we're in the same area. Now I'm even more excited. kid sinister posted:Seconding tulip poplar. One of the fastest growing shade trees there is. I think they can put on 25" a year? Oh, and they make pretty flowers too. Yes! Thank you all. We're pretty happy about this. 
WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Sep 1, 2018 |
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Sep 1, 2018 01:50
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A bit ago I was asking about rooting two mystery cuttings I took from my fiance's great-aunt's house in Italy. Well, all of them took off fine in just water, and are now looking great. Still would love thoughts on an ID, though! The mature plants there were a bit more woody, and got very leggy and tangled off to various sides as they sought out sunlight   also bonus artsy shot of a friend enjoying our stonecrop planter  
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Sep 1, 2018 11:58
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Nosre posted:A bit ago I was asking about rooting two mystery cuttings I took from my fiance's great-aunt's house in Italy. Well, all of them took off fine in just water, and are now looking great. Still would love thoughts on an ID, though! Shot in the dark: type of hens and chicks?
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Sep 1, 2018 17:32
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maybe related, but these get way more viney. The mature ones were a tangle with stems reaching a foot or two In fact, I found them in a background! Enjoy some old-country good boys, and the parent plant in question:  
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Sep 1, 2018 18:15
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Yea I GIS'ed sempervivum and it looked like a few of the pics
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Sep 1, 2018 18:24
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ok next question - I'm in Southern Manitoba, so a shorter growing season with hottish dryish summers and long cool autumns. Gonna do garlic for the first time, beginning with a fall planting, working from cloves. 1) Any suggestions for when I should plant? 2) My yard has a pretty wide range of shade/sun, wet/dry, including an Oak tree hanging over one edge of the garden. Where should I go with my garlic? 3) Any suggestions for getting/choosing the garlic that will go into the dirt? I've heard that planting bland grocery store cloves will produce garlic of "gently caress you" intensity, which is what I want. Would there be any benefit for buying higher quality cloves, or should I just get a bag of whatever and put them in dirt? 4) Any companion planting thoughts? I'm already starting to think through next spring's garden which is going to contain zuchini, beans, peas, carrots, radishes, beets, chard, tomatoes, and probably some kale. I have a big rhubarb patch, too.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:31
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Thread, I need some help! I have an orchid cactus living outside for the summer and I just discovered that wasps have taken up residence deep within the curling branches. Will chemical wasp killer harm the plant? If so, how do I get rid of them? Due to the plant structure, removal of a nest would be slow and delicate work not quite possible until the little assholes are dead.
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Sep 3, 2018 17:31
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I've got a nice little garden going on my roof, but it is hitting the point where it is taking multiple trips with the water can. Are there any good cheapish pumps I can set up with my tub/sink that will lift water 10 feet and make life a little easier? My searches are getting bogged down in aquarium equipment and stuff for flooded basements.
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Sep 3, 2018 23:16
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Nephzinho posted:I've got a nice little garden going on my roof, but it is hitting the point where it is taking multiple trips with the water can. Are there any good cheapish pumps I can set up with my tub/sink that will lift water 10 feet and make life a little easier? My searches are getting bogged down in aquarium equipment and stuff for flooded basements. Can you use a garden hose? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ray-Padula-Gutter-Blast-Thumb-Control-Telescoping-Gutter-Cleaner-Water-Wand-RP-SRGC/205162394
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Sep 3, 2018 23:31
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Nope. Roof doesn't have any water. I have to fill up my can in the tub and bring it up stairs.
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Sep 4, 2018 01:20
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Nephzinho posted:I've got a nice little garden going on my roof, but it is hitting the point where it is taking multiple trips with the water can. Are there any good cheapish pumps I can set up with my tub/sink that will lift water 10 feet and make life a little easier? My searches are getting bogged down in aquarium equipment and stuff for flooded basements. You want to look for "head height" or "shut-off height". You will need it to be higher than your lift amount plus 1' of head for every 10' of horizontal. You could find a pond pump to do that for you.
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Sep 4, 2018 02:58
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Hubis posted:You want to look for "head height" or "shut-off height". You will need it to be higher than your lift amount plus 1' of head for every 10' of horizontal. You could find a pond pump to do that for you. Seems like there are a lot of $20 options that I could very easily set up a spout to the roof. Even if I functionally am just adding a place to fill up up there it'd be worth it.
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Sep 4, 2018 03:35
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Nephzinho posted:Nope. Roof doesn't have any water. I have to fill up my can in the tub and bring it up stairs. I didn't ask if your roof had water. House or apartment?
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Sep 4, 2018 03:35
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Nephzinho posted:Seems like there are a lot of $20 options that I could very easily set up a spout to the roof. Even if I functionally am just adding a place to fill up up there it'd be worth it. If possible, the easiest thing might be to set up some drip emitters up there and just use a pump to pressureize a feed line to do the watering for you.
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Sep 6, 2018 07:14
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Hubis posted:If possible, the easiest thing might be to set up some drip emitters up there and just use a pump to pressureize a feed line to do the watering for you. Unfortunately everything is spread out enough that that isn't viable. I'm also renting so I'm not quite willing to put in that much effort for something that won't really translate to another place. I'm looking at getting a $20 pond pump, attaching the tubing out the window, and basically just putting it in a bucket in the tub. The tube will feed out right into my little tree where it can safely run off while I fill my watering can. It is late enough in the season that I'm pretty much done and going to just see what survives the winter inside, but starting to plan ahead for the spring and that if I have easy water I can really expand. The majority of my roof gets direct light all day every day and my rose bush is blooming like mad, might just go nuts and add a few more next year, haven't really decided what else to include besides tomatoes.
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Sep 6, 2018 14:16
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I cant tell if I'm reading this wrong but if you're trying to use the pump to get water to the roof it won't have enough power.
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Sep 6, 2018 16:20
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:I cant tell if I'm reading this wrong but if you're trying to use the pump to get water to the roof it won't have enough power. If they get the right kind of pump it'll work fine. That said, I'm not sure a $20 pump is going to fit the bill. Nephzinho posted:Unfortunately everything is spread out enough that that isn't viable. I'm also renting so I'm not quite willing to put in that much effort for something that won't really translate to another place. I'm looking at getting a $20 pond pump, attaching the tubing out the window, and basically just putting it in a bucket in the tub. The tube will feed out right into my little tree where it can safely run off while I fill my watering can. It is late enough in the season that I'm pretty much done and going to just see what survives the winter inside, but starting to plan ahead for the spring and that if I have easy water I can really expand. The majority of my roof gets direct light all day every day and my rose bush is blooming like mad, might just go nuts and add a few more next year, haven't really decided what else to include besides tomatoes. Do you have a product link for the pump?
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Sep 7, 2018 05:50
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CommonShore posted:ok next question - 1) You'll wanna plant it early enough that it can establish roots, but late enough that it doesn't have time to sprout and die back multiple times before winter sets in. About 6 weeks before your expected first frost. 2) Full sun, in the loosest soil you have. 3) Store bought is fine to grow, but what I'd do is go around farmers markets and buy what they're selling. If they're growing it, it'll do well in your area. 4) Garlic doesn't like neighbors too much, you need to keep it weeded. What you can do though, is plant them as a border around your other plants, and that help keeps deer and rabbits out of your stuff. Mulch them heavily with autumn leaves to protect the bulbs from frost in the winter, then pull some of it back in the spring to make sure you're not smothering the shoots. Also, work in some compost before you plant, and then fertilize in the spring. Garlic is a heavy feeder.
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Sep 7, 2018 18:30
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Hubis posted:If they get the right kind of pump it'll work fine. That said, I'm not sure a $20 pump is going to fit the bill. anything under $50 will barely get 6ft of lift in my experience and then you start getting into the $100+ category (in reality probably over $200) really quickly and then you gotta wonder if you even want the 300-500gph pumps It's surprisingly hard to pump water against gravity. Maybe some cheap diaphragm pump? Rain barrel on the roof with a pump already in it so you don't have to pump or even worse draw up?
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Sep 9, 2018 21:35
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Any advice on propogating old fashioned roses from cuttings? I stuck like 70 cuttings last December from my plants and have two living roses to show for it (Duchesse de Brabant and a Reve d'Or-both very tough, hardy varieties in my experience). I'm in south Alabama where our seasons are completely wrong from the rest of the country, but a few folks told me that was about the right time to take cuttings for roses here. Stuck them in a sand/compost mix in the open air but protected them from freezing, and kept them watered etc. and put rooting hormone on a about half of them. I had a ton of them leaf out in the spring, but then they just died. Pulling them up showed they hadn't actually grown any roots over the winter, just leafed out with whatever energy was in the cutting. I can root easy stuff like herbs, but haven't tried much with woody plants before.
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Sep 12, 2018 00:46
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Anyone an expert on houseplant maladies? Just moved back to Atlanta and my pothos has started growing these weird brown nubs and ridged on it's stems.   Leaves seem unaffected and there's nothing growing on the soil or up from the roots.
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Sep 15, 2018 17:22
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