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ah people like the Borg I guess
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Sep 14, 2018 11:59
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My top 10 is just Darmokx101 shamelessly give yourselves to your basest instincts and list your favourites everybody already knows you paid $10 to talk about Star Trek on the internet.
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Sep 14, 2018 12:00
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Enterprise was a show where a lot of the big picture decisions were terrible but many of the details were good. So it was capable of having legitimately good episodes, but it was kind of a crapshoot if next week would also be good because the showrunners seemed to be legitimately trying to sabotage it with bad ideas.
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Sep 14, 2018 12:16
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I've never watched Star Trek, and I'm watching TNG for the first time. I'd tried to get into it in the past, but lost interest. I'm now following a watchlist to skip the chaff, and I'm in love. This show is so loving refreshing, because it is nothing like today's TV. It is way too wholesome. There are no conflicts among the crew. All the crew are good people trying to do the right thing. Approximately half the show's runtime is made up of the crew sitting around the same two sets calmly and rationally discussing their latest dilemma and hashing out a sensible and mutually agreeable course of action. Nobody has a nefarious agenda. Nobody is morally compromised. Nobody is addicted to space-pills. People aren't constantly sweaty and dirty. Half the time the bad guy of the week isn't even bad, but rather someone with a different set of priorities and viewpoints.
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Sep 14, 2018 12:19
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Geisladisk posted:I've never watched Star Trek, and I'm watching TNG for the first time. I'd tried to get into it in the past, but lost interest. I'm now following a watchlist to skip the chaff, and I'm in love. This is precisely Trek, well described And the lack of all of that is precisely why Discovery S1 was so disappointing
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Sep 14, 2018 12:30
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Geisladisk posted:I've never watched Star Trek, and I'm watching TNG for the first time. I'd tried to get into it in the past, but lost interest. I'm now following a watchlist to skip the chaff, and I'm in love.
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Sep 14, 2018 12:30
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skasion posted:There’s like one crew casualty in the entirety of the first two seasons. They did eventually go down this road of “wow the ship is getting its rear end kicked and 1/4 of the crew is dead” but like, come on. It's one of the things I rather appreciated, actually - the writers seemed to realize the first casualty should be a big deal, rather than just having expendable redshirts every week.
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Sep 14, 2018 13:02
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I should pay some shady foreign company to constantly re-watch DS9 on a bunch of proxies so we can gently caress the stats
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Sep 14, 2018 13:10
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Everyone's got a different read, hell I like early-season DS9 the best and genuinely love TAS so there's a star trek out there for every weirdo. Eventually DS9 abandons its greys but it's pretty neat while it lasts!
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Sep 14, 2018 13:11
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Nessus posted:They legit missed a possibility in ENT where they could have had the crew actually invent deflector shields. Presumably they had some kind of low-key version of the navigational deflector even if all it did was screen radiation. Yeah, Reed's bitching about the nav deflector in the first episode. Plus there's a big gold saucer with blue glow in the front of the ship. To be super nerdy, the deflector isn't actually like a shield, it's more like a reverse tractor beam. It just pushes space dust to the side. There is actually an episode where they get caught in a radiation storm and they have to spend a week sheltering inside the warp nacelle maintenance catwalks because the engines are the most rad-hardened things on the ship. Presumably to keep the radiation from leaking out, usually. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 13:12
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Angry Salami posted:It's one of the things I rather appreciated, actually - the writers seemed to realize the first casualty should be a big deal, rather than just having expendable redshirts every week. I can see what they are trying to do but they just wind up having a crew of expendable redshirts anyway; they simply don’t expend them at first. The first time a crew member dies (its in s03e02, “Anomaly” aka the one where aliens steal the antimatter pods and Archer tortures a prisoner) he’s not someone we knew, his life is not precious, nothing about how his death is handled has interest: he’s literally just an incidental character with no first name who dies to show the situation is serious. One can complain about how the main characters in Enterprise are weak, and they are, but its second-tier and recurring characters are far worse. Shran excepted of course. There’s not another one among them who you can imagine stepping up into the main cast like Worf, or getting a lead role in another show like O’Brien. Hell you can’t even imagine that about some of the actual main characters. Ensign Mayweather to the bridge! Has anyone seen Ensign Mayweather?
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Sep 14, 2018 13:30
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Star Trek Enterprise: Reed Alert
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Sep 14, 2018 13:32
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Incidentally the one guy from the first two seasons who died was the time traveler guy. So, it’s more like he “died”. Anyhow, no one gives a gently caress and they seal off his quarters to be used as a plot black box later.
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Sep 14, 2018 13:38
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Pick posted:Eventually DS9 abandons its greys but it's pretty neat while it lasts! Not sure what you mean here
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Sep 14, 2018 13:58
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The Bloop posted:Not sure what you mean here I guess about the point that the show starts throwing in evil devil-worshipers who literally have no other goals than to burn the galaxy down...
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Sep 14, 2018 14:03
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Angry Salami posted:I guess about the point that the show starts throwing in evil devil-worshipers who literally have no other goals than to burn the galaxy down... Even one of those evil devil worshipers is kind of sympathetic. You know who I mean? The Vedek who worships the pah wraiths because the horrors of the Occupation made him decide the Prophets don't give a drat about Bajor?
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Sep 14, 2018 14:42
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Yeah I mean there are some irredeemably evil characters in DS9 but there are also some very much redeemed characters and some noble ones who falter or fall
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Sep 14, 2018 14:47
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skasion posted:Hell you can’t even imagine that about some of the actual main characters. Ensign Mayweather to the bridge! Has anyone seen Ensign Mayweather? Like, you had five fuckin seasons and I watched and enjoyed most of it quite a bit, but gently caress if I can remember half the goddamn characters. Contrasted with DS9 or TNG, where I got not only all the mains but can remember a huge amount of secondaries or even just one-off characters. Ezri Dax had one season and I remember her character better than half the people on Enterprise. Ro Laren had like four loving episodes and she's better defined than Trip and Reed combined.
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Sep 14, 2018 14:54
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I thought Reed's blandness was intentional, like it was a defining characteristic of his that was acknowledged in-universe. I feel like there was an episode where someone was talking to his parents and they're all having a really hard time describing any of his characteristics other than  ?
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Sep 14, 2018 15:06
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Geisladisk posted:This show is so loving refreshing, because it is nothing like today's TV. It is way too wholesome. There are no conflicts among the crew. All the crew are good people trying to do the right thing. This highlights one of the things that Gene was maybe a bit TOO religious about, but at the same time seems to get too much flack when its one of the best parts of the series underlying things. Theres that great moment in the Barclay transporter episode where that nervous guy who people think might imagine stuff informs the staff, and outside of a brief "are you sure?", the captain basically immediately orders transporters offline and full investigation down to the wires. There was a refreshing level of trust among the crew, who all want to do their best job. Anytime someone thought something was off, they'd do diagnostics and never really brushed it off. I'm not trying to keep knocking STD, but within season one there was 1) Captain whos secretly from the mirror universe 2) Klingon infiltrator who kills other crew members 3) Evil security lady doing the bidding on mirror captain 4) Engineer secretly splicing genes into himself and going nuts 5) A second evil mirror universe captain who the crew thinks is their real captain 6) A main character who the rest of the crew hates and doesn't trust EDIT: EvilTaytoMan posted:I thought Reed's blandness was intentional, like it was a defining characteristic of his that was acknowledged in-universe. I feel like there was an episode where someone was talking to his parents and they're all having a really hard time describing any of his characteristics other than Yeah, the captain wants to make him something special for his birthday, and no one in the universe even has a clue of any food he enjoys. As far as anyone can tell he would just as soon eat ration packs every day. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Sep 14, 2018 |
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Sep 14, 2018 15:08
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I am glad that Clues made the Netflix Top Ten. Such a low key great episode.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:09
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Geisladisk posted:I've never watched Star Trek, and I'm watching TNG for the first time. I'd tried to get into it in the past, but lost interest. I'm now following a watchlist to skip the chaff, and I'm in love. This thread loves hearing episode-by-episode thoughts of people watching through the series, if you wanted to keep us posted.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:14
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MikeJF posted:Realistically Enterprise's mission would've been to discover new life and download all their poo poo. And then in the series finale, they upgrade their ship to a cubic configuration and start getting cybernetic implants and it turns out that's why we've never heard of this Enterprise.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:19
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Hoshi is aaaaalmost an okay character. She’s quiet and mousy, but there‘s nothing necessarily wrong with that, such a character can still be interesting. But she’s also a huge pussy who should never be allowed in space. I guess with T’Pol being unflappable they figured they needed one woman on the show to shriek about things. I think the actress was seriously underused. Unlike Mayweather, when her character gets to take center stage the result can actually be memorable (I’m thinking of the episode where she turns into a transporter ghost — concept is rehashed and ending’s a bit lame but her performance is quite neat and she successfully carries the episode). But like, how many other episodes does she get to do anything other than bare-minimum “hailing frequencies open” job performance, or inappropriately freak out? The only other one I can immediately think of is her Mirror version, which is hilarious/awesome, but...EvilTaytoMan posted:I thought Reed's blandness was intentional, like it was a defining characteristic of his that was acknowledged in-universe. I feel like there was an episode where someone was talking to his parents and they're all having a really hard time describing any of his characteristics other than It is, but the fourth wall breaking joke being funny doesn’t really make him interesting, especially when there are two other boring white Anglo dudes on the crew already whose boringness is unintentional.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:21
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I thought Reed's blandness was intentional, like it was a defining characteristic of his that was acknowledged in-universe. I feel like there was an episode where someone was talking to his parents and they're all having a really hard time describing any of his characteristics other than From the writer's guide: "This character's defining characteristic is the fact that he's really boring. Just completely uninteresting and forgettable, like a blank slate that no one has bothered to write on. Make sure that nothing changes here for the entire length of the show."
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Sep 14, 2018 15:23
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Drone posted:Star Trek Enterprise: Reed Alert Season 1 Star Trek: The Next Generation: "SOUND LAVENDER ALERT!! ALL HANDS TO WELCOME STATIONS!!!"
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Sep 14, 2018 15:27
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I thought Reed's blandness was intentional, like it was a defining characteristic of his that was acknowledged in-universe. I feel like there was an episode where someone was talking to his parents and they're all having a really hard time describing any of his characteristics other than That's a really lovely loving choice by showrunners. It's a lovely choice by writers, by creators, by anyone - the boring character cannot be a main character unless their story involves becoming Not Boring or all the other characters rip on them like crazy.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:46
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Whalley posted:Instead, we got Reed, the Guy Who Is Kinda Into Military Stuff, who everyone just kinda deals with, whose biggest character arcs are "he doesn't really have a favorite food" and "nah he's not really into soccer." Oh, god, I am Reed.
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Sep 14, 2018 15:54
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Whalley posted:That's literally the worst choice you can make with a main goddamn character. If you're making someone intentionally boring, like a Jerry Gurgich, the other characters have to be bombastic and the boring guy needs to have more going on. poo poo, I'd go further and say you need to make them part of comedy or else you've hosed up significantly as a writer. Instead, we got Reed, the Guy Who Is Kinda Into Military Stuff, who everyone just kinda deals with, whose biggest character arcs are "he doesn't really have a favorite food" and "nah he's not really into soccer." His biggest character arc is getting butthurt at the actual military people that get stationed on the ship because he is the ship's MACOs
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Sep 14, 2018 15:56
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Nessus posted:I'll be curious how you take DS9. DS9 introduces more conflicting agendas and complex characters with nuance, of course, but it doesn't enter the realm of "everyone is a middle aged man with a nagging harridan of a wife committing crimes in locations that are inexpensive to film in" Weirdly enough, season one of TNG is the one with the most questioning of what Star Fleet is doing, what with the mini conspiracy arc that results in that particular body horror episode near the end of it. Strangely now that I think about it, despite the fact that the Roddenberry directives are as in full force as they would ever be, season one is where the characters are at their harshest and least likable. Also, on TMP talk a few pages back, this isn't an original thought, but I sort of see TMP as the Cage to TNG's Encounter At Farpoint. The original pilot that didn't take off, but still very much an attempt at doing the same thing. Deltans to Betazoids, Decker to Riker, Jumpsuit to spandex, etc...
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Sep 14, 2018 16:06
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Whalley posted:That's literally the worst choice you can make with a main goddamn character. If you're making someone intentionally boring, like a Jerry Gurgich, the other characters have to be bombastic and the boring guy needs to have more going on. poo poo, I'd go further and say you need to make them part of comedy or else you've hosed up significantly as a writer. Instead, we got Reed, the Guy Who Is Kinda Into Military Stuff, who everyone just kinda deals with, whose biggest character arcs are "he doesn't really have a favorite food" and "nah he's not really into soccer." These are the same people who told the actors of human characters to tone it down on acting on Voyager so that they could make the alien characters seem exciting by comparison. This is just taking it to it's logical conclusion.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:09
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EvilTaytoMan posted:These are the same people who told the actors of human characters to tone it down on acting on Voyager so that they could make the alien characters seem exciting by comparison. This is just taking it to it's logical conclusion. Nah the logical conclusion would just be the alien guests of the week over-emoting to motionless, silent meat puppets that stare blankly into the middle distance. Hell, the opening teaser to each episode could just be complete silence.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:29
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remusclaw posted:Also, on TMP talk a few pages back, this isn't an original thought, but I sort of see TMP as the Cage to TNG's Encounter At Farpoint. The original pilot that didn't take off, but still very much an attempt at doing the same thing. Deltans to Betazoids, Decker to Riker, Jumpsuit to spandex, etc... I kinda like this analogy. TMP, like season 1 of TNG, had a ton of Roddenberry involvement (either directly or through his scumbag lawyer). And in both cases, his influence on the next movie/season was greatly diminished for the betterment of the overall series. Season 2 of TNG isn't perfect but I'll defend it, since I like quite a bit of it. And whatever man, haters gonna hate, but I think Pulaski is way more interesting than Crusher.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:36
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People hate on Pulaski for being rude to Data, when she's dismissive of him for about precisely one episode. She's a better doctor than Bev. Bev tried one of her procedures later and just fucks it up.
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Sep 14, 2018 16:49
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Pulaski did a stint on the flagship to get extra points on her yearly review, then immediately posted back out to a cushy policy position at SFMedical.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:17
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I would post more frequently about these Enterprise episodes except they are so bland there is hardly much to say. Overall if season 1 continues on its current path, I give it a C+ at best. Whoever said earlier that the large big picture ideas were poorly managed and the small details are good was totally right. Something about Bakula just doesn’t feel “Captain like”. I’m sure it’s because he talks like a normal person and not like he’s in a Shakespearean play, but even then something just seems... weak about him. Trip seems to be the one who really takes control in most situations (and he has an accent!). They should have reversed the actors and had Bakula play Trip and Trinneer play the captain and I think that would have been a huge improvement. Tripp’s character just feels like he should be Captain.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:47
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There's some good stuff in the first two seasons but it is generally Voyager bland. Season three is quite different, divisive, and very early 2000s. I like it but can understand why people don't. Season four is legit good most of the time and the best post-DS9 Trek (admittedly not saying much), then it gets cancelled. I liked that Archer is an incompetent boob who got the position through nepotism and Starfleet having no idea what they actually need for the mission. He gets more captain-like with time. I thought they did an okay job having the ship and crew slowly transforming over time from just being a mess to having some idea what they're doing.
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Sep 14, 2018 17:49
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Grand Fromage posted:an incompetent boob who got the position through nepotism and Starfleet having no idea what they actually need for the mission And he later becomes President of the Federation. I guess politics don't really change all that much in the next 150 years.
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Sep 14, 2018 18:06
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As an absolute lover of quantum leap, I was at the time baffled by how uninteresting Bakula managed to be as Archer.
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Sep 14, 2018 18:09
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Cessna posted:From the writer's guide: Reed’s defining character trait is offering to sacrifice himself to protect the crew any time an alien ship even appears. That guy had severe undiagnosed depression.
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Sep 14, 2018 18:10
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