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stump posted:What bizarro reality are we living in where a Vauxhall estate with 250 hp is underpowered. Well apparently Americans need at least 250hp to merge so...
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Sep 21, 2018 15:47
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MrOnBicycle posted:Well apparently Americans need at least 250hp to merge so... Can you even imagine driving something with so little horsepower? Like say under 100? poo poo would be terrifying! 
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Sep 21, 2018 16:02
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MrOnBicycle posted:Well apparently Americans need at least 250hp to merge so... SMUG DETECTOR TRIPPED Need? Want, and can have it since gas is <$3/gallon and we’re not paying VAT on our vehicles. Other factors: I have two paved roads within 2 hours of me that top over 14,000’ in elevation; my house sits at nearly 6000’ above sea level, and a long drive here is > 1000 miles which simply doesn’t happen with any regularity in Europe. In spite of whatever deeply ingrained resentment or shame you feel about others having horsepower, I assure you it’s ok. PS 100hp in any car is hazardous here on modern interstates.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:15
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Tremek posted:SMUG DETECTOR TRIPPED I drive a 100 hp Honda Civic up and down I-70/US-285 on a regular basis. Yes the engine might be pulling 5000 rpm up some hills but I never have an issue keeping up with traffic.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:21
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Tremek posted:SMUG DETECTOR TRIPPED *looks out the window at Land Cruiser with under 100 hp* *"Danger! High Voltage" begins playing* Nohearum posted:I drive a 100 hp Honda Civic up and down I-70/US-285 on a regular basis. Yes the engine might be pulling 5000 rpm up some hills but I never have an issue keeping up with traffic. No no no, you gotta rip out some combative hyperbole.
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Sep 21, 2018 16:28
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Nohearum posted:I drive a 100 hp Honda Civic up and down I-70/US-285 on a regular basis. Yes the engine might be pulling 5000 rpm up some hills but I never have an issue keeping up with traffic. I call bullshit. Doing 35mph in the right lane just ahead of the Vanagons going through Georgetown up to the Eisenhower Tunnel isn't "keeping up with traffic." I've owned two clean, well-kept, and maintained '91 EF wagons here in Colorado - one a FWD wagovan base model that made 92hp and 88 lb-ft factory on a good day from its D15B2 in front of its 5-speed manual:  And also a '91 RT4WD 6-speed with the stock D16A6 making 108hp/100lb-ft through usually, mostly, the front wheels.   Side note, both cars were EFI. The '91 was geared low, and so on a flat highway, it could do things like this:  Which, incidentally, isn't an unreasonable speed on I-25, I-70, etc. as I guarantee that cluster is highly optimistic. I'm guessing that's more like 78mph. However, neither car could do anything but downshift to 3rd or scream its head off in 2nd trying to go through the mountains. If I was lucky the RT4WD could maintain 55-65 at least up to Georgetown without NVH being completely unreasonable and then it was only worse from there up through the tunnel. Yes, you can commute through Denver all day doing 75 or better in a 100hp Honda. No, you're neither safe nor able to exercise any ample power in reserve to get out of the 9000 lb dualie's way as he barrels toward you in your 2800 lb shitbox without side crash protection or airbags. That's not combative hyperbole, that's the reality of contemporary roads. KakerMix posted:*looks out the window at Land Cruiser with under 100 hp* In July I briefly had a 5-speed '85 4runner replete with 22RE:  It was a rolling crash hazard on surface streets even when I had 29" tires on it. It too was completely unable to cope with modern traffic patterns here. Tremek fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 16:36
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Tremek posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_w0gn04aTw One of these cost a little more than the other. But for real, what's it compare to? Outback and the V70? Hardly a crowded market but I can't see a reason to take one over an outback (other than ringlands).
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Sep 21, 2018 16:44
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Tremek posted:SMUG DETECTOR TRIPPED I really do read people say they need it to be safe. European motorways have speed limits 70-80 mph and people go faster. Not to mention the German Autobahn. It's always the on ramp acceleration to merge that is the "problem". Want + culture I get. Need I don't. Especially not for the reasons above, which are the ones people give. MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 16:45
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Sadi posted:One of these cost a little more than the other. You're right, the Buick definitely can cost a little more than what I paid for my -V:  FWIW you can find -V wagons in the 30s now. Are you asking what the tall Buick fauxwagon compares to? They're competing for dollars and market-share with any number of tall wagons for sale right now like the current-gen Allroad, Outback, Golf Alltrack, V90 cross-country, and if we're being real - every medium-size CUV on the market. With that said the same niche buyer that wants a real wagon is also shopping the slightly up-market E400, XF sportbrake, 3-series wagon, V90, E63 AMG, etc. all of which can be owned as CPO cars in the same price territory as the Buick.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:03
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I dailied a 104 HP MAzda RX-7 for years, and still would (will, when it's done, again, but it'll be closer to 135-150HP), and I have no trouble with traffic on interstates and state highways here in DFW in my '87 Corolla with 80-something HP (when new, which it's not any more). It helps that both of those vehicles are under 2500 pounds, and I drive slow cars faster than a lot of The 140HP in my Wife's Kia Spectra is adequate, with the manual transmission. More would be better, but really only for acceleration and fun. Highway cruising is just fine. I'd get myself in so much trouble with fahv-hunnert HP coupes and sedans. I'd be the Mustang meme.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:05
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MrOnBicycle posted:I really do read people say they need it to be safe. European motorways have speed limits 70-80 mph and people go faster. Not to mention the German Autobahn. It's always the on ramp acceleration to merge that is the "problem". Tremek posted:Yes, you can commute through Denver all day doing 75 or better in a 100hp Honda. No, you're neither safe nor able to exercise any ample power in reserve to get out of the 9000 lb dualie's way as he barrels toward you in your 2800 lb shitbox without side crash protection or airbags. That's not combative hyperbole, that's the reality of contemporary roads. No, this is a real safety issue. The average weight of cars on American roads has gone up by 20-30% in the past 30 years and is probably worse now given the preponderance of trucks and SUVs out there. Generally speaking - with 100hp comes an older car - and that older car is going to be both significantly less capable of coping with being hit (or hitting) a much larger car on faster roads, not to mention lacking the safety system fundamentals that have come with the increase in weight like side crash protection bars, side and curtain airbags, better ABS and traction control systems, etc. Tremek fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 17:07
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I daily drove a 75bhp VW Polo 1.4 TDI the past four years for 140,000 km and literally did not die even once, crossing the Alps with two friends/camping gear on board it got a little more sluggish than I’d prefer on the steepest inclines (not ones you’d find on European highways but local roads) It can’t pull a trailer and I understand being strongly in favor of a more powerful car but needing one, not sure why. I ditched it but then got an ‘85 Renault that pulled 0-100 kmph in 11.6s new in its place and more like 11.6 minutes now, welp. That is a genuinely risky option to take up steep hills or expect to always merge at full speed
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Sep 21, 2018 17:08
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Tremek posted:You're right, the Buick definitely can cost a little more than what I paid for my -V: I wouldn't really call the Buick a tall wagon, slightly lifted suspension notwithstanding. It's an honest to God *wagon*, at least, and not really a CUV or tall hatchback. More akin to the V70 than the V90 (which is edging on actual SUV), and yeah, the Allroad and Outback. I like the Buick. I'd like it better if it weren't trying to be an Outback, actually. IT would be pretty neat to leave the flares and lower it on some nice wheels ala Drop Shadow's Allroad.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:12
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Tremek posted:No, this is a real safety issue. The average weight of cars on American roads has gone up by 20-30% in the past 30 years and is probably worse now given the preponderance of trucks and SUVs out there. Generally speaking - with 100hp comes an older car - and that older car is going to be both significantly less capable of coping with being hit (or hitting) a much larger car on faster roads, not to mention lacking the safety system fundamentals that have come with the increase in weight like side crash protection bars, side and curtain airbags, better ABS and traction control systems, etc. That's a fair point, but honestly, I'm not going to stop driving my neat old cars because of it. I'm certainly not going to buy a brand new car because of it (mainly because I'm broke-ish.) You can make a similar argument regarding motorcycles, really, though they at least have the benefit of maneuverability and usually ridiculous power to weight ratios. edit: all that said, the 82 HP in 2400 pounds in the Corolla is about as low a HP/weight I'm willing to entertain. As much as I think VW Transporters are cool, I could never drive something that unbelievably slow, stock. Darchangel fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 17:15
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Old Binsby posted:I daily drove a 75bhp VW Polo 1.4 TDI the past four years for 140,000 km and literally did not die even once, crossing the Alps with two friends/camping gear on board it got a little more sluggish than I’d prefer on the steepest inclines (not ones you’d find on European highways but local roads) Congrats, you were statistically at far more risk (source) versus were you in a larger modern car with modern safety systems, but you beat the odds, that's great. It's not like this premise doesn't translate across the Atlantic, your cars are getting heavier too.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:16
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Tremek posted:Congrats, you were statistically at far more risk (source) versus were you in a larger modern car with modern safety systems, but you beat the odds, that's great. It's not like this premise doesn't translate across the Atlantic, your cars are getting heavier too. Dude, seriously, no one is arguing that older cars are safer here.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:18
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Darchangel posted:Dude, seriously, no one is arguing that older cars are safer here. That's ... Exactly what MrOnBicycle is arguing against, or at the very least saying isn't worthy of concern. Edit: VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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Sep 21, 2018 17:27
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this is all a plot by rich people who can afford fast, new cars to kill the stupid poors that have to drive old, slow cars further wealth transfer from the 99% to the 1%
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Sep 21, 2018 17:28
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Tremek posted:That's ... Exactly what MrOnBicycle is arguing against, or at the very least saying isn't worthy of concern. That's not how I read it. He said that people don't need 1000 HP to be safe, not that that a new car wasn't safer than an older. He was arguing HP, not age. Don't forget that in Eurp, they still get 110 HP diesels and tiny gas motors in brand-new cars, and nowhere near as many high speed highways as the US.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:32
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Tremek posted:Congrats, you were statistically at far more risk (source) versus were you in a larger modern car with modern safety systems, but you beat the odds, that's great. It's not like this premise doesn't translate across the Atlantic, your cars are getting heavier too. What is it with you authoritatively being so combative? It's a slog to try to discuss anything when you just spittle-ramble on while slamming your fists on your (probably bad for your posture!) armchair. "STATISTICS" you scream, yet if you aren't driving the statistically safest vehicle in the world, using the safest speeds and live in the safest area in the safest house then you are just as reckless as those of us DDing diesel import Cruisers. Suppose you can stretch that out and just write off driving completely, it is extremely dangerous anyway, better not take the risk. We can start talking diets, or lifestyles, or carbon monoxide exposure and compare risks there too! Alcohol consumption, cancer rates, oh boy. Under 100hp is just fine regardless of how you passionately feel about it. If you want to be safe DON'T DRIVE AT ALL.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:32
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BlackMK4 posted:this is all a plot by rich people who can afford fast, new cars to kill the stupid poors that have to drive old, slow cars LOL that the rich actually drive or use ground transportation down with the dirty poors.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:32
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Tremek posted:That's ... Exactly what MrOnBicycle is arguing against, or at the very least saying isn't worthy of concern. What I'm saying is that I can't understand why I keep hearing from Americans that they need "high" power to merge safely. I drove a 136hp Volvo V70 Diesel on the German Autobahn and had absolutely no problem at all going on ramps, merging and the cruising at 160-180km/h depending on the road surface. 0-100 takes 10 seconds. So what I really am wondering is: Is it poor construction of on ramps, bad drivers or some cultural thing?
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Sep 21, 2018 17:49
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All of the above, but it's really not that bad. Then again, I commuted by motorcycle for a number of years so I think this poo poo is all overblown.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:50
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KakerMix posted:What is it with you authoritatively being so combative? It's a slog to try to discuss anything when you just spittle-ramble on while slamming your fists on your (probably bad for your posture!) armchair. Hey, look in the mirror pal: you're writing about how you "feel" about this topic - which is clearly defensive - while simultaneously being hostile and dismissing data. You can drive 100hp all you want, but it's also less-safe relative to a car with more HP on our modern roads.
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Sep 21, 2018 17:55
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Tremek posted:Hey, look in the mirror pal: you're writing about how you "feel" about this topic - which is clearly defensive - while simultaneously being hostile and dismissing data. Dang I don't want to stereotype you too hard but it's like I know exactly how you are in real life, in actual conversation. You said under-powered, people went 'heh'. Someone made a joke and you jumped in like they said 'Tremek' instead of 'Americans'. Then you vomit a bunch of data that goes way past how safe horsepower is and start getting all weird about safety and lashing out at people and it's like dang don't you ever get tired? MrOnBicycle posted:What I'm saying is that I can't understand why I keep hearing from Americans that they need "high" power to merge safely. I drove a 136hp Volvo V70 Diesel on the German Autobahn and had absolutely no problem at all going on ramps, merging and the cruising at 160-180km/h depending on the road surface. 0-100 takes 10 seconds. If this current thread topic is any indication it is absolutely a cultural thing. One dude lives in Colorado and suddenly Euros are smug jerks who pay too much, I think. I dunno I can't keep up with all the anger.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:17
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I constantly, constantly see people nearly swerve *into* merging traffic from the right lane because they were loving with their phone or their kids or some food (etc) and the person trying to merge hasn't gotten up to traffic speed to outpace them. I legitimately do not feel safe merging on some ramps with my wife's versa, which is a 100hp 2800lb thing. It's an education and driving skill thing that seems impossible to fix because of American commuter culture/horrible interstate design. It's not a made up thing, friends.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:19
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SeaGoatSupreme posted:I constantly, constantly see people nearly swerve *into* merging traffic from the right lane because they were loving with their phone or their kids or some food (etc) and the person trying to merge hasn't gotten up to traffic speed to outpace them. Absolutely, it is a problem in deep, ingrained ways that go beyond 'bigger' and 'more power'.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:23
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500hp per ton or gently caress off
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Sep 21, 2018 18:33
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KakerMix posted:Absolutely, it is a problem in deep, ingrained ways that go beyond 'bigger' and 'more power'.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:44
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Bape Culture posted:500hp per ton or gently caress off Metric or SAE?
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Sep 21, 2018 18:45
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America seems to have this min-max approach to everything... or maybe a bipolar issue as a country... or maybe it is just the internet because people seem pretty understanding in real life, other than the few idiots who you'll never get through to.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:46
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Darchangel posted:Metric or SAE? Well he didn't say 'tonne', so
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Sep 21, 2018 18:47
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KakerMix posted:Lots of ad-hom nonsense Wow. Discourse in 2018: get mad at someone’s argument, attack person instead of argument. Whether I’m anything you wrote in person or not, you’re definitely being an rear end in a top hat on the Internet right now.
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Sep 21, 2018 18:47
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100hp naturally aspirated in the mountains, I get not being sufficient. Most anywhere else though and I'd argue it's fine. We took 140hp turbo cars (modern heavy cars!) all through exactly where Tremek describes to 9-14k feet, and they're completely fine and not unsafe from an acceleration perspective. You can keep highway speeds fine and make it through a left turn intersection without the car falling on it's face so good nuff. Need more rides being posted to get this train back on it's tracks. A bike and baby hauler: 
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Sep 21, 2018 18:51
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My once-nice-car is going to go to poo poo since I ordered a 68" wing last night in attempt to win some stickers
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Sep 21, 2018 18:53
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Hell yeah
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Sep 21, 2018 19:12
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Since crash safety was suddenly brought up, there is a correlation between horsepower and speeding, which in turn has a direct correlation with crash frequency and severity. I can hear everyone going "Duh!" right now but this seems to be the level the conversation is at. Effects of vehicle power on passenger vehicle speeds, McCartt, Anne T.; Hu, Wen, 2016 posted:After controlling for driver characteristics, speed limit, vehicle type, and traffic volume, a 1-unit increase in vehicle power was associated with a 0.7% increase in mean speed, a 2.7% increase in the likelihood of a vehicle exceeding the speed limit by any amount, and an 11.6% increase in the likelihood of a vehicle exceeding the limit by 10 mph. All of these increases were highly significant. To illustrate the findings, a 3-unit increase in vehicle power, which is equivalent to the difference between the 10th and 90th percentile vehicle power for the study vehicles, is associated with a 38% increase in the likelihood that a vehicle exceeds the speed limit by more than 10 mph. World report on road traffic injury prevention, edited by Margie Peden ... (et al.), 2004, p76 posted:
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Sep 21, 2018 19:14
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Tremek posted:Congrats, you were statistically at far more risk (source) versus were you in a larger modern car with modern safety systems, but you beat the odds, that's great. It's not like this premise doesn't translate across the Atlantic, your cars are getting heavier too. it was new when i got it, not some pre-Euro NCAP crash test model. A 2014 model 75 bhp bluemotion tdi - not a dieselgate but the gold standard of salaryman transportation in the day due to tax advantages. Yeah they’re getting heavier, that Polo weighs as much as my 33 year old 7 seater MPV, literally. I don’t see how this is related to the engine performance so closely. I didn’t mean to attack you or anything just illustrate how a low power current econobox never felt inherently unsafe to me
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Sep 21, 2018 19:16
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I'd take a modern 100hp car over any vehicle older than say '05, from a safety perspective. Is a higher horsepower car safer, all other things being equal? Ehh... I doubt it. It gives you one additional method to get out of bad situations, but if you're in a situation where you need to rely on horsepower to prevent a crash, you should probably take a look at your driving and figure out how to avoid that situation in the first place. If you drive higher HP vehicles regularly, it probably feels like it'd be impossible to safely do with less, but, surprisingly, it is.
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Sep 21, 2018 19:19
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anyway this is a pic thread I guess i should post pics not chat. Exposure to 80s mpvs is tolerable mostly in small amounts so i’ll post an 80s euro ford i parked behind which i reallyyyyy wish were my ride, a genuine  
Old Binsby fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 19:56
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