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Spark That Bled posted:Do you want to get into the economic value of a old game magazine? A magazine is a subscription service, it's more analogies to something like xbox live than microtransactions. It was a dumb comparison because you went all "you complain about capitalism yet you participate in it", Do you also think a mortgage is the same thing as a scratch off ticket? The whole point of microtransactions is that they're designed to be accessible with the press of a button and the reward is small enough that you can always spend more. It's not a service, it's a scam.
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Sep 24, 2018 13:59
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Here's someone miles better than Jim Sterling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI1NwL75xLQ He's British and everything, and he's talking about the Neo Geo Mini.
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Sep 24, 2018 13:59
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Oh cool, there's another British guy who does games who's just put a video out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mjFlxMAUlo
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Sep 24, 2018 14:16
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Kim Justice posted:Oh cool, there's another British guy who does games who's just put a video out: Nah, he just sucks.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:27
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Spark That Bled posted:Nah, he just sucks. We get it, you
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Sep 24, 2018 14:37
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StealthArcher posted:We get it, you Look, if everyone here can talk about how lovely Doug Walker is, then I can say that Jim Sterling is lovely too.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:42
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you’re being really annoying
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Sep 24, 2018 14:45
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Spark That Bled posted:Look, if everyone here can talk about how lovely Doug Walker is, then I can say that Jim Sterling is lovely too. and apparently the best way to talk about how lovely jim sterling is by...defending microtransactions 
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Sep 24, 2018 14:48
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:and apparently the best way to talk about how lovely jim sterling is by...defending microtransactions Jim Sterling's shittiness has nothing to do with microtransactions, that stupidity was wholly yours.
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Sep 24, 2018 14:49
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are we at “I didn’t say that thing I said one page ago” levels of discourse now
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Sep 24, 2018 14:54
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Augus posted:are we at “I didn’t say that thing I said one page ago” levels of discourse now Okay, here's the argument as I see it: Jim Sterling releases his millionth video bitching about microtransactions. People talk about getting tired of seeing Jim Sterling bitch about microtransactions. DSP says microtransactions should be stopped because they used to be "free" as cheat codes. My point was that cheat codes were usually found in game magazines and on tips hotlines, which cost money. Therefore, they were not "free" as DSP claimed they were, but being sold on to the consumer by other people. And I also mentioned Action Replay and Game Genie, third party devices which let players cheat at games. The game companies just cut out the middlemen by offering boosts and items as microtransactions. They decided to sell their cheats directly to the consumer. Spark That Bled fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 15:01
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you know what you're right. i apologize. cheat codes are in fact a bad comparison to microtransactions. cheat codes are infinite use. you can punch them in to your hearts content in games that have them. microtransactions are almost universally limited time or limited use. once they are used up, they are gone forever and you need to purchase more to get the same perk. this all ignores other things like magazines having way the gently caress more in them than just cheat codes, or the advent of the internet removing the 'but you had to buy magazines to get the codes' from the equation as early as 1993 for myself and even earlier for early adopters or hell, bbs users as far back as the 80s.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:14
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:you know what you're right. i apologize. cheat codes are in fact a bad comparison to microtransactions. There you go, you made an actual salient point for once in your life!
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Sep 24, 2018 15:17
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Spark That Bled posted:There you go, you made an actual salient point for once in your life! imagine talking to an actual human being like this over loving video games
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Sep 24, 2018 15:49
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'cheat codes are just like microtransactions because you tended to need to get a magazine for them' 'well magazines had more than just that code, or were big rear end multi-game 'code books', and then once you got them then they were static so you could just share them with countless people thus creating all the cheat code websites that were totally free' 'well whoopdee fuckity doo look who managed to strop drooling into a bucket to rub his last two brain cells together' normal interactions with people
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Sep 24, 2018 15:52
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sexpig by night posted:imagine talking to an actual human being like this over loving video games DEEP STATE PLOT posted:no they weren't you dumb motherfucker OmanyteJackson posted:
Augus posted:Covering myself in feces to own Jim Sterling
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Sep 24, 2018 15:54
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If Capcom actually gave a poo poo about people who didn't have the time to unlock all the moves in their game they would have included a mode where all the moves are unlocked from the beginning. Any way you slice it Capcom are trying to charge people for the solution to a problem they themselves have designed so they can gently caress right off.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:24
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Laughing at people defending microtransactions itt.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:41
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Mr Phillby posted:Any way you slice it Capcom are trying to charge people for the solution to a problem they themselves have designed so they can gently caress right off. The original point was that this probably isn't even the case, they've done this before and it was just a dummy trap for "I want everything but don't want to actually go and get the red orbs to do it" when the game absolutely sprayed them all over you. The microtransactions suck rear end regardless because they're dumb, pointless not-cheats but everyone generally already understands that greedy microtransactions are stupid, so my main deal was with the really eye-rolling way Jim phrased it like "WOW ARENTCHA GLAD THEY'RE DOING THIS NOW, IT'S 100% INDISPUTABLY GONNA MAKE THE GAME THIS AND THAT" when it's like, duder, they did it already, it was stupid, but it affected the game zilch. I don't know how the hell people have turned this into "No actually dumb penny pinching microtransactions are good" spiels though, lordy loo.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:56
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They retroactively added them to a previous game without changing the balance of that game to accommodate them, yes. It's not beyond the realms of feasibility that Capcom might alter this new, unreleased game to encourage microtransactions, despite what people who've already tried it have seen the balance to be. Weren't Capcom the ones who locked out a game's lovely monetisation bullshit for pre-release reviewers so they couldn't warn their readers about it?
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Sep 24, 2018 17:06
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Because if you try and refute a point made against microtransactions because it was dumb, you automatically are cast into the pro camp and ostracized.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:07
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Dabir posted:Weren't Capcom the ones who locked out a game's lovely monetisation bullshit for pre-release reviewers so they couldn't warn their readers about it? That was Square Enix and DX: Mankind Divided I think. Capcom is more infamous for on-disc content they wait forever to release as DLC.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:11
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This just like that time the Jedi and the Sith fought each other.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:20
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Spark That Bled posted:Because if you try and refute a point made against microtransactions because it was dumb, you automatically are cast into the pro camp and ostracized. "This debate has nuance!" I scream while wallowing in poo poo.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:27
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RareAcumen posted:This just like that time the Jedi and the Sith fought each other. Spark That Bled is just the tank Marvin got to shoot out it's own floor.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:36
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Spark That Bled posted:After you made the worst argument against microtransactions anyone has ever made? I wish Jim Sterling would make a video about how you should continue posting
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Sep 24, 2018 17:39
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The disappearance of cheat codes I think has less to do with micro-transactions, but rather more to do with other trends that followed before it (the prominence/focus of online multiplayer, achievements, etc.). There's a lot of modern games, triple-A or otherwise, that don't have micro-transactions or cheat codes. I can't think of any new console games that I've played recently where I saw there were cheats (at least to my knowledge).
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Sep 24, 2018 17:50
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Nobody here is pro MT though, so why are you all arguing. If it's like DMC4:SE where it doesn't impact gameplay at all and it's just a shortcut it isn't a big issue. But still scummy (And what used to be a cheatcode or something like that). If it does impact ingame progress it's actively lovely, we have 1 report that you get plenty orbs so far.; but that is liable to change. Zedd fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 17:52
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Spark That Bled posted:Because if you try and refute a point made against microtransactions because it was dumb, you automatically are cast into the pro camp and ostracized. Just a thought, but perhaps it is because you keep antagonizing people who disagree with you. Also, until we discover that Sterdust covered up the actions of a child molester he will never be as awful as Doug Walker.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:52
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Kim Justice posted:Oh cool, there's another British guy who does games who's just put a video out: Hell yes! More Jim Sterling! He isn't as cool as Ashens and I can't watch too many of his videos in a row since they're a bit samey, but I love this guy's attitude.
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Sep 24, 2018 18:15
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sexpig by night posted:imagine talking to an actual human being like this over loving video games
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Sep 24, 2018 18:22
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Max Wilco posted:The disappearance of cheat codes I think has less to do with micro-transactions, but rather more to do with other trends that followed before it (the prominence/focus of online multiplayer, achievements, etc.). There's a lot of modern games, triple-A or otherwise, that don't have micro-transactions or cheat codes. I can't think of any new console games that I've played recently where I saw there were cheats (at least to my knowledge). Yeah, the last few games I can think of with cheats were Ratchet and Clank 2016 and the Uncharted series And for the latter you've gotta beat the game on harder difficulties to unlock grabbing any gun you want from a menu or invincibility or one-shot kills. 
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Sep 24, 2018 18:33
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Max Wilco posted:The disappearance of cheat codes I think has less to do with micro-transactions, but rather more to do with other trends that followed before it (the prominence/focus of online multiplayer, achievements, etc.). There's a lot of modern games, triple-A or otherwise, that don't have micro-transactions or cheat codes. I can't think of any new console games that I've played recently where I saw there were cheats (at least to my knowledge). My understanding was that cheat codes existed in the first place not for the player's benefit but for the programmers when they were stitching together early games with clunky, primitive methods and programmed in those shortcuts to, for example, let them skip forward to later levels to play-test. It was only later that they filtered down to the general public at which point they were mostly kept around for the laugh as development methods became more refined and were removed for a combination of reasons like developers wanting tighter control over the player and not wanting to go through the hassle of programming in superfluous cheats in increasingly complicated games.
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Sep 24, 2018 18:37
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Yardbomb posted:The original point was that this probably isn't even the case, they've done this before and it was just a dummy trap for "I want everything but don't want to actually go and get the red orbs to do it" when the game absolutely sprayed them all over you. The microtransactions suck rear end regardless because they're dumb, pointless not-cheats but everyone generally already understands that greedy microtransactions are stupid, so my main deal was with the really eye-rolling way Jim phrased it like "WOW ARENTCHA GLAD THEY'RE DOING THIS NOW, IT'S 100% INDISPUTABLY GONNA MAKE THE GAME THIS AND THAT" when it's like, duder, they did it already, it was stupid, but it affected the game zilch. I don't know how the hell people have turned this into "No actually dumb penny pinching microtransactions are good" spiels though, lordy loo.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:18
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Mr Phillby posted:Even in the case that the game's balance isn't hosed to hell to encourage purchases there is still zero justification for charging for this poo poo and it still sucks. Well yes, I already said that in that same post.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:19
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Spark That Bled posted:Because if you try and refute a point made against microtransactions because it was dumb, you automatically are cast into the pro camp and ostracized. too bad
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Sep 24, 2018 19:38
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah, the last few games I can think of with cheats were Ratchet and Clank 2016 and the Uncharted series And for the latter you've gotta beat the game on harder difficulties to unlock grabbing any gun you want from a menu or invincibility or one-shot kills. You also have to collect all the gold bolts to unlock cheats in Ratchet and Clank '16. I had to look it up, since I played through the game, but I didn't remember that it had cheats. Even then, the only cheats are adjusting game speed, infinite ammo, and invulnerability. The original games did that too, but I know in the first one, you could do inputs do toggle big-head mode, mirrored levels, etc. khwarezm posted:My understanding was that cheat codes existed in the first place not for the player's benefit but for the programmers when they were stitching together early games with clunky, primitive methods and programmed in those shortcuts to, for example, let them skip forward to later levels to play-test. It was only later that they filtered down to the general public at which point they were mostly kept around for the laugh as development methods became more refined and were removed for a combination of reasons like developers wanting tighter control over the player and not wanting to go through the hassle of programming in superfluous cheats in increasingly complicated games. I remember a couple of older games gave you a debug mode, where you could do some neat stuff. I think Sonic 2 let you toggle debug mode and paint rings and stuff around the level. Sonic 3 (the standalone version of it) had a level select, but the input window for it is so difficult (and probably impossible on the GameCube controller I tried doing it on) that I think most people would give up on it. I think that was done, though, because the level select shows the stages that got cut for Sonic and Knuckles. The one game that springs to mind in terms of having a bunch of cheats is Neversoft's Spider-Man games, where you could unlock the costumes and get invincibility via the code menu. You could find codes online, but some of them I think were hidden in the game. But yeah, I think it just sort of died out over time because of the reasons you mentioned, at least on the console side of things. On the PC side, there's still modding and things like CheatEngine, but it seems like fewer games give you access to console commands. Actually, modding is an interesting topic, because it seems like game mods aren't as prolific as they once were. Bethesda seems like they're the only developer who's embraced that scene (for better or worse), but devs (or possibly publishers) don't seem to provide tools to let people make their own levels or mods as much anymore.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:46
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It's funny that for all their money seeking stuff like horse armour and selling mods(with the tiniest share going to the modder ,though I think their latest attempt was a bit better), Bethesda games still give you access to the dev console for cheating. It was only in Fallout 4 that they stopped achievements from triggering when it was used and IIRC only for that session so you could cheat and restart the game and still get them if you care about stuff like that.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:54
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Hel posted:It's funny that for all their money seeking stuff like horse armour and selling mods(with the tiniest share going to the modder ,though I think their latest attempt was a bit better), Bethesda games still give you access to the dev console for cheating. It was only in Fallout 4 that they stopped achievements from triggering when it was used and IIRC only for that session so you could cheat and restart the game and still get them if you care about stuff like that. They also made it so that achievements are locked out if you are running some mods (it marks you save game with a little star or something), but I think there have been workaround made for that. New Vegas also did that where it would disable achievements if you toggled the console on. Problem with that (well, maybe with any Bethesda-engine game) is that you sometimes need the console just to fix something in the game. I did that quest clearing the deathclaws out of the rock quarry, but I had to resurrect the quest-giver because he died while I was off doing that.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:05
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No way was I collecting novelty bottlecaps the hard way.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:42
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