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Chalks posted:The core mechanic is using a network of systems to obtain some sort of resource. Trade is just one way of justifying the mechanic but there are plenty of ways gestalts could do the same. Agreed. Maybe give them a penalty to trade income to represent the lack of consumerist demand, but you can still call a trade route an "overstock pipeline" or something and have it represent surplus resources that are being routed to areas of higher demand, and the {{resources}} you recieve from it are requisitioning efficiencies or somesuch nonsense.
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Sep 28, 2018 14:44
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ChickenWing posted:Agreed. Maybe give them a penalty to trade income to represent the lack of consumerist demand, but you can still call a trade route an "overstock pipeline" or something and have it represent surplus resources that are being routed to areas of higher demand, and the {{resources}} you recieve from it are requisitioning efficiencies or somesuch nonsense.
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Sep 28, 2018 15:20
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Rather than producing resources, you could perhaps use the gestalt connectivity idea to generate a particular resource which is spent on specific buildings, edicts etc, which represent a focus of the gestalt's attention on an area. So, say, a really powerful starbase module which adds extra sensor range, combat buffs etc. Command ship modules which require upkeep of that resource but which provide fleetwide buffs. Supercharging planets to get them to develop faster etc. For hives you could perhaps have them be able to project psychic horribleness from their planets or stations by spending their brainpower reserves, which causes unrest in enemy population centres, given that we now have precedent (and presumably visualization) for the idea that stations can project effects over multiple systems. Hell you could even have specific weapons or armies that require it in upkeep so you can have ships and armies that literally shoot brainwaves at the enemy, or electronic warfare weapons for robots. There's a bunch of cool stuff you could come up with based on the idea that you're dealing with an incredibly powerful single intelligence that spans across entire sections of the galaxy, if such a thing were to focus its attention on a place. Especially as one type is literally psychic and the other is based on incredibly advanced electronic communications. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 15:42
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Splicer posted:I'd prefer them distinct. At minimum I'd prefer if they pulled from and generated different resources to standard empires, like relays and science for robots and attention lobes and a flat resource boost for organic hive minds. I love the idea that cutting off and isolating a large part of a gestalt empire would impact their ability to function more than it would a normal empire. It would seem very odd to have a system for networks and then have the empires that are literal network of beings not use it at all.
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Sep 28, 2018 15:54
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Chalks posted:I love the idea that cutting off and isolating a large part of a gestalt empire would impact their ability to function more than it would a normal empire. It would seem very odd to have a system for networks and then have the empires that are literal network of beings not use it at all.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:08
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Maybe gestalts could have some sort of hive mind effect where in place of trade, large concentrations of pops generate a psychic/wireless field that could stretch to cover several lightyears away and provide bonuses to resource gathering/fleets in that area. It would create an incentive for gestalts to establish their empires as clusters around population centers, rather than one large empire that tapers off in efficiency toward the fringes. Flavorwise, I think gestalts would fare much better when isolated from the capital, as cooperation is inherent to their nature rather than something that has to be enforced or incentivized top-down.
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Sep 28, 2018 16:28
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Slashrat posted:Flavorwise, I think gestalts would fare much better when isolated from the capital, as cooperation is inherent to their nature rather than something that has to be enforced or incentivized top-down. I would have suggested entirely the opposite, personally, because normal empires are already separated to a degree, the whole point of gestalts is that they are constantly connected to the whole. It's like the borg, they go nuts if they're not constantly plugged into the hive. Think of them more like an ant colony than cooperative humans. To be honest I'd kinda suggest that if gestalts can't get a connection bridge to the capital, their colonies should really suffer for it. For humans that means they can't trade, for gestalts it means your terminal can't connect to the mainframe. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 16:38
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Wiz posted:We're trying to move away from gestalts just having reskinned versions of everyone else's mechanics. We're going to focus more on giving them their own unique mechanics instead. What mechanics would replace the trade route? I get the desire to keep things distinct and unique, but it also feels like there are a lot of core mechanics that gestalts simply miss out on. The proposed situation where gestalt empires deal with 2.1 style pirates is a good example. Being different for the sake of being different isn't always good. Is your plan to give gestalts a more comprehensive overhaul in the future?
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Sep 28, 2018 17:55
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The networks sort of make thematic sense for a gestalt, but gestalts are already psychically connected and everpresent through the shroud. It's not like you're physically or metaphysically growing nerves or conduits to other worlds. Off the cuff brainstorm: Sectors could have Connectivity ratings; presence of colonized worlds, certain structures/starbase buildings, and adjacent Connected sectors improve Connectivity; Connectivity provides bonuses to all aspects of a gestalt. ps, mole person corpse caves are everything i ever wanted <3 TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 18:59
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Bit late on this but...Truga posted:
...it's funny how I really don't expecting anything even remotely related to a country such as mine, when I think of a far-future sci-fi setting like that of Stellaris and then  ...I get reminded of the old: "Sci-fi shouldn't just predict the future, but also prevent it" axiom.
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Sep 28, 2018 19:05
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jesus christ this hits incredibly close to home, make one for minerals too and it's, uh, 
"perfect"
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Chalks posted:I love the idea that cutting off and isolating a large part of a gestalt empire would impact their ability to function more than it would a normal empire. It would seem very odd to have a system for networks and then have the empires that are literal network of beings not use it at all. You don't even need it to give bonus resources, you could even have it be a system that works like rogue servitor happiness where you need a good network for full efficiency and a compromised network gives across the board penalties. Wiz, to address your goal of making gestalts different: that's great to hear! This game has gotten better and better the more different ways to play you've added. That said... we're all excited about gestalts "trade networks" not because we want to reskin a system for the sake of having the system- it's exciting because the system itself seems very suited to simulating aspects of gestalts. Obviously not civilian trade, but some form of gestalt consciousness itself. Might be worth considering from that angle.
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Sep 28, 2018 20:58
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Wouldn't Rogue Servitors want these consumer goods to keep their biotrophies happy?
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Sep 28, 2018 21:16
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So I tried something new - for me that is - yesterday: I started a game as a Determined Exterminator on a large map with maxed out numbers of AI. I lost real loving hard, only the 2nd time I decided that I just straight up lost and quit. I was immediately hemmed in on all sides. Decided who my first target was, but they joined a defensive pact with another neighbor and when I declared war I could easily take each one individually, but I was losing too much space to the other and I ended up just ping-ponging back and forth between them trying to maintain the status quo. I waited, built back up and declared war again, but this time my initial target had upgraded all of his stations to the next level and I couldn't hang, so I switched targets to the other ally who had lovely stations and was able to take him out pretty easily. But as I was consolidating my gains my 3rd neighbor declared war and wiped my fleet out with ease. I had so little space I decided to throw in the towel. Lesson learned - kill the guy that isn't in a defensive pact first.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:34
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You waited too long to declare war. They can't join a pact if they're at war.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:42
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ConfusedUs posted:You waited too long to declare war. They can't join a pact if they're at war. That was part of it too, but just as I thought I was ready they joined the pact. I'm... not very good at building early militaries. Overall I made some real bad choices. It was still cool that it was really challenging. I look forward to trying that again soon.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:01
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First rule of Exterminators/Assimilators: Find your nearest neighbor and kill them immediately. The resources from absorbing another empire early on will give you the boost you need to avoid getting crushed once everybody else cottons on to your existence. Take too long and your neighbors will all make defensive pacts and then they're total pain in the rear end. Also, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring of "Don't give gestalts trade routes", because that seems like one of the fiddly systems that I play gestalt specifically to get away from.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:02
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Shadowlyger posted:Also, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring of "Don't give gestalts trade routes", because that seems like one of the fiddly systems that I play gestalt specifically to get away from. It would be great if hives/machines/whatever comes with the DLC get wildly different mechanics for internal management. They don't have to be reskinned trade routes
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Sep 29, 2018 00:14
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I could see Servitors having trade routes. But yeah maybe not needed for assimilators and similar.
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Sep 29, 2018 00:33
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They should have international trade only maybe?
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Sep 29, 2018 00:34
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I just did a whole bunch of debugging just to find out that apparently the followup for the ancient hulk event can't fire for either machine intellgience or gestalt consciousness for no apparent reason. And the game decides not to tell you this unless you try firing the event through console. Punished for just playing with machine friends 
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Sep 29, 2018 04:29
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Hives are punished in general. Worse general results from events, and all their stuff is Devouring Swarm flavoured when it isn't renamed normal empire. Machines at least have flavour that is their own and can be killing or non killing. Their strength is meant to be their growth, but they also lack the production bonus of happiness. They lack Influence, despite receiving +1 over the baseline. Adaptation tree is worthwhile, but you can't call it 'their own'. They're in a weird place. I think they'll continue to be even after.
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Sep 29, 2018 05:15
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I wish there were an option to play a species who just happened to be robots but were otherwise normal pops. I suppose this could get imbalanced because having benefits from happiness as well as being able to blitz an entire planet full would be a factor, but will that be an issue with Le Guin? This would of course be a trait, like Post-Apocalyptic and so on, but this would basically be to engage in the flavor/the buildable pop style while retaining individualistic behavior. Let us be the Androsynth or a buncha runaway Asimovbots. Or the weird anime robot people.
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Sep 29, 2018 10:45
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Nessus posted:Let us be the Androsynth or a buncha runaway Asimovbots. Or the weird anime robot people. Androsynth are so silly. We do not *tell stories* a lot about them. No more Androsynth *stories*.
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Sep 29, 2018 17:38
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The Androsynth aren't robots. They're human clones.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:13
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Rynoto posted:I just did a whole bunch of debugging just to find out that apparently the followup for the ancient hulk event can't fire for either machine intellgience or gestalt consciousness for no apparent reason. And the game decides not to tell you this unless you try firing the event through console. What's the event id?
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Sep 29, 2018 18:32
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Epicurius posted:The Androsynth aren't robots. They're human clones. We don't talk about the Androsynth
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Sep 29, 2018 18:39
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there should really be an orz/arilou category of regular/fallen empire. super-dimensional beings who might want to uplift you, might want to eat you. and they don't make any sense when you try to discern their motives.
Zane fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 19:15
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Standard "talking with another empire" screen: Message is "Do you want to see our surprising *toys*?". Response choices are "No!!" and "Do not!!". Zane posted:there should really be an orz/arilou category of regular/fallen empire. super-dimensional beings who might want to uplift you, might want to eat you. and they don't make any sense when you try to discern their motives. Almost sounds like a cross between the Shroud entities and the Unbidden.
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Sep 29, 2018 19:28
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Darkrenown posted:What's the event id? distar.1000 , it's the Vechtar Zavonia chain. What's happening is that the debris_gasgiant_category_temp anomaly ("Ancient Hulk) leads directly to distar.1000 and the Mardak Vol, but Machine Intelligence and Gestalts are entirely locked out of that chain. So for them, the anomaly resolves in a poof of tears and bitter recriminations, with no further comment.
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Sep 29, 2018 19:56
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Yep, that's the exact one. It ends the anomaly without a popup or anything if you're one of those two it can't fire for. Rynoto fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 19:58
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Hey Wiz I got one question about the really lovely naval patrol system you detailed some. Right now there is fairly big cost to undock fleets from starbases that have maintenance and cost reductions, something that may outweigh the return you may get from using a sufficiently sized fleet to secure the more valuable trade routes. Obviously exact numbers are easily likely to change by the time Le Guin comes out, but are you all considering fiddling with the involved costs or benefits to ensure it is worth it to patrol and not just leave stuff unguarded in the end. This may not even be an issue at all with how numbers turn out anyway but was curious on the non-specifics of it.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:12
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I could see the lowered fleet upkeep being changed to apply whenever the fleet was merely inside your own borders, though it would take some reworking of the fleet upkeep modules.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:30
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Add the same range effect as the trade hub, fleets are cheap whenever they're within x jumps of a berthing station. Or make fleets retain any cost deductions from their home base when they're on patrol, so you end up setting up dedicated patrol bases.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:34
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Zane posted:there should really be an orz/arilou category of regular/fallen empire. super-dimensional beings who might want to uplift you, might want to eat you. and they don't make any sense when you try to discern their motives. Yea, the Orz would be the Unbidden/end of the cycle. It's an extradimensional being that's trying to find a way into the universe to devour it.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:49
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This game finally have enough content to be worth playing?
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Sep 29, 2018 21:00
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Arglebargle III posted:This game finally have enough content to be worth playing? I enjoy it.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:01
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Arglebargle III posted:This game finally have enough content to be worth playing? I've played this poo poo out of this game the past year after being super disappointed by it at release. It's real good. That said if you're trying to get back into it it might be worth holding off until the next big release. So much going to change that many people in this thread are just putting the game down and are waiting patiently. Come back in ~6 months if this matters to you.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:05
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Arglebargle III posted:This game finally have enough content to be worth playing? no
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Sep 29, 2018 21:07
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Arglebargle III posted:This game finally have enough content to be worth playing? /me looks at time played /me sees over 400 hours The only thing I regret is there isn't enough content for another 400 hours.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:07
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Arglebargle III posted:This game finally have enough content to be worth playing? It's got more content than Star Citizen. Serious answer, there's enough content that I keep making new empires, I've only seen an endgame crisis once (Unless you count the Space Clowns  ), and I still don't mind the early game at all.I'm at 500 hours and I've started getting into the "Mod it to the gills" stage of Paradox gameplay. I keep telling myself it's just until LeGuin comes out, then I'll go back to vanilla. I'm not sure I could really enjoy the game without my strike craft destroyers and ancient precursor planets, though.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:19
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