Good and Easy to Win: The Trade War Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Good and Easy to Win: The Trade War Thread

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

Lambert posted:

There's also Amazon forcing their suppliers to not increase prices for existing product lines.

Wal-Mart nearly put vlassic out of business. They basically demand that their suppliers reduce cost every year and really, what are they going to do? Say no and let their products vanish from the shelves of the biggest retailer ever?

# ? Sep 21, 2018 00:02

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 19:06

BlueBlazer: Apr 1, 2010

Lambert posted:

There's also Amazon forcing their suppliers to not increase prices for existing product lines.

They hired the last generation of Wal-Mart execs to run their purchasing division. We shouldn't be surprised.

# ? Sep 21, 2018 02:11

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

caps on caps on caps posted:

Trump is playing Europa Universalis with a country twice as big and powerful as everyone else. Actually pretty accurate description, thank you.

Does that make him the Junior Partner in a Personal Union with Russia?

# ? Sep 21, 2018 07:36

Haramstufe Rot: Jun 24, 2016

Lambert posted:

I don't think you know all that much about geography. And I think Trumeo is working on diminishing the "powerful" aspect as best he can.

yes, my post was clearly about... geography?

# ? Sep 21, 2018 10:46

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

tino posted:

I follow ebike news, some of the vendors are saying the price will be $100 higher post tariff. That's about 5-10% of the bike cost. Even company like Oyama which is a Taiwanese company.

That cuz a lot of the Taiwan bike brands do production in China. 5-10% makes sense as well if you consider that they will try to pass on part of the cost to the end user while making the hit to themselves slightly less. Everyone suffers a little as opposed to one guy getting hosed.

# ? Sep 21, 2018 16:24

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

There is great visual representation in Logistics and Supply Chain Management. What you're describing with the bikes is what's supposed to happen in a horizontal supply chain. And there is another for the gently caress your suppliers re Walmart & Amazon in the same chapter.

But for the life of me I can't find my copy.

# ? Sep 21, 2018 16:35

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

friendbot2000 posted:

Isn't Chinas dconomic growth basically a giant smoke znd mirrors game driven by nonstop infrasture development? They have entire cities that no one lives in. I was under the impression that their GDP is very much a Potemkin Village.

Try as they might, the Chinese have a ways to go before as large part of their GDP is full of air as within more developed economies with their massive FIRE sectors etc. And they can stay in the game the game for longer since they have far more control over their own economy than western states have over theirs. It's more like people are afraid that soon we will have one more gigantic, globally connected economy that is capable of sudden and deep crises.

# ? Sep 21, 2018 20:42

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

uncop posted:

. It's more like people are afraid that soon we will have one more gigantic, globally connected economy that is capable of sudden and deep crises.

Its already here.

When they describe kanban in the text books, they use the analogy of a lake. When you have lots of inventory the lake is deep and one can sail easily from side to side over the rocks at the bottom. When you have low inventory the water level is very low and one must constantly steer else the boat crash against the rocks and sink.

The possibility of rapid catastrophic failure is built into just in time.

The Glumslinger posted:

https://twitter.com/DPAQreport/status/1043365279080820736

# ? Sep 22, 2018 06:29

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

BrandorKP posted:

The possibility of rapid catastrophic failure is built into just in time.

How dominated by Just In Time is China yet though? Seems like I hear the exact opposite: they overproduce stuff to hold down unemployment, and start using it for vanity infrastructure projects (again, to create employment) or dumping it around the world at rock-bottom prices once their warehouses are full. I'm sure there are increasing numbers of industries (like all the tech stuff) that depend on JIT inputs, but the core state-controlled industry seems old-timey and resistant to change.

# ? Sep 22, 2018 08:48

Lambert: Apr 15, 2018; by Fluffdaddy; Fallen Rib

lol @ spending money on vanity infrastructure projects instead of useless military projects.

# ? Sep 22, 2018 12:29

SaTaMaS: Apr 18, 2003

Lambert posted:

lol @ spending money on vanity infrastructure projects instead of useless military projects.

lol @ trying to dominate other countries by invading instead of just offering loans to build them infrastructure they can't afford and then taking it over when they default

# ? Sep 22, 2018 15:55

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

uncop posted:

How dominated by Just In Time is China yet though? Seems like I hear the exact opposite: they overproduce stuff to hold down unemployment, and start using it for vanity infrastructure projects (again, to create employment) or dumping it around the world at rock-bottom prices once their warehouses are full. I'm sure there are increasing numbers of industries (like all the tech stuff) that depend on JIT inputs, but the core state-controlled industry seems old-timey and resistant to change.

I'm more worried about the larger system of international trade and business. I might get to that effort post this week.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 18:46

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

I like how infrastructure is practically now a dirty word at this point.

# ? Sep 24, 2018 20:03

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1045068062737801218?s=19

LMFAO at that name.

Also blowing up the American car industry with car tariffs on Canada.

# ? Sep 27, 2018 02:02

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

hypnophant posted:

Given your perspective, I would really love to hear your thoughts on the below:

Because we backed off JIT (not completely ) but a bit and how supply chains work incorporated more warehousing and carried inventory costs money.

I wrote this several years ago eventually it turned into a series of posts that predicted the supply chain crisis:

�� posted:

�Systems, Business, Trade, Kanban, and Political Economy

This a bit rambling and it's not polished and it's probably not coherant yet. But here it goes.

There is a very useful concept from the Foundations of Cybernetics I�d like to start with. For every technology, be it a physical technology or a conceptual one there is a corresponding set of ideas and concepts, an (or almost) ideology, that allows one to use the technology in question most efficiently. Basically when one has a tool one also has to have a suite of concepts to use that tool most effectively. With that in mind I�m going go all the way back to the beginning. I think one needs to look at the technologies and historical events that gave rise to systems thinking to really understand it. This is a very, very simplified representation of a steam cycle.

Steam cycle

A boiler, boils and then superheats steam, it runs through the turbines which turn a generator, the steam is condensed and then as water it is pumped back into the boiler. Look at the diagram. Obviously the system and the drawing is informed heavily by thermodynamics. But I�m trying to communicate the following characteristics: The circular nature of the cycle, the flows of steam and water represented by lines, and the stocks of various liquids inside each of the parts. The lines showing flows between individual components. This diagram omits controls, but I�ll get to that in a sec. Anyways stocks are how much poo poo (water in a tank, steam in a boiler, etc) X things. Flows are how fast poo poo is moving X things per second. Flows can indicate what will happen in a system, but you need stocks to know when it will happen. Now one of the ways to control systems, is valves. Valves can do things like open and close. Or they can be throttled. Or a line can take pressure feed back from a pipe against a spring tension (or theses days a controller) and keep a flow at a particular rate (a analog solution). These are controls. Controls let one maintain the output one wants across variable inputs. One uses controls to keep a system from blowing up basically.

I�m going to play fast and loose with the history here but eventually WWII happens. During the war there is a lot of development in maths and we get tools like linear programming, that let's one maximize or minimize for desired values. There also is a problem after the war. How the hell does one get a rocket to fly where one want�s it to? Control theory solves this problem. They take concepts, particularly the math for how that pressure control valve works and they apply it to rocketry. Controls theory is how they solve the problem of getting rockets to fly straight. See those simple valves, can be expressed as terms in differential equations. That same math can describe rockets, electronics, etc. All of these things (and some other concepts from other disciplines like ships stability) eventually come together and form a discipline called Operations research. The controls / stock and flow modeling part sometimes gets called the �Differential Equations Paradigm� and eventually we can digitize the industrial controllers with it. Eventually we turn this poo poo on everything. In business operations research gets used as �management science�. In the sixties Kennedy�s eggheads, the whiz kids, this is the way they�re thinking , the tools they are using. Rand Corp pioneers a lot of this type of modeling. Eventually it becomes one of the standard ways we look at business. Managers use linear programming to maximize production and profits. Businesses are modeled using ideas from the circular stock and flow . That steam cycle, the suite of concepts used to describe that, can also be used to describe a business or business cycles. In fact when executives talk about creating value designing systems is what they mean. And I don�t mean I�m inferring this. I mean I�ve asked, and they give this answer. They are creating circular systems that take in inputs and spit out money. Some of these models get pretty sophisticated look at things like SCOR as good example. And I would remind you this type of supply chain modeling is what makes apple, one of the most valuable companies in the world. It�s what Tim Cook is good at.

Something vitally important to understand. A lot of these models are constructed and then spread. They then get applied and even taught by people who couldn�t have made them and don�t really understand them.
Anyway systems thinking gets used to model economics and trade, the economist Wille posted here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3862896&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post488017309
Is a great example amd what prompted this post. And important because it shows how compatible systems thinking is with dialectic though, because of the circular nature of the model. A number of times he talks about using stocks and flows to model trade and currency flows after the switch to fiat currency. He talks at length about using stock and flow models (and I think he is applying them correctly and reaching correct conclusions with them). Think tanks, consultancies (McKinsey is a good current example) they all use models built on these ideas. I�ve done some simple modeling in this area for grad school.

Anyway eventually somebody (the Japanese, but I don�t know enough about the specific people to tell which ones, Toyota is a big player) takes this thinking and comes up with the idea of minimizing inventory (a stock) by balancing logistical flows. One can really supercharge a business� return on investment by bringing it�s inventory holding costs down as low as possible. This idea is called Kanban. Now the principle here is basically just that pressure control valve I told you about earlier. Flows are controlled to reduce the need for inventory. This idea becomes wide spread. Process management (which is more than Kanban and proceeds it) becomes widespread and largely in conjunction with growing globalization. Something to have in mind. You and I are if we are employees are stocks to be minimized to maximize cash flow and return to shareholders.

I wrote all that to say this. Now we have business systems that are very sophisticated, they use models like SCOR, to minimize their inventories (and again it�s worth noting inventory can be considered include employees) and make more money . But systems with very low stocks tend to be less stable. In physical systems, like the steam cycle, poo poo blows the gently caress up when things go wrong. Now in business where we have managers applying models they didn�t construct and are merely applying (hmmm now that�s familiar) and those models tend reduce stocks, they�re reducing stability in the system.

When it gets too hard to steer around the rocks, sometimes we hit the rocks. And this is the underlying thing that�s been worrying me about this escalating trade war.�

Anyway we got burned by turning as much stock into flows (Intransit boxes on containerships) as we could. But that�s efficient and we�ve started moving away from it. Forms now carry a bit more inventory so we have more stable but less efficient supply chains. Good analysis I�ve seen puts this at like 15-30% of the inflation that happened. So it�s not a sole explanation.

Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Dec 30, 2023

# ? Sep 29, 2018 05:12

uncop: Oct 23, 2010

Great post, shows off how any corporation that relies on just in time inputs is put in a precarious position when the business environment of their suppliers becomes unpredictable. It�s also pretty meaningful how steel and aluminum, extremely common materials, are at the center of this trade war. That will have some serious ripple effects all throughout the economy.

# ? Sep 29, 2018 10:40

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta/canada-u-s-make-progress-in-bid-to-save-nafta-no-deal-yet-sources-idUSKCN1M90RH?il=0

quote:

A second Ottawa source - who also asked to remain anonymous - said the two sides were still trying to work out disagreements over a dispute resolution mechanism that Canada says is vital and the United States wants to scrap.

In exchange for a compromise on the mechanism, the government of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is set to bow to a U.S. demand to offer significantly more access to Canada�s protected dairy market, said the source.

This could cause problems for Trudeau, since the politically influential Canadian farming lobby says it opposes any concessions. Government insiders say it is likely Ottawa would have to offer significant compensation.

Looks like we may have a deal with Canada, but Trudeau is going to face the wrath of his country's powerful dairy sector a few weeks ahead of elections.

# ? Sep 29, 2018 21:19

Mr Luxury Yacht: Apr 16, 2012

OhFunny posted:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta/canada-u-s-make-progress-in-bid-to-save-nafta-no-deal-yet-sources-idUSKCN1M90RH?il=0

Looks like we may have a deal with Canada, but Trudeau is going to face the wrath of his country's powerful dairy sector a few weeks ahead of elections.

The next Canadian federal election isn't for over a year.

Which is going to be interesting because the second place finisher for the Conservatives in the last leadership contest just announced he's starting a new party based around hatred of immigrants and terminating dairy supply management.

Personally I'm fine with throwing the dairy board under the bus if it means keeping a dispute resolution mechanism because Trump has 100% proved that the US can be relied on without one.

Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 29, 2018

# ? Sep 29, 2018 21:28

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

The next Canadian federal election isn't for over a year.

Which is going to be interesting because the second place finisher for the Conservatives in the last leadership contest just announced he's starting a new party based around hatred of immigrants and terminating dairy supply management.

Personally I'm fine with throwing the dairy board under the bus if it means keeping a dispute resolution mechanism because Trump has 100% proved that the US can be relied on without one.

Quebec elections are October 1st.

49% of Canada's dairy farms are in Quebec, so I think Trudeau's party is going to eat poo poo there.

# ? Sep 29, 2018 21:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Really nice. I'm just doing typos and one fact check here. There are a bunch of order and composition things but this is an impressive summary of the situation.

BrandorKP posted:

Systems, Business, Trade, Kanban, and Political Economy

This a bit rambling and it's not polished and it's probably not coherent yet. But here it goes.

There is a very useful concept from the Foundations of Cybernetics I�d like to start with. For every technology, be it a physical technology or a conceptual one there is a corresponding set of ideas and concepts, an (or almost) ideology, that allows one to use the technology in question most efficiently. Basically when one has a tool one also has to have a suite of concepts to use that tool most effectively. With that in mind I�m going go all the way back to the beginning. I think one needs to look at the technologies and historical events that gave rise to systems thinking to really understand it. This is a very, very simplified representation of a steam cycle.

Steam cycle

A boiler, boils and then superheats steam, it runs through the turbines which turn a generator, the steam is condensed and then as water it is pumped back into the boiler. Look at the diagram. Obviously the system and the drawing is informed heavily by thermodynamics. But I�m trying to communicate the following characteristics: The circular nature of the cycle, the flows of steam and water represented by lines, and the stocks of various liquids inside each of the parts. The lines showing flows between individual components. This diagram omits controls, but I�ll get to that in a sec. Anyways stocks are how much poo poo (water in a tank, steam in a boiler, etc) X things. Flows are how fast poo poo is moving X things per second. Flows can indicate what will happen in a system, but you need stocks to know when it will happen. Now one of the ways to control systems, is valves. Valves can do things like open and close. Or they can be throttled. Or a line can take pressure feed back from a pipe against a spring tension (or theses days a controller) and keep a flow at a particular rate (a analog solution). These are controls. Controls let one maintain the output one wants across variable inputs. One uses controls to keep a system from blowing up basically.

I�m going to play fast and loose with the history here but eventually WWII happens. During the war there is a lot of development in maths and we get tools like linear programming, that let's one maximize or minimize for desired values. There also is a problem after the war. How the hell does one get a rocket to fly where one wants it to? Control theory solves this problem. They take concepts, particularly the math for how that pressure control valve works and they apply it to rocketry. Controls theory is how they solve the problem of getting rockets to fly straight. See those simple valves, can be expressed as terms in differential equations. That same math can describe rockets, electronics, etc. All of these things (and some other concepts from other disciplines like ships stability) eventually come together and form a discipline called Operations research. The controls / stock and flow modeling part sometimes gets called the �Differential Equations Paradigm� and eventually we can digitize the industrial controllers with it. Eventually we turn this poo poo on everything. In business operations research gets used as �management science�. In the sixties Kennedy�s eggheads, the whiz kids, this is the way they�re thinking , the tools they are using. Rand Corp pioneers a lot of this type of modeling. Eventually it becomes one of the standard ways we look at business. Managers use linear programming to maximize production and profits. Businesses are modeled using ideas from the circular stock and flow . That steam cycle, the suite of concepts used to describe that, can also be used to describe a business or business cycles. In fact when executives talk about creating value designing systems is what they mean. And I don�t mean I�m inferring this. I mean I�ve asked, and they give this answer. They are creating circular systems that take in inputs and spit out money. Some of these models get pretty sophisticated look at things like SCOR as good example. And I would remind you this type of supply chain modeling is what makes apple, one of the most valuable companies in the world. It�s what Tim Cook is good at.

Something vitally important to understand. A lot of these models are constructed and then spread. They then get applied and even taught by people who couldn�t have made them and don�t really understand them.
Anyway systems thinking gets used to model economics and trade, the economist Wille posted here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3862896&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=11#post488017309
Is a great example amd what prompted this post. And important because it shows how compatible systems thinking is with dialectic though, because of the circular nature of the model. A number of times he talks about using stocks and flows to model trade and currency flows after the switch to fiat currency. He talks at length about using stock and flow models (and I think he is applying them correctly and reaching correct conclusions with them). Think tanks, consultancies (McKinsey is a good current example) they all use models built on these ideas. I�ve done some simple modeling in this area for grad school.

Anyway eventually somebody (the Japanese, but I don�t know enough about the specific people to tell which ones, Toyota is a big player) [yeah it was Toyota that coined the term- similar concepts were developed in parallel elsewhere] takes this thinking and comes up with the idea of minimizing inventory (a stock) by balancing logistical flows. One can really supercharge a business� return on investment by bringing it�s inventory holding costs down as low as possible. This idea is called Kanban. Now the principle here is basically just that pressure control valve I told you about earlier. Flows are controlled to reduce the need for inventory. This idea becomes widespread. Process management (which is more than Kanban and precedes it) becomes widespread and largely in conjunction with growing globalization. Something to have in mind. You and I are if we are employees are stocks to be minimized to maximize cash flow and return to shareholders.

I wrote all that to say this. Now we have business systems that are very sophisticated, they use models like SCOR, to minimize their inventories (and again it�s worth noting inventory can be considered include employees) and make more money . But systems with very low stocks tend to be less stable. In physical systems, like the steam cycle, poo poo blows the gently caress up when things go wrong. Now in business where we have managers applying models they didn�t construct and are merely applying (hmmm now that�s familiar) and those models tend reduce stocks, they�re reducing stability in the system.

When it gets too hard to steer around the rocks, sometimes we hit the rocks. And this is the underlying thing that�s been worrying me about this escalating trade war.

# ? Sep 29, 2018 22:09

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

I work in supply chain management for a fairly vertically integrated medium sized manufacturing firm and it's ridiculous how JIT relies on everything going just right (and your models having the right inputs), all the time, otherwise you're hosed, and it's no simple task to get unfucked. I think we plan to only carry two or three weeks worth of stock of parts we manufacture for our assemblies, which is a small fraction of the amount of time it actually takes to make the parts from start to finish. If you plan for mistakes and things going wrong you aren't maximizing shareholder value though, and that's Literally The Worst thing ever.

# ? Sep 30, 2018 04:08

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

Really nice. I'm just doing typos and one fact check here. There are a bunch of order and composition things but this is an impressive summary of the situation.

Thanks.

rscott posted:

If you plan for mistakes and things going wrong you aren't maximizing shareholder value though, and that's Literally The Worst thing ever.

I used to have a materials professor who would say "catastrophic failure is always a possibilty." Potential failure of the business certainly isn't maximizing shareholder value. Nor is knee capping future growth.

rscott posted:

I work in supply chain management for a fairly vertically integrated medium sized manufacturing firm and it's ridiculous how JIT relies on everything going just right (and your models having the right inputs), all the time, otherwise you're hosed, and it's no simple task to get unfucked.

And you don't even have to be the one to fuckup. Let's say one uses a freight consolidator. They decide to throw some haz in the same container. Ocean line has a surveyor inspect or a state decides to inspect. Turns out the consolidator doesn't know poo poo about haz. Container get rejected or detained. You be hosed. You also have the gently caress up (the consolidator) handling the unfucking. Welp your shits now rolled four vessel cuts.

There are people and companies who get it right basically everytime. It's just really hard to do, they are a very small minority. And even they occasionally have bad luck.

# ? Sep 30, 2018 06:16

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trade-nafta-framework/canada-u-s-reach-framework-deal-on-nafta-source-idUSKCN1MB184

Canada and the United States have come to an agreement on trade.

1. More dairy access to U.S. farmers in the Canadian market as previously posted.
2. There will be a cap on automobile exports from Canada to the United States.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 03:27

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Christ, allowing the US but no other countries better access to the Canadian dairy market is the very worst of all worlds, you hosed this up bad Trudeau!

# ? Oct 1, 2018 03:34

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

PT6A posted:

Christ, allowing the US but no other countries better access to the Canadian dairy market is the very worst of all worlds, you hosed this up bad Trudeau!

An interesting coincidence:

Bottom Liner posted:

This is a wild loving story about Devin Nunes and his crazy family

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a23471864/devin-nunes-family-farm-iowa-california/

It would have been much worse for Canada for NAFTA to end. Lotta cities and supply chains on the Lakes (on both sides) would have been hosed. One can watch the self unloader in Lakers on AIS to get a sense for how bad it could've been.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 04:22

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

PT6A posted:

Christ, allowing the US but no other countries better access to the Canadian dairy market is the very worst of all worlds, you hosed this up bad Trudeau!

Wait what? My understanding is that Europe already has access through CETA and the pacific countries through CPTPP. It is a little ridiculous that Italian Parmesan is easier to find and cheaper than Wisconsin Cheddar in a Canadian grocery store.

We were going to allow US access through TPP anyways probably. However, I do think Trudeau�s opponents will seize on this as a failure or a concession too far, even though in my strong opinion it isn�t.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 04:49

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

Yeah, but treaties like CETA don�t remove all barriers to trade. There are still a bunch of tariffs and limitations - they�re just all agreed upon between the two parties and most of them are lower than the base rates (and never higher).

# ? Oct 1, 2018 07:15

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Yeah, but treaties like CETA don�t remove all barriers to trade. There are still a bunch of tariffs and limitations - they�re just all agreed upon between the two parties and most of them are lower than the base rates (and never higher).

Sorry, I�m not sure I follow. How is this different from USMCA and NAFTA?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/usmca-nafta-what-we-know-1.4845103

quote:

The new deal gives American farmers greater access to Canada's dairy industry. It's unclear exactly how much will be given, but U.S. administration officials say it's above the 3.25 per cent set out in the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership

# ? Oct 1, 2018 13:43

Nocturtle: Mar 17, 2007

Interesting that chapter 11 investor-dispute process was largely eliminated for Canada. This was also one of the provisions largely dropped from the revised TPP after the US pulled out. Who would have guessed helping US companies sue nations for passing unfavorable policies isn't popular outside the US?

# ? Oct 1, 2018 13:46

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

SO Trump actually "won" a trade dispute?

# ? Oct 1, 2018 15:46

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

SO Trump actually "won" a trade dispute?

Yeah a former corporate raider like trump knows how tough a nut to crack candian dairy is.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 15:51

im depressed lol: Mar 12, 2013; cunts are still running the show.

BrandorKP posted:

Systems, Business, Trade, Kanban, and Political Economy

Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

I've been exposed to lean, just-in-time, various quality... they almost become philosophies at* some point eh? They have all kinds of buzz words (i.e. Six Sigma) associated with them, advocates, etc. but most non-management level employees (such as myself) don't really get/understand it fully except how it pertains to their job, and what to say when they're being audited.

Actually examining this stuff in a... I guess meta fashion, and having a NAME (systems thinking) alone has been incredibly enlightening. Again thanks, and I hope you appreciate that your effort isn't being wasted on a deaf audience.

edit: literally the instant i edit one typo, it's quoted. and now i'm not even sure if i meant 'as some point' now.

im depressed lol fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 1, 2018

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:38

pseudanonymous: Aug 30, 2008; When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

SO Trump actually "won" a trade dispute?

In the sense that he's getting to put a new name on an existing deal with incredibly minor changes that are essentially meaningless. He was humored.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:41

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

pseudanonymous posted:

In the sense that he's getting to put a new name on an existing deal with incredibly minor changes that are essentially meaningless. He was humored.

Judging by the fact that you could get italian parm cheaper than wisconsin parm id say its not a minor change. And 220,000 dairy farmers of canada would say much to the contrary.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 19:35

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

LeoMarr posted:

Judging by the fact that you could get italian parm cheaper than wisconsin parm id say its not a minor change. And 220,000 dairy farmers of canada would say much to the contrary.

So each dairy farm in Canada has 18.5 farmers?

(or one farmer for every 4.2 cows? :monocle:

)

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:00

Oakland Martini: Feb 14, 2008; Refugee from the great account hijacking of 2008

(Cross-posted from CanPol thread)

I am an economics professor in Canada who studies international trade, but I grew up in the US so I have extensive experience as a consumer in both countries.

I never thought I would say this, but in causing Canada to weaken supply management, Trump has actually accomplished something good! Supply management is an incredibly stupid system. I only hope that Trudeau can be persuaded to limit dairy farmers' compensation to the amounts they paid for their quotas (pro-rated relative to the overall quota increase, of course). Farmer who received their quotas decades ago for free should get nothing; they have benefited massively at the expense of consumers and deserve no compensation whatsoever.

Strengthened rules of origin, on the other hand, are a loss for consumers in all three countries, and the macroeconomic effects of this change will surely swamp the effects of reforming supply management (well, except for perhaps the political consequences).

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:01

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Lumpy posted:

So each dairy farm in Canada has 18.5 farmers?

(or one farmer for every 4.2 cows? )

Dairy farmers + families

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:13

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

LeoMarr posted:

Judging by the fact that you could get italian parm cheaper than wisconsin parm id say its not a minor change. And 220,000 dairy farmers of canada would say much to the contrary.

Sorry to nitpick but there�s no such thing as "Wisconsin Parm"

Oakland Martini posted:

Strengthened rules of origin, on the other hand, are a loss for consumers in all three countries, and the macroeconomic effects of this change will surely swamp the effects of reforming supply management (well, except for perhaps the political consequences).

I have no clue as to what NAFTA and this new agreement�s rules of origin are/were, are you saying that it will become harder to claim a Canadian/US/Mexican preferential origin under the new treaty? If so, lol

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:20

Oakland Martini: Feb 14, 2008; Refugee from the great account hijacking of 2008

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Sorry to nitpick but there�s no such thing as "Wisconsin Parm"

I have no clue as to what NAFTA and this new agreement�s rules of origin are/were, are you saying that it will become harder to claim a Canadian/US/Mexican preferential origin under the new treaty? If so, lol

Essentially, yes:

Financial Times on rules of origin posted:

These determine what percentage of inputs imported from elsewhere are permitted for goods made within the region to benefit from the agreement. The new accord makes rules of origin more demanding for car manufacturers, since it will gradually raise the required percentage of regional auto production from 62.5 per cent to 75 per cent.

https://www.ft.com/content/92e9ce0a-c55f-11e8-bc21-54264d1c4647

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:24

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 19:06

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

im depressed lol posted:

they almost become philosophies as some point eh?

Closer to systematic theologies. If we get a recession and I have actual time again. I'm probably going to try to write book analyzing them in that sense.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 20:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Good and Easy to Win: The Trade War Thread

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