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EVIL Gibson posted:That right there is the big difference. I don't want to lose files. End sentence. You put it on a different lower level of risk but to people like me that means a personal failure. Once you exceed the durability promises of the given RAID level you're at you are losing data. In filesystem level RAID4 (what they are describing, more or less) you lose the contents of a disk at random if you lose 2 disks. In block-level RAID5 you lose 2/5ths of your blocks at random. Choose.
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Oct 2, 2018 18:47
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I don't bother backing up my media array at all, I'm relying entirely on parity because it doesn't matter, none of the data is critical and replacement is easy. It is too expensive to bother just to preserve crap like House DVDs I ripped 5 years ago. I have a directory content listing that gets saved to Google Drive once a month instead. If somehow I lose my data disks and parity disks then oh well, I will replace files as necessary. I only backup the configs and my VMs. Burn me at the stake!
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Oct 2, 2018 19:47
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If your time collecting those files is worth nothing, then by all means don't back it up.
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Oct 2, 2018 20:01
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Munkeymon posted:I just used Solaris 10 and then Open Indiana because I started my first build in 07, I'm lazy and just wanted to copy settings files to the other one and have them (mostly) just work. Solaris' role based permission system was nice. NetBSD also recently changed their ZFS and dtrace upstreams from OpenIndiana to FreeBSD, so you have some choice in the matter of your servers OS. Having said that, the OpenZFS repository of record will likely stay on Illumos for the forseeable future because of the long EOLs on commercial products built on Illumos, if for no other reason than to ensure portability. people posted:
ZFS, because of the design where the parent block keeps the checksum of its childrens distributed parity, is maybe a bit unique in that zdb can be used to recover some data from pools which are in a faulted state, which isn't true of a lot of other hardware RAID types as well as quite a few software RAID types.
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Oct 2, 2018 20:05
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about RAID levels involving dedicated parity vs distributed parity
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D. Ebdrup posted:RAID is not backup, no matter how big the level numbers are. I did mention that in my post; I personally have two backups, including one that's off site (and offline), so 3 copies in all. I thought I mentioned about the checksumming features of zfs too, so I'm definitely not making GBS threads on it, I was merely trying to clear up some misunderstanding HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 2, 2018 |
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Oct 2, 2018 20:19
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HalloKitty posted:I did mention that in my post; I personally have two backups, including one that's off site (and offline), so 3 copies in all. I do backup so please don't try to accuse me of not. I've seen all types in corporate and other places and know exactly what a suck backup is. I believe you can say with me that backups slow and suck and did I mention are slow but so very required. I do not WANT to restore from backup (made a bit easier through zfs snapshot though) so if I can make the pool degrade slower to not have to go through that process, the better. I was reacting because I thought Unraid did not support dual parity and just support single. It does support dual so it's not as bad as you were putting it.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:12
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EVIL Gibson posted:I was reacting because I thought Unraid did not support dual parity and just support single. It does support dual so it's not as bad as you were putting it. I think you still aren't understanding what he was saying. If you have dual parity, on a raid 6 array once your 3rd drive fails you lose all your data, whereas with unraid you only lose a partial set of data. I dunno how useful it really since once you lose a random portion of your files it would be easier to restore everything from backups than try to figure out which individual files are gone, but if you really are up poo poo creek I guess a partial dataset is better than nothing.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:50
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D. Ebdrup posted:Considering Delphix, Nexenta,
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Oct 3, 2018 01:25
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Droo posted:I dunno how useful it really since once you lose a random portion of your files it would be easier to restore everything from backups than try to figure out which individual files are gone, but if you really are up poo poo creek I guess a partial dataset is better than nothing. UnRaid actually has a way to mitigate this to an extent, on a per share basis https://imgur.com/mIihtpE For example if your share "TV" is organized: ShowName\Season\Episodes You could choose to split it so that a single series or season for a series is self-contained on a single drive - whatever makes sense for your setup. Or you could use the disk include/exclude options if you want something a bit more rigid. ...Not that any of this is an excuse to not have sufficient backups of anything that's important, of course.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:11
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I've got the DS1817+ running now, with 8x 8TB WD Elements shucked drives, which are WD80EMAZ drives. No 3.3v problems with the Synology. Built a RAID6 array, and am currently pushing 10TB of data across regular GigE at 112MB/s. Not shabby at all. Next up is installing the ConnectX2 cards and beating on this thing via 10GBE. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Oct 3, 2018 04:19
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Thanks, Gunslinger and Miniboss. That makes sense but I already understand FreeNAS and also I've got enough hardware to throw it into overkill mode so I'm good with it. Xeon E5-2620v3, 64GB RAM, NVMe 256GB L2ARC, 256GB SSD SLOG, 1xZ1 @4x4TB ea shucked, 1x Z1 @ 2TB overall (forget the capacities) with a Dell MD1000 with 14x 1TB 6Gb SAS drives as a rsync backfilled to 10GbE
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Oct 3, 2018 05:17
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Combat Pretzel posted:OpenSolaris finally dead then? Oh my. OpenIndiana got an update as recently as August, so it's not dead dead, but I can't imagine there are too many other sad sack partians
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Oct 3, 2018 05:19
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Combat Pretzel posted:OpenSolaris finally dead then? Oh my. It's only commercial software that can actually die.
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Oct 3, 2018 10:50
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EVIL Gibson posted:I do backup so please don't try to accuse me of not. I'm not accusing anyone of anything , I apologise if it came off that way; I was merely trying to explain something, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Oct 3, 2018 11:52
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Combat Pretzel posted:OpenSolaris finally dead then? Oh my. Which is a shame, I really liked using Solaris. Too bad there was no infiniband subnet manager for it.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:01
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Munkeymon posted:OpenIndiana got an update as recently as August, so it's not dead dead, but I can't imagine there are too many other sad sack partians I do, it works, Kernel mode iSCSI host is awesome, and frankly the host isn't connected to anything but the storage vlan except for update time, so I'll keep this thing going until the wheels fall off.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:19
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Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a 2011 NSFW build, really looking forward to playing around with a xeon based system. Might finally get to fill out this huge rocketfish case a bit more. It's had nothing but tiny motherboards in it to this point.
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Oct 3, 2018 18:43
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Enos Cabell posted:Went ahead and pulled the trigger on a 2011 NSFW build, really looking forward to playing around with a xeon based system. Might finally get to fill out this huge rocketfish case a bit more. It's had nothing but tiny motherboards in it to this point. Congrats! Beefy servers are fun!
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Oct 3, 2018 19:20
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Droo posted:I think you still aren't understanding what he was saying. If you have dual parity, on a raid 6 array once your 3rd drive fails you lose all your data, whereas with unraid you only lose a partial set of data. With it being independent disks you should also know what content is on there so you just need to pull the specific data, it should be much faster to do that than to pull all of it. But that will vary depending on how you organize your backups and if you keep track of it. I like to backup disk by disk so I would easily be able to just restore whichever disk failed. I imagine it is the same with unRaid but another nice thing with SnapRaid not striping data is you can use standard disk recovery tools as well on the failed disks. In that case it is probably faster to restore from backup than engage in disk recovery, but it is nice to have options. Raldikuk fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Oct 4, 2018 |
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Oct 4, 2018 00:31
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I still run openindiana. Which is causing me issues as I need to replace my hardware but OI isn't UEFI compatible.
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Oct 4, 2018 04:27
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adorai posted:I still run openindiana. Which is causing me issues as I need to replace my hardware but OI isn't UEFI compatible. My ThinkPad T420 runs in UEFI-mode with a 200MB FAT-12 partition that contains the ZFS- and GELI-capable loader as a .efi file, it works wonderfully.
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Oct 4, 2018 10:07
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Newegg has 2 packs of 8tb HGST Desktar NAS drives (7200 rpm) for $413, if anyone doesn't like schucking. https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3866624
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Oct 5, 2018 20:53
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Lol. Single bay NAS. You'd think it would be produced by some lesser known brand. But no, it's Synology! https://hexus.net/tech/news/storage/122687-synology-launches-diskstation-ds119j-single-bay-nas/
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Oct 5, 2018 22:18
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apropos man posted:Lol. Single bay NAS. You'd think it would be produced by some lesser known brand. But no, it's Synology! It isn’t the greatest of all products but I’d argue that a single bay NAS backing up to an attached USB drive is a lot more useful to the average computer user than a 2 bay NAS with RAID1 and no backups. 
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Oct 5, 2018 22:41
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It's priced presumably to be bundled with a drive and sold as an alternative to things like the WD MyCloud.
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Oct 5, 2018 22:42
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 They've always had a single bay device in their line up, what's the big deal with it getting a refresh?
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Oct 5, 2018 22:58
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Flipperwaldt posted:
yeah idgi either, presumed it was a bunch of Big Hard Drive Boys with a billion drives just laughing at the concept of a single drive "Ptah! Absolutely useless for my extremely niche storage needs!"
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Oct 5, 2018 23:20
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Flipperwaldt posted:
Oh, really? I was just browsing that site and it's the first time I've seen one. I thought it was a bit of an oxymoron. I only run a mirror pair myself, so I'm not exactly tooled up with RAID. I thought it was a new thing that'd came out to appeal to the naive, but it appears that the naivete lies with me.
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Oct 5, 2018 23:33
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apropos man posted:Lol. Single bay NAS. You'd think it would be produced by some lesser known brand. But no, it's Synology! For some small branch offices we used them for shared storage and desktop backup and nightly snapshot backed up the nas to head office. Worked really well.
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Oct 6, 2018 05:08
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What are your opinions on enterprise HDDs, thread? For a little background, I have an older gaming desktop that gets limited use (a couple days a week) and the ST3000DM001 that was in it finally died (actuator/head failure from what I was able to diagnose) after about 5.5 years and ~5.5k hours. I replaced it with an HGST He8 6 TB that I bought as a used/refurb because the price was right (~$105 which was and still is good for that capacity) and I was interested in finally getting a He-filled drive (for no good reason.) I restored from my backup of the original drive and a second ST3000DM001 (both just held games) to simplify my setup; now I just have the one 6 TB internal drive for games and I backed that up to a new 6 TB USB HDD. (Like I said, these are just holding game installs and are replaceable/re-downloadable, but like someone posted above, the time to re-download and reinstall everything is of value. It took several days to transfer everything over, get all the games updated, defrag, then backup everything to the new external drive.) That being said, I like the He8. It's fast (IIRC sequential R/W was >200 MB/s) and the noise/heat don't bother me (it's pretty clicky but I wear a headset, and I think it's supposed to be cooler than an air-filled drive but that's irrelevant in my single-drive setup.) Other than that, it's just another HDD and anything would work for my purpose here, but I do also like that it's a higher-reliability enterprise-class drive, and being a used/refurb'd drive that was taken out of service while still functional, it's at the bottom of that bathtub curve (SMART status is good and it came with ~18k power-on hours but, no joke, <20 power-on cycles.) I just need a drive to work reliably, and cost-effectively (because gaming isn't a necessity and I don't have a ton of time for it anyway,) and the cheapest drives are generally either used/refurb'd or external ones. With all that in mind, I've been keeping an eye out for similar deals on 6/8 TB drives. With discounts I can periodically find new 8 TB USB drives in the $120 range (these are occasionally WD with Red or white label drives inside, but more commonly Seagate SMR drives which are nevertheless useful for backups/archives,) and some of the aforementioned server-pulled enterprise drives like the aforementioned HGST He-series or also WD Re/Gold, around $100-110 for 6 TB with the right deals. Getting back to the initial question, do you guys have any opinions about these drives in particular, or about similar alternatives? While the situation with the gaming desktop is resolved at the moment, it'd be nice to have a spare for the active drive but also I'm going to populate a 4-bay NAS box mainly for use as a Plex server, where it will see fairly low-to-medium use. Something like cheap mainstream consumer HDDs (e.g. WD green, blue) would be less appropriate for these purposes, and really only the used enterprise drives I've been looking at offer the best combination of capacity/performance/reliability/price.
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Oct 6, 2018 05:40
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WD Elements 8TB drives are cheap and have WD80EMAZ drives in them. I just shucked 8 of them, it takes me about 2 minutes now. That's what I'd do.
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Oct 6, 2018 12:51
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Shucked 3 of the WD MyBooks I ordered from Amazon last night, they were made in Thailand and had the WD80EZAZ 256mb cache white label drives. From what I understand, these are the ones I need to power with regular molex to sata adapter right?
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Oct 6, 2018 14:26
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I would just use the electrical tape 3.3v mod.
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Oct 6, 2018 14:45
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Enos Cabell posted:Shucked 3 of the WD MyBooks I ordered from Amazon last night, they were made in Thailand and had the WD80EZAZ 256mb cache white label drives. From what I understand, these are the ones I need to power with regular molex to sata adapter right? Tape on Pin3 works too, and doesn't introduce another adapter to fail (and buy). I used Kapton because I had it around, but even Scotch tape will do. I wouldn't use Electrical tape, it's likely to leave adhesive residue and slide around more than the clear stuff.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:31
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sharkytm posted:Tape on Pin3 works too, and doesn't introduce another adapter to fail (and buy). I used Kapton because I had it around, but even Scotch tape will do. I wouldn't use Electrical tape, it's likely to leave adhesive residue and slide around more than the clear stuff. Yeah, I'll give that a shot instead. It looks like you can tape off the first 3 pins, so that should make it even easier. Will see if I can find some Kapton locally, I think I'd trust that more than scotch.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:37
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apropos man posted:Oh, really? I was just browsing that site and it's the first time I've seen one. I thought it was a bit of an oxymoron. I only run a mirror pair myself, so I'm not exactly tooled up with RAID. I thought it was a new thing that'd came out to appeal to the naive, but it appears that the naivete lies with me. Add in using it as a single source for cloud backups that can run unsupervised overnight. For a couple of hundred bucks total, non-recurring (ignoring the cost of the cloud backups themselves). That's not terrible.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:38
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Atomizer posted:What are your opinions on enterprise HDDs, thread? You're way over thinking your optimization of a 2 day chore, most of which is unsupervised, twice a decade. Putting your OS on a ssd and your steam downloads on a regular hdd will go much further. Further, enterprise drives fail after 5 years too. Stick with regular new disks.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:56
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I'm looking to add a cheap NAS to a network, mostly for local backup + cloud backup. No current plan to put anything from it on a TV, or at least going through a PC first is probably fine. Right now I'm looking at the Synology DS218j I have 2TB WD Blue sitting around already and can get another for $60 or alternately buy a 2TB Red (software RAID, same speed, should be fine?). The space required isn't much so I'm trying not to spend too much on drives. One question I can't find a good answer to is if you can have multiple users access the NAS remotely or just one login that sees the whole system?
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Oct 6, 2018 19:05
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Part of the issue with shucking is that you're not 100% certain what drive is inside (which is even more of an issue when ordering online because even though you may get a good price with a deal, you can't even look at the info on the box to take a guess what's inside before opening it,) and those 8 TB Easystores can have like 3-4 different drives last time I checked. Then you may run into that obnoxious 3.3v issue on top of that. Plus, I'm perfectly fine with using external drives as-is, so that's why I'm curious about the most reliable and cost-effective internal drives.H110Hawk posted:You're way over thinking your optimization of a 2 day chore, most of which is unsupervised, twice a decade. Putting your OS on a ssd and your steam downloads on a regular hdd will go much further. I'm not asking about "optimizing a chore," I asked about some specific HDDs. There are certainly differences in WD Green, Blue, Red, Purple, etc., and some are NOT appropriate for certain scenarios (e.g. many drives packed into a high-vibration setting.) I'm just wondering about the enterprise drives as I have the least experience with them. If you have no knowledge then feel free to ignore the question!
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Oct 6, 2018 20:05
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CampingCarl posted:I'm looking to add a cheap NAS to a network, mostly for local backup + cloud backup. No current plan to put anything from it on a TV, or at least going through a PC first is probably fine. I have a DS218+, which is essentially the same thing but with a faster CPU (x86 rather than ARM), more RAM and support for btrfs, and I'm quite happy with it. Synology's OS has pretty decent multi-user support as far as I can tell - I don't use that functionality myself, but you can set per-user permissions on most stuff in it, from file/folder access (obviously) to things like which apps are available and so on. You can do some pretty advanced stuff with it if you're so inclined - it comes with a pretty good software ecosystem. It's just a regular Linux system with a user-friendly web interface on top, so if you want to you can run servers or an IRC client or whatever you like on it. I pretty much just use it to get my spinny drives out of my computer and into a closet though, so I don't really run any software other than a backup service on it. It's kind of a waste really, I should have gotten the 218j instead and saved the cash. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 6, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2018 20:07
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