|
dr who is always at its best when it's aggressively anticapitalist
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:33 |
|
|
Plavski posted:I just rewatched series 10 and drat it's still exemplary. Even the poor Extremis bits can be saved by Mackie, Capaldi and Lucas. Fantastic Who. Even Bradley Walsh can't beat Matt Lucas in terms of "holy crap he's actually good at this!??"
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:25
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:dr who is always at its best when it's aggressively anticapitalist I wish the people in charge of star trek understood why the show works on a fundamental level like the Who revival does. Modern Who had every opportunity to descend into the trend of grimdark nihilism that engulfs modern sci-fi, and even when it's bad it nearly never does that. I guess the War Doctor stuff flirted with it, but it never came off as uncharacteristically dour. More than ever, we need a hopeful, moral doctor. I don't think we'll ever see Luxury Space Communism in star trek again, but I have to hand it to Doctor Who for sticking to its roots like glue.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
Matt Lucas was the biggest whiplash from “oh god this is going to be awful” to “one of the best parts of an already great season”
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I guess the War Doctor stuff flirted with it, but it never came off as uncharacteristically dour. I think it’s funny that the Doctor hides this bit of themself, as ‘the darkest I’ve ever been, and didn’t deserve to call myself the Doctor, etc’. Yet every time we’re shown the War Doctor in action, he’s literally just the Doctor being the Doctor, all twinkle in the eye and pulling a rabbit out of the hat at the last second. He’s just in an incredibly bad situation, an endless war across nearly all of space and time, with his own side proving themselves just as capable of being monsters as those they’re meant to fighting. And that’s going to make anyone serious and brooding, even the Doctor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
What are we supposed to assume happened after the end of "Oxygen"? They go and put in a complaint to the head office and then... presumably the owner opens a trapdoor under them like Mr Burns or signals to the guards to take them away then gets back to their paperwork?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:45
|
|
|
HD DAD posted:Matt Lucas was the biggest whiplash from “oh god this is going to be awful” to “one of the best parts of an already great season” He's tied with Catherine Tate in that league for me tbh.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:46
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:I think it’s funny that the Doctor hides this bit of themself, as ‘the darkest I’ve ever been, and didn’t deserve to call myself the Doctor, etc’. Yet every time we’re shown the War Doctor in action, he’s literally just the Doctor being the Doctor, all twinkle in the eye and pulling a rabbit out of the hat at the last second. He’s just in an incredibly bad situation, an endless war across nearly all of space and time, with his own side proving themselves just as capable of being monsters as those they’re meant to fighting. And that’s going to make anyone serious and brooding, even the Doctor. The casting definitely didn't hurt either. fake edit: pretend I made that pun on purpose
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
SiKboy posted:He's tied with Catherine Tate in that league for me tbh. Donna rules.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:50
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:What are we supposed to assume happened after the end of "Oxygen"? They go and put in a complaint to the head office and then... presumably the owner opens a trapdoor under them like Mr Burns or signals to the guards to take them away then gets back to their paperwork? the Doctor literally explains what happened afterwards from his historical knowledge
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 20:58
|
|
|
Welcome to Doctor Who, where fans will laugh and complain loudly when the show over explains things to them while also missing the things that get explained.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:01
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:I think it’s funny that the Doctor hides this bit of themself, as ‘the darkest I’ve ever been, and didn’t deserve to call myself the Doctor, etc’. Yet every time we’re shown the War Doctor in action, he’s literally just the Doctor being the Doctor, all twinkle in the eye and pulling a rabbit out of the hat at the last second. He’s just in an incredibly bad situation, an endless war across nearly all of space and time, with his own side proving themselves just as capable of being monsters as those they’re meant to fighting. And that’s going to make anyone serious and brooding, even the Doctor. The show really copped out with that, the idea of a war criminal doctor was one of RTD's few good ideas and they backpedaled away from it so hard
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:The show really copped out with that, the idea of a war criminal doctor was one of RTD's few good ideas and they backpedaled away from it so hard Moffat's idea. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:07
|
|
|
Evil Doctor is still a great concept that I'd love to see more of on screen. Like, just handwave it that since the Doctor got a whole new life cycle it spit out the Valeyard somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:11
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:Moffat's idea. The War Doctor was Moffat's idea, the idea that the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey to avert/end the Time War was
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:14
|
|
|
Dabir posted:the Doctor literally explains what happened afterwards from his historical knowledge Fair enough. I suppose it doesn't really matter; the future can be whatever they need it to be for the story.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I wish the people in charge of star trek understood why the show works on a fundamental level like the Who revival does. Modern Who had every opportunity to descend into the trend of grimdark nihilism that engulfs modern sci-fi, and even when it's bad it nearly never does that. I guess the War Doctor stuff flirted with it, but it never came off as uncharacteristically dour. They actually are making that Star Trek ...its called The Orville Rhyno posted:Donna rules. I remember when Donna's run was actually airing and everyone seemed to hate* her except me. *Not necessarily here, but just in general
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
I started to love her about halfway through the season but I didn't realize how great she was until she was gone.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
I liked her from the interminable suitcase gag where she prepped the hell out of herself. "*Brandishing each suitcase* Hot weather, cold weather, No weather!" also her misunderstanding of the Doctor's slang. "I just want... a mate." "You're not mating with me sunshine!" was a gag I found funny too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:28
|
|
|
The excruciatingly long game of charades was just my sort of stupid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:The excruciatingly long game of charades was just my sort of stupid. One of my favorite Who scenes ever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:39
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I wish the people in charge of star trek understood why the show works on a fundamental level like the Who revival does. Modern Who had every opportunity to descend into the trend of grimdark nihilism that engulfs modern sci-fi, and even when it's bad it nearly never does that. I guess the War Doctor stuff flirted with it, but it never came off as uncharacteristically dour. The Star Trek comparison brings to mind something that occurred to me yesterday. I suspect this season will be a lot like the Orville (if we were to pretend that it were an actual Star Trek property) - comfortable, pleasant, well-put-together episodes that tread familiar ground and don't push boundaries. Not that it's a bad thing in itself (most Big Finish could be described exactly that way), but I don't get the impression that this team will try something ambitious like "Heaven Sent" or even "Blink." I would absolutely love to be proven wrong, and the idea of a "holding pattern" period to distance the series from the excesses of the Moffat era isn't a bad one, but I don't foresee a lot of memorable episodes that tread new ground. "Ghost Monument" showed one of Chibnall's major weaknesses that we've seen in previous episodes - he's bad at bringing the disparate story elements into a cohesive whole in the final act. Remember the people last week saying that they completely blank on the ending of "Power of Three?" This wasn't as egregious, but it was similarly dissatisfying. With all the time spent on the Doctor trying to solve the mystery of the planet, it never tied back into the race plot in any way way. I expected Art Malik to be using the race as cover to acquire the weapons for himself or something like that, since he was played as ab obvious villain. But no, he's just a guy who likes races and is a little bit of a jerk? Allowing the tie didn't fit at all with how the character had been established, nor did acquiescing to a threat from someone with zero power to carry it out. And all the buildup with the scientists was just to establish that the assholes last week were different-scale assholes? That almost felt like Moffat's tendency to add arc poo poo to other people's scripts, except this was all Chibnall. I also started groaning at the amount of narrative agency given to the TARDIS itself. Hopefully this was a one-episode thing, but I really don't want the first female Doctor to play second-fiddle to her own ship. Maybe I'm over-reacting in anticipation of the "won't be able to drive the TARDIS" crowd, but the way it played out at the end felt... unfortunate. And I'm surprised there was so much gun talk without anyone posting the definitive Doctor Who Gun Speech. This is probably the clearest it's been spelled out, but it's something that's been consistent. It's not that the Doctor is strictly anti-violence (although there is a fairly consistent set of principles in which it's considered acceptable), but they are anti-weapon. A weapon, as Seven says, has a single purpose. It takes the place of considered action, it's a substitute for thinking things through. Even the magic wand (at its worst) Sonic requires an awareness of the situation that a gun does not. It's what underpins the "A sonic what?" scene in "Empty Child." Of course, Moffat especially had a problem of having "the Doctor doesn't use weapons, but I do"  characters (especially River) undercutting the whole thing, but thankfully that wasn't an issue here. The problem was that Ryan let the gun present itself as a default solution to the problem, that the confidence in the weapon could easily have gotten him killed. We can argue about whether it's hypocritical, but I for one absolutely love that we get that attitude on screen somewhere. As a heathen American, I've seen the devastation that the Cult of the Gun can wreak on a psyche, how easily it can take the place of thinking, and worse, of empathy.(EFB on the Orville, but make too big a post and you end up as toast.) After The War fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Oct 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:The excruciatingly long game of charades was just my sort of stupid. What amused the hell out of me was that I understood what they were saying and I have no ability whatsoever to read lips They're dorks and I love them
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:01
|
|
|
docbeard posted:The War Doctor was Moffat's idea, the idea that the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey to avert/end the Time War was No, that was a completely different Time War. Don't be silly.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:01
|
|
|
You can definitely include me in the surprised about Catherine Tate camp. She was a real delight after three series where the companion was mooning over the doctor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:58
|
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:The show really copped out with that, the idea of a war criminal doctor was one of RTD's few good ideas and they backpedaled away from it so hard Deep Space Nine is my favorite Star Trek and it wrestles with those questions too, but Pale Moonlight aside, it also answers the "what if Star Trek couldn't solve problems the Star Trek way" with "gently caress you, we're still solving poo poo the Star Trek way."
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 22:58
|
|
|
Clouseau posted:You can definitely include me in the surprised about Catherine Tate camp. She was a real delight after three series where the companion was mooning over the doctor. I hated The Runaway Bride and I was just shocked to find that she was returning as the full-time companion, and then I loved her. I'm imagining a Wilf-Donna-Nardole episode right now. There would be some good chemistry.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:06
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Donna rules. She did, and words can barely express exactly how loving SHOCKED I was by that fact. If you gave me a straight choice between watching an episode of The Catherine Tate Show (or Little Britain) or spending half an hour hammering nails through my dick I'd have to think about it. And probably ask what size nails. And yet, Donna (and Nardole) were both excellent companions.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:No, that was a completely different Time War. Don't be silly. When the show came back and the Doctor started mentioning the Time War, and hinting how he'd destroyed his own people, the Wilderness Years fans went nuts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
I couldn't have imagined anything worse than a Catherine Tate doctor who. Then when I finally brought myself to watch those episodes I was distraught because there were no more of them. She was so good. Her and Pearl Mackie, companions gone before their time. But at least we got all those Clara seasons. Phew.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
I had no idea who Catherine Tate was going in and I loved her companions that don't buy the Doctor's bullshit are a delight
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:48
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:When the show came back and the Doctor started mentioning the Time War, and hinting how he'd destroyed his own people, the Wilderness Years fans went nuts. I won't be happy until I get a a TV Doctor with season-long amnesia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2018 23:54
|
|
|
After The War posted:The Star Trek comparison brings to mind something that occurred to me yesterday. I suspect this season will be a lot like the Orville (if we were to pretend that it were an actual Star Trek property) - comfortable, pleasant, well-put-together episodes that tread familiar ground and don't push boundaries. Not that it's a bad thing in itself (most Big Finish could be described exactly that way), but I don't get the impression that this team will try something ambitious like "Heaven Sent" or even "Blink." I would absolutely love to be proven wrong, and the idea of a "holding pattern" period to distance the series from the excesses of the Moffat era isn't a bad one, but I don't foresee a lot of memorable episodes that tread new ground. I hold pretty much the same opinion, and I'm completely delighted about it. I want a simple, throwback, straightforward season of Doctor loving Who. I want companions that are companions with stories, not magic schoolteachers that are also splintered throughout the doctor's timeline because of the time winds of trenzalore or some horseshit. I want rubber monsters and cliffhangers, and most of all I just want one show on television that does nothing other than celebrate being peaceful and smart instead of greedy and violent. In bright colors. Next season we can talk about getting fancy with it, but Moffat spent the last two years getting way, way ahead of himself and tripping over his dick trying to be clever. We need a break.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
I’d settle for a blanket ban on rhyming prophecies whispered by children.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 00:33
|
|
|
After The War posted:"Ghost Monument" showed one of Chibnall's major weaknesses that we've seen in previous episodes - he's bad at bringing the disparate story elements into a cohesive whole in the final act. Remember the people last week saying that they completely blank on the ending of "Power of Three?" This wasn't as egregious, but it was similarly dissatisfying. With all the time spent on the Doctor trying to solve the mystery of the planet, it never tied back into the race plot in any way way. I expected Art Malik to be using the race as cover to acquire the weapons for himself or something like that, since he was played as ab obvious villain. But no, he's just a guy who likes races and is a little bit of a jerk? Allowing the tie didn't fit at all with how the character had been established, nor did acquiescing to a threat from someone with zero power to carry it out. And all the buildup with the scientists was just to establish that the assholes last week were different-scale assholes? That almost felt like Moffat's tendency to add arc poo poo to other people's scripts, except this was all Chibnall. It is just remotely possible that we shouldn't believe everything that Mr. "my mother didn't catch me" had to say. From the point when the Doctor talked him into letting her help keep his ship from crashing, he'd been showing fractures in his "loner" facade. It's also true that he was massively outnumbered, and I don't think he really understood the Doctor, so he could have calculated that the non-racers would stop him and throw the race to the other character unless he agreed to split the pot. They also played up the relationship between those two, not in the romantic sense, but in the sense that I thought they couldn't stand each other in a "but we've been through so much of the same poo poo" kind of way, not a genuinely loathing "I want you dead" kind of way. When he threatens to kill her later, he never seems genuinely threatening even before he's reminded that's against the rules.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 00:38
|
|
|
What sticks out to me about the show in general, is it is often almost relentlessly hilariously dark. Major characters getting turned into cybermen or dying or other weird dark stuff happening to them, and then it not being undone etc. I think key characters becoming cybermen is one that ended up being overused. I don't know if spoilers are needed for older seasons, just in case. I don't mind the show being less dark, if that's the case, but I do like a bit of unexpected consequences and weird dark stuff from time to time, makes the show feel less safe and more unpredictable if done well. Haven't checked this season out yet, have the episodes ready to go, watch it with a friend. Looking forward to it though. I do like the Doctor to have a bit of edge a little bit, you know, like when Monkey D Luffy gets pissed off. You're like oh my, this is serious now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
Heavy Metal posted:What sticks out to me about the show in general, is it is often almost relentlessly hilariously dark. Major characters getting turned into cybermen or dying or other weird dark stuff happening to them, and then it not being undone etc. I think key characters becoming cybermen is one that ended up being overused. I don't know if spoilers are needed for older seasons, just in case. I think that specific thing happened, what, twice in basically ten years? Though yeah, I miss companions just wandering off from the TARDIS into the next thing in their life rather than having some TRAGIC and HORRIBLE separation from the Doctor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 01:44
|
|
|
docbeard posted:I think that specific thing happened, what, twice in basically ten years? Though yeah, I miss companions just wandering off from the TARDIS into the next thing in their life rather than having some TRAGIC and HORRIBLE separation from the Doctor. Yep it was twice, but still, to me it did feel overused. Something very specific and unusual and tragic happening and then the same beats again a few seasons later or whatever, to me it felt like okay you've used up this idea. There are infinite other weird tragic things they could do ha. But yeah tragic stuff happening to major characters seemed to happen a lot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
Dr. Fishopolis posted:I hold pretty much the same opinion, and I'm completely delighted about it. I want a simple, throwback, straightforward season of Doctor loving Who. I want companions that are companions with stories, not magic schoolteachers that are also splintered throughout the doctor's timeline because of the time winds of trenzalore or some horseshit. I want rubber monsters and cliffhangers, and most of all I just want one show on television that does nothing other than celebrate being peaceful and smart instead of greedy and violent. In bright colors. This sums up my feelings exactly, and is part of the reason why I gave up on the show under Moffat, and why I've enjoyed Jodie's first two stories so far.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:33 |
|
|
docbeard posted:I think that specific thing happened, what, twice in basically ten years? Though yeah, I miss companions just wandering off from the TARDIS into the next thing in their life rather than having some TRAGIC and HORRIBLE separation from the Doctor. Remember when Martha decided, gently caress, this is way too crazy and this relationship is unhealthy and left for her own adventures and that's the only time in 14 years someone has done that
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2018 02:40
|
|