The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

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Throatwarbler: Nov 17, 2008; by vyelkin

I went to a Tesla showroom a few month ago to confirm that on a model 3, if you open the electric charge port cover it blocks the hatch, which I heard will still open and just snap the charge port cover off.

Well that's my story, thanks for reading.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 07:47

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:25

Kia Soul Enthusias: May 9, 2004; zoom-zoom; Toilet Rascal

Throatwarbler posted:

I went to a Tesla showroom a few month ago to confirm that on a model 3, if you open the electric charge port cover it blocks the hatch, which I heard will still open and just snap the charge port cover off.

Well that's my story, thanks for reading.

Did you confirm it?

# ? Oct 21, 2018 07:57

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Can confirm that the trunk lid and charge port do not touch each other. I don�t know who started that one, but it�s a nonissue.

Source: I just opened and closed both of mine.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 15:26

Duck and Cover: Apr 6, 2007

Duck and Cover posted:

Duck and Covers totally fair review of the bolt and the Model 3. The Bolt is mine, The Model 3 got like 20 minutes drive not on a highway and through road work sooooo not really the best but I have been a passenger in multiple Tesla 3s.

Bolt has car play. Bolt has a superior color choice and better looking wheels. Cheaper. Isn't a sedan, seriously why do people drive sedans? Doesn't have active cruise control which is strange. It's plenty fast (acceleration wise), the seats kind of suck. The interior is functional, not terrible. Like yeah the Tesla has a nicer interior, but on the flip side I've got buttons and knobs. Onstar is a stupid scam. Chevrolet dealer isn't a long drive. The screens are okay. The cameras vary from okay to a step or two above unacceptable. Mine has the aerial view thingy which is rad. The user interface is acceptable both in function and form. Oh yeah my paint has bubbling on the a pillar interior, but the outside seems good but that may be because I'm not looking careful.

Tesla fast. Like more speed/acceleration then you need. It's not a small vehicle, but in all fairness I am a big baby who likes small cars. (Previously drove a Mini Cooper before that a Subaru Impreza Outback Sport). The quality control on these things is uhhhh bad which I'm sure you all knew. Three out of three cars had paint issues. Turn signal issue with one. There's visible distortion in the windshield of one them. (I notice it in the backseat and so doesn't really matter). Probably more issues that I didn't remember wasn't told about. The minimalist aesthetic is nice but the lack of climate control buttons isn't. The cameras seem pretty nice (I haven't paid much attention to it but I remember it being nicer then the ones in my car). That big screen is sweet. The user interface is nice.

Tesla is a Mac while the Bolt is Windows. There you go it's a computer analogy.

Oh did I say the interface is nice? Apparently the tap targets are too small. That's okay though it's not like the touch screen is used for practically everything.

# ? Oct 21, 2018 23:30

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

I've always been a bit of an induction nay-sayer, I've just been owned by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

https://www.ornl.gov/news/ornl-demonstrates-120-kilowatt-wireless-charging-vehicles

quote:

OAK RIDGE, Tenn., Oct. 19, 2018�Researchers at the Department of Energy�s Oak Ridge National Laboratory have demonstrated a 120-kilowatt wireless charging system for vehicles�providing six times the power of previous ORNL technology and a big step toward charging times that rival the speed and convenience of a gas station fill-up.

The wireless system transfers 120 kilowatts of power with 97 percent efficiency, which is comparable to conventional, wired high-power fast chargers. In the laboratory demonstration, power was transferred across a six-inch air gap between two magnetic coils and charged a battery pack.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:21

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

Wow that's neat. Does it heat the battery pack?

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:23

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

RZA Encryption posted:

Wow that's neat. Does it heat the battery pack?

Any charging must heat the battery pack, otherwise you will be arrested for violating the laws of physics. But it probably doesn't heat the pack like an induction hob heats a pan. There is an induction (inductive? inductee? inductivated?) loop in the car as well, absorbing the energy and turning into a charge flow.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:27

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

I guess I meant "more than plugging it in would"

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:29

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

RZA Encryption posted:

I guess I meant "more than plugging it in would"

Probably not in a way that makes a big difference. Think how a mobile phone can induction charge without seeing any disturbance on the screen or any problems with WiFi/4G. But 120 kW of anything will heat something, somehow.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:42

stevewm: May 10, 2005

RZA Encryption posted:

I guess I meant "more than plugging it in would"

Shouldn't be any difference..

It's the same amount of power, wired or wireless.

Maybe you are thinking of how Qi charging on phones generates a bit of heat? That is mostly down to inefficiency.. Qi charging is at most 60% efficient; a good bit of the energy is wasted in the coils as heat, thus heating up the phone and by extension the battery given that it is often directly in contact with the Qi receiver coil.

97% efficiency on the other hand is probably the same if not better than using a cable and connector, given that connectors can be corroded and vary in resistance.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:51

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Yeah, any time you see an efficiency rating, the inefficient portion is energy that's converted into waste energy. Energy can't be destroyed, but it can be converted into stuff we don't want/care about, like heat, noise, or unwanted movement. Presumably most of that 3% inefficiency is heat, with a little going to noise.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:59

pun pundit: Nov 11, 2008; I feel the same way about the company bearing the same name.

How practical it will be to replicate those laboratory results in the real world remains to be seen.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 18:59

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

stevewm posted:

Maybe you are thinking of how Qi charging on phones generates a bit of heat? That is mostly down to inefficiency.. Qi charging is at most 60% efficient;

Yep! Thanks for helping me understand the difference.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 19:43

stevewm: May 10, 2005

Time for the obligatory "winter stole my efficiency" post, or perhaps more accurately, the heater stole my efficiency.

From 115MPGe, to 65 MPGe

Why couldn't you have used a heat pump GM? WHY?!?

# ? Oct 22, 2018 19:54

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

Sounds like you need a driving snuggie

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:03

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Jesus, that�s Supercharger-fast, with no wires.

I wonder how big/heavy the receiver coil is.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:05

stevewm: May 10, 2005

RZA Encryption posted:

Sounds like you need a driving snuggie

LOL

I feel like this will be an eventual As-Seen-On-TV product.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:11

wolrah: May 8, 2006; what?

Sagebrush posted:

Also the average person doesn't give any poo poo whether their car is front-wheel- or rear-wheel-drive.

I have met a surprising number of people who know basically nothing about cars but at the same time are convinced that RWD means they're tempting fate any time snow falls. Somehow the fact that almost all cars were RWD up until the late '70s and the roads are full of older BMWs, Porsches, muscle cars, and pickups that get driven year round seems to just slip by them, marketing has them convinced that if they don't have AWD they want FWD.

Ola posted:

I've always been a bit of an induction nay-sayer, I've just been owned by the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

https://www.ornl.gov/news/ornl-demonstrates-120-kilowatt-wireless-charging-vehicles

It's kind of weird how they both undersell and oversell it in the same sentence with "rival the speed and convenience of a gas station". 120kW is still not even in the same zip code as the speed of a gas station. It's not like the charging solution is the limiting factor either, they even admit it just matches modern high speed wired charging solutions. It's still off by an order of magnitude compared to dino juice because batteries can't take the power fast enough and in a lot of places the grid might have trouble supplying it as well. The 10 gallons a passenger car fuel pump is allowed to pump every minute in the US is good for well over 200 miles in an average late-model vehicle. To match that charge rate even the most efficient EVs on the market would need to be sucking down over 3.5 megawatts.

At the same time though a practical wireless charging solution would beat the poo poo out of gas stations from a convenience standpoint. At worst a modern EV matches the convenience of fueling an ICE vehicle, if we're counting speed as a separate thing. You go to the place, you open the cover, and you put the handle thing in the hole so fuel can flow. Some of us may be able to refuel an ICE at work, but almost none of us can do it at home. EVs have a massive convenience advantage in that way, if you can charge somewhere you park for long periods of time you may almost never have to actually think about charging or take time out of your day to deal with it beyond 15 seconds hooking and unhooking the vehicle. A practical high-efficiency inductive solution would even eliminate that level of thought from the process. IMO that's what the marketing should focus on, who cares about speed when your vehicle will be parked there for hours?

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:17

DoLittle: Jul 26, 2006

3.6 kW of heat from the 120 kW is a significant amount of heat. Significantly more than typical engine block and indoor eaters used in cold climates. Nothing that an EV cooling couldn't handle of course, but the cooling probably needs to be active while charging at least.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:22

Qwijib0: Apr 10, 2007; Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?; Fun Shoe

I'm more interested in a theoretical 7.2KW garage mat version, ~220w of waste at about 20mph for a 3 is much more reasonable in terms of overhead and dissipation.

The 120KW+ versions make a lot more sense for transit-- put coils at scheduled bus stops.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 20:52

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Qwijib0 posted:

I'm more interested in a theoretical 7.2KW garage mat version, ~220w of waste at about 20mph for a 3 is much more reasonable in terms of overhead and dissipation.

The 120KW+ versions make a lot more sense for transit-- put coils at scheduled bus stops.

How absurd would it be to put a bunch of them in freeways + roadside solar panels to provide small maintenance charges as you drive?

# ? Oct 22, 2018 21:13

Saukkis: May 16, 2003; Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

DoLittle posted:

3.6 kW of heat from the 120 kW is a significant amount of heat. Significantly more than typical engine block and indoor eaters used in cold climates. Nothing that an EV cooling couldn't handle of course, but the cooling probably needs to be active while charging at least.

I doubt that heat actually ended up in the battery. I would think the missing 3% went out during the wireless transfer. Although the article doesn't make it clear.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 21:26

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

builds character posted:

How absurd would it be to put a bunch of them in freeways + roadside solar panels to provide small maintenance charges as you drive?

Pretty absurd. I can't imagine that the hardware involved in a high-wattage inductive loop is particularly cheap in terms of cost per square meter covered. Roadside solar panels also are not anywhere near power-dense enough to provide meaningful extra power.

If you want to charge while you drive, install a conductive rail in the road and have your car tap into that. But then your "car" is a trolley.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 21:52

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

wolrah posted:

I have met a surprising number of people who know basically nothing about cars but at the same time are convinced that RWD means they're tempting fate any time snow falls. Somehow the fact that almost all cars were RWD up until the late '70s and the roads are full of older BMWs, Porsches, muscle cars, and pickups that get driven year round seems to just slip by them, marketing has them convinced that if they don't have AWD they want FWD.

FWD, front engine, and transverse is like, vastly better for 95% of drivers than any other possible configuration

# ? Oct 22, 2018 22:25

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

FWD, front engine, and transverse is like, vastly better for 95% of drivers than any other possible configuration

The loss of control mode is simply more forgiving of abject incompetence.

Unless you get into high-speed understeer, in which case you�re hosed.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 22:31

Cockmaster: Feb 24, 2002

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

If you want to charge while you drive, install a conductive rail in the road and have your car tap into that. But then your "car" is a trolley.

VW and Siemens experimented with powering trucks from overhead lines, like trains:

https://insideevs.com/vw-siemens-team-up-for-long-haul-electric-trucks/

# ? Oct 22, 2018 22:33

bawfuls: Oct 28, 2009

DoLittle posted:

3.6 kW of heat from the 120 kW is a significant amount of heat. Significantly more than typical engine block and indoor eaters used in cold climates. Nothing that an EV cooling couldn't handle of course, but the cooling probably needs to be active while charging at least.

This is going to be true for every high power charging system, wireless or not.

# ? Oct 22, 2018 23:09

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Cockmaster posted:

VW and Siemens experimented with powering trucks from overhead lines, like trains:

https://insideevs.com/vw-siemens-team-up-for-long-haul-electric-trucks/

https://blog.adafruit.com/2018/09/20/toyota-prius-hacked-to-connect-with-san-franciscos-muni-power-lines/

Probably bullshit, but the picture is great.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 00:30

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Yeah, any time you see an efficiency rating, the inefficient portion is energy that's converted into waste energy. Energy can't be destroyed, but it can be converted into stuff we don't want/care about, like heat, noise, or unwanted movement. Presumably most of that 3% inefficiency is heat, with a little going to noise.

I kind of want to know what it would sound like if it were all noise.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 02:44

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; BREADS

Godholio posted:

I kind of want to know what it would sound like if it were all noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnoNITE-CLc&t=110s

# ? Oct 23, 2018 02:52

Qwijib0: Apr 10, 2007; Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?; Fun Shoe

Seat Safety Switch posted:

https://blog.adafruit.com/2018/09/20/toyota-prius-hacked-to-connect-with-san-franciscos-muni-power-lines/

Probably bullshit, but the picture is great.

Love "Jon" in the muni font :haw:

# ? Oct 23, 2018 04:51

Three Olives: Apr 10, 2005; Don't forget Hitler's contributions to medicine.

ratbert90 posted:

The Bolt and Leaf both have terrible interiors compared to the 3, and the software is hot garbage as well.
Also the range of both is also terrible compared to the 3.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 05:26

Duck and Cover: Apr 6, 2007

Three Olives posted:

I thought the exterior was kind of ugly but earlier I saw the interior; it has an asymmetrical dash. The i3 though does have some sweet wheel options.

Edit: Oh I didn't make this post clear I think the interior is awful.

Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Oct 23, 2018

# ? Oct 23, 2018 06:37

Warrior Princess: Sep 29, 2014; What?

I really dislike the exterior aesthetics of the i3. I can't get over how displeasing it is to look, mostly just the front end, but yea I guess the wheels are nice.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 07:51

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

The rear end of the i3 looks like it's pooping out a different car

# ? Oct 23, 2018 16:07

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

I guess I don't understand car aesthetics. The i3 looks like a car. :shrug:

# ? Oct 23, 2018 16:23

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

Have they said anything about an i3 with 200+mi range? You have to add a gas motor to get close with their current configurations, right?

# ? Oct 23, 2018 16:29

Computer viking: May 30, 2011; Now with less breakage.

I kind of like the i3, it's like they forgot the "now make it look normal" step between prototype and production.

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:01

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

RZA Encryption posted:

You have to add a gas motor to get close with their current configurations, right?

The REx isn't much of a motor, since it's basically a gas powered generator that charges up the battery for you.

It's a little weird when it runs, because it'll poop out 5 miles of range or so then go quiet, then ramp up again when your range gets pretty low.
Plus, there's a major limit to how much it can produce, so you're hosed if you're going up a hill or need to maintain your 75mph cruising speed.

VvV
It's not an electrical issue. It's literally designed as a battery charger to get you to the next plug-in point. Which, to be fair, is not exactly a point made obvious by BMW.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 23, 2018

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:04

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# ? May 29, 2024 20:25

ilkhan: Oct 7, 2004; I LOVE Musk and his pro-first-amendment ways. X is the future.

Electrical issues on a German car? Who would have thunk it.

Earnings report for Tesla is coming out tomorrow. Bets on good/bad?

# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The EV Thread - I opted for the performance GPU package

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