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AnEdgelord posted:One of the cool things about Cathay is that they seem to have open Tzeentch worship with few ill effects (or maybe they are just ok with the ill effects). I'd like to see the concept of a Chaos worshipping civilization explored a bit more as opposed to the barbarian tribes or marauding pirates we usually see. In the RPG, this is how Norsca is - most tribes have a whole pantheon of gods, among whom the Chaos Gods are merely four, and that most Norscan tribes aren't given over to Chaos. Instead, most Norscans are more like the historical Vikings - raiders sometimes sure, but more often explorers and especially traders, some of the most adventurous in the world. One funny little touch is that a current fad among Imperial, Tilean, and Estalian noblewomen is having a strapping, exotic beefcake of a Norscan warrior as a bodyguard... and quite possibly more, behind closed doors.
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Oct 30, 2018 00:30
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Fantasy societies aren't uniformly totalitarian nightmare shitholes like societies in 40k. The Empire can be legitimately read as "good guys" unlike the Imperium in 40k, and none of the "good" or "neutral" aligned races have awful fascist skeletons in their closets. The Skaven do, but they were originally designed in part as a mocking caricature of neo nazis and have never been treated as right or good.Dramicus posted:It's not to say that some places aren't better than others. You forgot to mention the Inquisition, Witch Hunters, and various religious cults that may or may not try to nail you to a cross. The witch hunters aren't ever portrayed as remotely as powerful or pervasive as the Inquisition in 40k, because the Church of Sigmar itself isn't an invincibly powerful political organ. A witch hunter can theoretically bully and burn peasants but he may have to answer for it politically if the local ruler isn't a dickhead, and witch hunters aren't allowed to simply disappear anyone they don't like like 40k Inquisitors are. Some degree of witch hunting is necessary and expected when your world setting includes literal, actual witches and sorcerers that are aligned with nightmare gods who want to undermine and destroy civilization. Kanos fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 00:34
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Cythereal posted:One funny little touch is that a current fad among Imperial, Tilean, and Estalian noblewomen is having a strapping, exotic beefcake of a Norscan warrior as a bodyguard... and quite possibly more, behind closed doors. Some kind of Tilean/Estalian Varangian Guard would be a cool unit. Norscans with plate armor and great swords or something. Kanos posted:Some degree of witch hunting is necessary and expected when your world setting includes literal, actual witches and sorcerers that are aligned with nightmare gods who want to undermine and destroy civilization. To that end, most of the garbage in the Imperium can similarly be justified as it's the same situation, just turned up to 11. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 00:34
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I mean, there are nice planets in the Imperium too, it's just that nothing interesting and model-worthy ever happens there.
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Oct 30, 2018 00:46
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Dramicus posted:It's not to say that some places aren't better than others. You forgot to mention the Inquisition, Witch Hunters, and various religious cults that may or may not try to nail you to a cross. The cults in the Empire - beyond the crazy flagellants that creep out everyone - are pretty chill in general, I don't think I've ever read about someone getting crucified in the Empire in fantasy. The cult of Sigmar is more of a civic religion, and the other Gods are patrons of specific activities or spheres of influence. Other than Ulric worshippers being occasionaly bitter over the standing of the Sigmarite cult, it is pretty harmonic. Chaos cults excepted, of course. Still better than Calvinists.
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Oct 30, 2018 00:53
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ZearothK posted:The cults in the Empire - beyond the crazy flagellants that creep out everyone - are pretty chill in general, I don't think I've ever read about someone getting crucified in the Empire in fantasy. The cult of Sigmar is more of a civic religion, and the other Gods are patrons of specific activities or spheres of influence. Other than Ulric worshippers being occasionaly bitter over the standing of the Sigmarite cult, it is pretty harmonic. Again, taking the RPG books' view, this is pretty accurate. The biggest jerks in the Imperial pantheon are the Sigmarites, mainly because they hate people having fun and are constantly paranoid about Chaos. They've persecuted more than one cult of an odd but basically harmless god to extinction, and often do hassle other cults when they go against the Imperial norm - such as Rhya, the goddess of agriculture and fertility, who says sex and the body are nothing to be ashamed of and her cult believes that Sigmarites ranting about how women showing their ankles is pornographic are in reality inviting Slaanesh in through repression. Ulric's main issue is one of toxic masculinity in his cult. Ulric himself? Chill god who is also the god of self-reliance, so he regards his cult as getting what they deserve for becoming an increasingly irrelevant faith in the world. Except for the wolf knight guys. Even people who think Ulric is a relic of a barbaric and uncivilized era like those guys. And just as Ulric's faith is waning in the Empire, Myrmidia's is on the rise. Her faith is steadily creeping into the Empire from Tilea and Estalia as her message of fighting with your brain first finds increasing resonance with the growing professionalization of the Imperial military and importance of proper war academies. Her knightly order helps a lot, too, as does Myrmidia openly welcoming guns, artillery, and whatever else people come up with. Of note, in the new edition Rhya is officially a-okay with homosexuality.
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Oct 30, 2018 01:06
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Chaos Space Marines have the novelty of being a sci-if fantasy juxtaposition, but they make it hard for any other Chaos characters to be anything other than cannon fodder, tortured drudge, or a living sacrifice. Most other guys who gets the spotlight tends to get the hammer dropped on them.There are many types of space marine, with many backgrounds a clashing personalities, but they're all still space marines. In Fantasy, it's easier for Joe Schmo to make a name for himself with the Chaos gods. And the fun thing about Norsca is that they worship Chaos, but have to concern themselves with day-to-day survival, building a functioning society, forming a family and raising children instead of just being a slavering horde 24/7. Of course you can do that in 40K, where any kind of society you can imagine exists, but you usually end up defaulting to a faceless thrall of a giant in power armor with no discernible interests other than war.
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Oct 30, 2018 01:25
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Dr Christmas posted:Chaos Space Marines have the novelty of being a sci-if fantasy juxtaposition, but they make it hard for any other Chaos characters to be anything other than cannon fodder, tortured drudge, or a living sacrifice. Most other guys who gets the spotlight tends to get the hammer dropped on them.There are many types of space marine, with many backgrounds a clashing personalities, but they're all still space marines. the 40k RPG books by fantasy flight games do cover some of the societies that exist under chaos. there's everything from Dark Edgy Forgeworlds, to idyllic but bizarre sorceror worlds wiith magical cities and warp-based technology.
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Oct 30, 2018 01:32
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juggalo baby coffin posted:the 40k RPG books by fantasy flight games do cover some of the societies that exist under chaos. there's everything from Dark Edgy Forgeworlds, to idyllic but bizarre sorceror worlds wiith magical cities and warp-based technology. The black crusade rpg line is one of the best explorations of Chaos ever printed and it is downright criminal it never took off like the other 40k rpgs. I'm really glad that I picked up all of the physical books when I did.
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Oct 30, 2018 01:34
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The most annoying mechanical glitch with Total Warhammer easily has to be the fact that it can be very difficult to get your lord to actually engage with or fight another lord while mixed in with other units. Just lost a battle because Settra got wiped out by some orc warboss piece of poo poo because he was bogged down in random goblins and wouldn't fight the lord, even though he had spears nearby that were engaging the goblins. The way lords lose focus on other lords or don't effectively fight them even while getting destroyed by them is very frustrating at times
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Oct 30, 2018 02:05
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AnEdgelord posted:The black crusade rpg line is one of the best explorations of Chaos ever printed and it is downright criminal it never took off like the other 40k rpgs. I'm really glad that I picked up all of the physical books when I did. yeah black crusade is super cool in every lore thing it adds, idk if it counts as full canon but it should
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Oct 30, 2018 02:26
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There's really no substantive difference "on the tin" between a chaos warrior and a chaos space marine, to the point that they look virtually indistinguishable in many art pieces. Luckily there's a lot that can be mined out of vikings, and I feel like CA has done more of the work there than GW, given that there's a lot of Norscan lore that GW left on the table (or off, so to speak). They do have more to do fluff-wise than wallow in nihilistic evil and insanity, but it's still what they're about on the tin. Making them a part of the Fantasy Middle Ages gives them more useful context for where they can fit in the setting beyond MURDERDEATHKILL, but in broad strokes I don't agree with the idea that Fantasy is significantly lighter than 40K. The undead and skaven threaten every corner of the planet, with both effectively impossible to destroy. Most of the northern hemisphere is controlled with no serious challenge by one chaos faction or another, be it chaos warriors or dark elves, and where they aren't present elsewhere there are beastmen behind every tree and some chaos dwarves to round it out. The elves, dwarves, and lizardmen are races in full military and cultural decline. Cities are surrounded by uncounted miles of untamed wilderness, and human cities are in such a state of squalor and decay that rat catcher is an ubiquitous job--and those guys know better than to talk about rats with the uninitiated. Chaos is such an existential danger that an entire race was created to keep it in check, and the Empire is sustained on its superior firepower and blind faith, but nevertheless only survives because its enemies are consumed with infighting--can't really think of what that reminds me of. Describing the Sigmar Cult and then going "but that's nothing like 40K" with a straight face probably takes some practice. Fantasy is much less xenophobic than 40K--you don't have to bend over backwards nearly as far to figure out how to put humans into a team with any other group--and it has real-world grounding that makes it more relatable, so it's more difficult to generalize. But there's piles of 40k literature that aren't just the themes of the setting by any other name. There are many humans and chaos duders alike who don't know what a space marine is. There's the entire rogue trader thing, which stands apart from the general "rules" of the setting, and to a lesser extent there's inquisition stuff you can do, where an inquisitor is supposedly a ruthless witch hunter but in practice there is simply no standard inquisitor.
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Oct 30, 2018 03:28
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Fantasy is much less xenophobic than 40K This is the huge part that differentiates Fantasy from 40k in terms of lightness because it's sort of key to the fascist overtones of 40k.
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Oct 30, 2018 03:44
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i dont like to toot my own horn but in the old thread i laid out vampire coast as a possible dlc faction and posted all the cool pictures of the deck droppers and the gunnery zombies and said it would be super cool if they were a faction. i didnt actually have any hope at the time, but i called it damnit!
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Oct 30, 2018 03:55
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Sodomy Hussein posted:There's really no substantive difference "on the tin" between a chaos warrior and a chaos space marine, to the point that they look virtually indistinguishable in many art pieces. Luckily there's a lot that can be mined out of vikings, and I feel like CA has done more of the work there than GW, given that there's a lot of Norscan lore that GW left on the table (or off, so to speak). They do have more to do fluff-wise than wallow in nihilistic evil and insanity, but it's still what they're about on the tin. Making them a part of the Fantasy Middle Ages gives them more useful context for where they can fit in the setting beyond MURDERDEATHKILL, but in broad strokes I don't agree with the idea that Fantasy is significantly lighter than 40K. The undead aren't nearly as ubiquitous as all that. Their only huge strongholds in normal times(i.e. not the end times) are Nehekhara(which is the Tomb Kings chill undead that don't hate humans who don't trespass) and Sylvania, and the Sylvanian undead have been broken and destroyed by the Empire and the Dwarfs on at least two huge occasions despite appearing unbeatable. There are other isolated strongholds of them(Mousillon) and various wandering assholes(Kemmler) plus your petty hedge necromancers and stuff, but you're not going to take ten steps outside of Altdorf and get mugged by a zombie flash mob. They're just not a significant organized threat unless they're under a vampire or a powerful necromancer, and powerful vampires and necromancers who try to start poo poo generally get murdered by the good guys(see: Vlad, Konrad, Mannfred). Cities are surrounded by wilderness and human cities have a fair amount of squalor because it's a medieval setting on the edge of the Enlightenment, not because civilization is backsliding into oblivion. That wilderness hasn't been lost to civilization, it hasn't been tamed in the first place yet. The Empire is a state on the rise, not on the decline. They're inventing new things and developing and progressing instead of stagnating and declining. Stuff like Helblasters and Helstorms and Luminarks are new inventions dreamed up by modern Empire engineering instead of ancient relics or hundreds-of-year-old proven designs, with more new ideas on the way like mechanical horses. Chaos tries to invade over and over and over and is smashed back and defeated over and over and over by the plucky humans. Before the End Times, our two biggest examples of a Chaos invasion were the Great War Against Chaos, where Chaos was smashed to paste at the city of Kislev by Magnus the Pious with the help of the Kislevites and Teclis, and the Storm of Chaos, wherein Archaon the Everchosen, mightiest champion of Chaos, united the entire armed might of the Chaos Gods and swept south....and got his rear end kicked before he got past Middenheim. The Empire has a pretty good track record of beating Chaos silly; they have won when Chaos, supposedly the unstoppable end of the world, was united in all of its power and glory. Hell, even during the lovely rear end End Times, the literal end of the world where Chaos takes everything, the only reason why Chaos won is because Mannfred stabbed the good guys in the back at the 11th hour. Dwarfs and Elves and Lizardmen are declining, but Teclis himself decides to put his trust in humanity because he believes that they are the future.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:01
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also the skaven are so busy fighting each other, and so cowardly, that the empire can reasonably keep up the appearance that they don't exist at all. they're a huge threat, but only in the same way the yellowstone volcano is a huge threat to us: it has to erupt first.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:14
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gently caress, Settra on Mortal Empires actually is pretty hard. I'm about 30 turns in and just can't quite put the Top Knotz out of the fight. They've got about 4 stacks, I've got 2, I keep winning the fights but can't keep my armies healthy enough to take Galbaraz. Game is hard edit: Managed to sneak an army around by ambushing, knock holes in the walls with a necrotect, I am the savage orc now terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 04:25
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Kanos posted:The Empire is a state on the rise, not on the decline. They're inventing new things and developing and progressing instead of stagnating and declining. Stuff like Helblasters and Helstorms and Luminarks are new inventions dreamed up by modern Empire engineering instead of ancient relics or hundreds-of-year-old proven designs, with more new ideas on the way like mechanical horses. Chaos tries to invade over and over and over and is smashed back and defeated over and over and over by the plucky humans. Before the End Times, our two biggest examples of a Chaos invasion were the Great War Against Chaos, where Chaos was smashed to paste at the city of Kislev by Magnus the Pious with the help of the Kislevites and Teclis, and the Storm of Chaos, wherein Archaon the Everchosen, mightiest champion of Chaos, united the entire armed might of the Chaos Gods and swept south....and got his rear end kicked before he got past Middenheim. The Empire has a pretty good track record of beating Chaos silly; they have won when Chaos, supposedly the unstoppable end of the world, was united in all of its power and glory. Hell, even during the lovely rear end End Times, the literal end of the world where Chaos takes everything, the only reason why Chaos won is because Mannfred stabbed the good guys in the back at the 11th hour. Perhaps you would be interested in this growing collection of space marine ships, mech suits, and autocannons also stop trying to pretend that mail-in result events that were pre-engineered not to change the setting have anything on Abaddon the Armless Failure and his thirteen crusades of whatever "the setting is more stagnant than 40K" is not "it's lighter than 40K!"
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Oct 30, 2018 04:28
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I like 40K and Fantasy, in different ways. Can't we just all get along?
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Oct 30, 2018 04:33
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Mordja posted:I like 40K and Fantasy, in different ways. Can't we just all get along? Suffer not the xeno to post E: anyway your post is pretty much my point, they are the same and different in various important ways, but it's rather silly to call one definitively better when they are written by the same outfit and share extremely similar themes in many cases. At one point after all Fantasy was explicitly a 40K planet, which is perhaps most evident in the lizardmen backstory. Name Change fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 04:34
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Mordja posted:I like 40K and Fantasy, in different ways. Can't we just all get along? In a game called Total War?
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Oct 30, 2018 04:37
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juggalo baby coffin posted:also the skaven are so busy fighting each other, and so cowardly, that the empire can reasonably keep up the appearance that they don't exist at all. they're a huge threat, but only in the same way the yellowstone volcano is a huge threat to us: it has to erupt first. Just put some large glue traps down, it'll be fine.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:42
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Suffer not the xeno to post My argument isn't really about which is better or worse, but which is more optimistic or pessimistic. 40k is pessimistic to its core and Fantasy really is not.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:49
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well, fantasy wasn't until they decided to end it via apocalypse. but that's fine to ignore in my opinion.
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Oct 30, 2018 04:55
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Even the elves and dwarves aren't doomed races. Their fortunes are being pushed back by people like Thorgrim or the twins who bring in new ideas, openness with the outside world, and battlefield leadership instead of being mired in tradition.
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Oct 30, 2018 05:12
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i made even more khemri tv memes, this time with a vampire coast theme:  
juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 06:25
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From a performance view point, is higher clock speed, or more cores better for total war games? Does it parallelise well?
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Oct 30, 2018 06:35
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Keep putting those deck droppers in the background it’s great
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Oct 30, 2018 06:46
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terrorist ambulance posted:The most annoying mechanical glitch with Total Warhammer easily has to be the fact that it can be very difficult to get your lord to actually engage with or fight another lord while mixed in with other units. Just lost a battle because Settra got wiped out by some orc warboss piece of poo poo because he was bogged down in random goblins and wouldn't fight the lord, even though he had spears nearby that were engaging the goblins. The way lords lose focus on other lords or don't effectively fight them even while getting destroyed by them is very frustrating at times I've found that this tends to happen a lot more when you have guard mode on for the lord, so turning it off is key. That said, when the target enemy lord routs or even just disengages, you'll have to make sure your lord keeps at them because they will get ensnared in an enemy unit and lose aggro otherwise.
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Oct 30, 2018 07:01
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Guard mode should pretty much always be put on every ranged/artillery/Lord, with the exception of dueling Lords. Skirmish should only ever be applied to pistoliers and similar units. Knowing these two things will make your games a lot better and less annoying. Nothing like wondering where your archers are, and they're in melee because they moved forward to chase down the enemy archers they routed. Right into the frontline.
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Oct 30, 2018 07:06
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Salted_Pork posted:From a performance view point, is higher clock speed, or more cores better for total war games? Does it parallelise well? If you are at a resolution above 1080p, there's no difference between the high-end processors; the main limiting factor will be your GPU. Intel will have a 10-15% advantage at 1080p and below.
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Oct 30, 2018 08:59
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Dramicus posted:If you are at a resolution above 1080p, there's no difference between the high-end processors; the main limiting factor will be your GPU. Intel will have a 10-15% advantage at 1080p and below. Does this count for turn times as well? They seem like they would be cpu intensive.
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Oct 30, 2018 09:12
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Does guard mode override attack commands? As in: I directly tell my archers to attack their archers, once their guys rout will mine chase or stay put?
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Oct 30, 2018 09:28
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Nuramor posted:Does guard mode override attack commands? As in: I directly tell my archers to attack their archers, once their guys rout will mine chase or stay put? Edit: to clarify, if you set your archers to guard and then tell them to attack a target outside of their range or cone of fire, they will perform that initial manoeuvre by moving to put the target just within their maximum range. Once they’ve found a spot and begun firing, they won’t pursue if the target moves or they lose line of sight, such as other troops blocking the shot of your handguns Scandalous fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Oct 30, 2018 |
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Oct 30, 2018 09:32
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its extremely good that every skrolk game i start ends with me endlessly failing to defeat the lizardmen because any unit i can field for 30 turns or so is too weak to take on the garrison at itza
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Oct 30, 2018 11:49
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yeah lizardmen never break. same with dwarfs
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Oct 30, 2018 12:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8RqJ3QVLA new video that pirate accent though 
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Oct 30, 2018 13:26
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juggalo baby coffin posted:i made even more khemri tv memes, this time with a vampire coast theme: the vampire coast models are surfing around all the settings like the shooting stars memes from last year
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Oct 30, 2018 13:27
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juggalo baby coffin posted:i made even more khemri tv memes, this time with a vampire coast theme: These are great, I'm laughing piratically.
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Oct 30, 2018 16:02
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Salted_Pork posted:Does this count for turn times as well? They seem like they would be cpu intensive. Maybe I'll take some exact measurements to eliminate confirmation bias but I'm pretty sure there was a significant improvement in end of turn times on the ME map for me when I OC'd my I5-6600k from the stock turbo of 3.9ghz to 4.5ghz. This is running at 1440p with a RX580, so the FPS is certainly GPU capped, but the end turn times seem much faster with the clock speed bump.
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