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habeasdorkus posted:
Yeah. Even the blurb in the book the totem is introduced in explicitly warns that Adversary *really* has trouble working with others, unless he's the one in charge. (about as explicit as the books usually get to saying "this totem works better for NPCs and opponents than actual PCs")
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Oct 31, 2018 14:33
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Kanfy posted:Usually they attach a surname to these kinds of things, but it's not until Hong Kong that you actually get to pick one at character creation. At least the thread was kind enough not to pick some terrible street name for us, JazzGuzzlerXIV Civic Center would've been an awkward one to print on flyers. Y'know, an even better name would have been Honda 
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Oct 31, 2018 14:48
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inscrutable horse posted:Y'know, an even better name would have been Honda That's orders of magnitude better than the joke I was going to make about 420 and 360 noscopes. kaosdrachen posted:Well, yeah. "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." The Adversary - especially the more Toxic aspects of the totem - are all about rebelling against any authority except themselves. They need to be the one in charge, and everything else can burn. At least they have a banging theme song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZuxwVk7TU
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Oct 31, 2018 15:02
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I stand by the naming of the Shootout Civic Center. 
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Oct 31, 2018 15:08
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The Horned Man/Horned God is mentioned as the patron spirit before Glory realizes it's really The Adversary, but they don't really say what he is. Horned Man is Jungeon archetype for deities like Pan and Bacchus and his aspects include drunkenness, madness, wildness, and virility. A Horned Man cult probably would have been a good time. Since Adversary only has contempt for followers, I wonder if he would have still turned on Glory, if she took off and did her own thing? I also not sure if Harrow is technically Toxic. He is still following the tenets of his totem, just Adversary is a bit of a dick.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:14
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Horned Man/Adversary chat is a good topic for today's date  Others have touched on it, but could you actually have a shaman of The Adversary who wasn't a toxic terrible person? I know most totems have that "can run it either way" aspect, but this one seems tailor made for  antics. How would you run/flavor it?
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Oct 31, 2018 16:35
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RedMagus posted:Horned Man/Adversary chat is a good topic for today's date I mean, in a world run almost entirely by terrible people and terrible dragons, someone blessed by a spirit of rebellion doesn't have to be a bad person at all. There's some overlap with Dragonslayer here, like I said, except that Dragonslayer doesn't care about whether you're going up against an authority as long as it's something bigger and more powerful than you, and Adversary doesn't care about seeking out bigger and bigger threats as long as you're not selling out to the Man, man. The main problem is that Adversary is really hard to make as a team player; they don't really do structure unless they're in charge, so they work best as NPCs.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:48
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kaosdrachen posted:Hoo boy. That's a breathtaking understatement, there. If you think of it as going to the Dark Side of the Force you're not actually that far off. Toxics don't always start out homicidally crazy, but they usually eventually wind up there regardless. Not only do they usually dedicate their lives to corrupting and destroying everything the 'benevolent' version of the Totem stands for, they actively draw power from the ensuing corruption. Basicly imagine a Batman villain from the darker comic books. RedMagus posted:Others have touched on it, but could you actually have a shaman of The Adversary who wasn't a toxic terrible person? I know most totems have that "can run it either way" aspect, but this one seems tailor made for Hell, Dietrich could be an Adversary shaman and he'd change very little. It and the Dragonslayer have a lot in common. The difference is just that the Adversary is less picky about what you're rebelling against and is more willing to use unethical tactics.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:54
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I'm surprised they didn't mention older traditions given they use the title THE ADVERSARY for him. I wouldn't really call the original Satan a spirit of rebellion in the slightest. He's a prosecutor. The name literally means the adversary in a legal case. Everything he does is done with explicit permission from his higher up until later on in interpretation and tradition. That said, by the time this is all happening he'd definitely be seen as the spirit of rebellion and closer to the devil, so you know. It makes sense, just odd that they use his original name without mentioning anything about it.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:55
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Hmm, I wonder how the Adversary would feel about cooperative agency. There's not really a man to rebel against in that type of system... though maybe you'd just end up rebelling against the consensus/majority. It's pretty easy to envision Adversary Shaman hero who manages to build up a serious social movement on behalf of the disempowered... that then gets disillusioned and tries to tear down their own side when they're on the cusp of real and lasting success for being too compromising.
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Oct 31, 2018 16:58
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habeasdorkus posted:That's orders of magnitude better than the joke I was going to make about 420 and 360 noscopes. 
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Oct 31, 2018 17:11
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Totally worth it.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:31
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habeasdorkus posted:Also, poor Glory. Poor Glory's mom. Poor kids in Fuerstelle. There's a response to Glory's question of how do you run from something tied to your soul that something akin to "Oh, God, Glory... I'm so sorry." I'm kind of surprised Rosa didn't take that one, as she would be very, very cognizant of what tearing away at ones essence would look and feel like, but I suppose Kanfy's trying to portray somebody with a sterner front than that. Because that sort of tearing at the essence is really, really bad  , and even my non-mage character winced.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:44
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I'm not sure what Feuerstelle is supposed to be. There is no town in our world named that. A suburb of Stuttgart is called Feuerbach,and a Station is called Feuersee.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:32
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Jesus gently caress, can't you hug glory?
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Oct 31, 2018 18:39
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Siegkrow posted:Jesus gently caress, can't you hug glory? Runners typically are not huggers, Rosa's apparent desire for amateur therapy notwithstanding.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:45
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habeasdorkus posted:Wonder if you could get an Adversary shaman who was also a fascist. The two shouldn't work together, but the cruelty towards others and the sense of oppression at any hindering of their own right to be complete loving dicks seems like a common thread throughout fascists despite their position in reinforcing the extant social order. If they see themselves as rebelling against some monolithic enemy that's keeping them down and corrupting their culture, then I could see a fascist Adversary shaman working. Even if the monolithic enemy doesn't really exist. Toxic shamans can be interesting from a writing or GMing perspective. You can take a far-out or loose interpretation of a totem's various aspects and go all slippery-slope on them, creating a bizarre extreme for your villain to embody. I have an idea I keep meaning to develop for an opposed pair of toxic Mouse shamans. Mouse has both a pastoral aspect and a domestic one - the field mouse versus the house mouse. The opposed shamans would be an avenger type, who would lay waste to civilization and allow nature to reclaim all land, and a despoiler type, who would pave over nature and cover it in soulless development for its own sake. This idea came about after reading how the domains of man and the associated spirits could become toxic. The whole thing is a play on the story of the Town Mouse and the Country Mouse.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:52
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:I'm not sure what Feuerstelle is supposed to be. There is no town in our world named that. A suburb of Stuttgart is called Feuerbach,and a Station is called Feuersee. It's a commune in the countryside, not a munincipality.
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Oct 31, 2018 18:55
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resurgam40 posted:There's a response to Glory's question of how do you run from something tied to your soul that something akin to "Oh, God, Glory... I'm so sorry." I'm kind of surprised Rosa didn't take that one, as she would be very, very cognizant of what tearing away at ones essence would look and feel like, but I suppose Kanfy's trying to portray somebody with a sterner front than that. Because that sort of tearing at the essence is really, really bad That's more or less it, I do my best to keep her personality as consistent as I can within the confines of the dialogue system rather than always picking the "best" responses depending on who we talk to. In this case I found the most neutral tone the best-fitting. You can also go the opposite direction, here's some Jerk Rosa responses: quote:
quote:
quote:
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Oct 31, 2018 19:19
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But I was kidding myself, of course. My new deity was the very definition of bad. Serving it made *me* bad. End of story.
Go ahead, make your excuses. We all make our own choices in life, and when you chose to hurt innocent kids, my sympathy for you went right out the window.
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Will Glory leave the group if you take the Jerk responses here?
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Oct 31, 2018 19:26
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Night10194 posted:I'm surprised they didn't mention older traditions given they use the title THE ADVERSARY for him. And now I'm imaging Shadowrun Phoenix Wright shouting  instead of a forcebolt.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:37
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Captain Foo posted:Will Glory leave the group if you take the Jerk responses here? No, if you let her start she'll finish the whole story regardless of what you say. In general crew members tend to stick around no matter what you say or do, like how Dietrich tells you he won't abandon Eiger and Glory even if he hates your guts because you left him out of the Humanis run. There is at least one exception, but it's very obviously telegraphed (as in they openly say "I'll leave for good") and you still have a chance to take it back afterwards. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 19:38
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RedMagus posted:And now I'm imaging Shadowrun Phoenix Wright shouting I would pay huge money to see Phoenix Wright contend with Ha-Satan.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:44
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paragon1 posted:It's a commune in the countryside, not a munincipality. Well, i overread that one,thanks.
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Oct 31, 2018 20:08
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Bansheenion is the name of my new giant robot anime.
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Oct 31, 2018 22:53
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The Lone Badger posted:But.... Harrow is an authority figure. At least to the members of his cult. And he's not exactly encouraging them to rebel against him.
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Nov 1, 2018 04:43
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oh god ahahaha
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Nov 1, 2018 05:34
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IMJack posted:If they see themselves as rebelling against some monolithic enemy that's keeping them down and corrupting their culture, then I could see a fascist Adversary shaman working. Even if the monolithic enemy doesn't really exist. So does the manner of a shaman's toxicity change depending on their totem? Like a toxic bull shaman would run around and break poo poo, while a toxic fish shaman would be all pissing in the river? Or does it just mean they still act within the rules of their totem spirit only they're bad now?
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Nov 1, 2018 05:40
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Crane Fist posted:So does the manner of a shaman's toxicity change depending on their totem? Like a toxic bull shaman would run around and break poo poo, while a toxic fish shaman would be all pissing in the river? Or does it just mean they still act within the rules of their totem spirit only they're bad now? It means you do whatever's associated with your totem but in mean or evil ways. You still have to do things your totem likes - just the things the worst facet of it would like.
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Nov 1, 2018 08:46
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Siegkrow posted:Jesus gently caress, can't you hug glory? 
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Nov 1, 2018 09:14
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Crane Fist posted:So does the manner of a shaman's toxicity change depending on their totem? Like a toxic bull shaman would run around and break poo poo, while a toxic fish shaman would be all pissing in the river? Or does it just mean they still act within the rules of their totem spirit only they're bad now? Both, really. Toxic shamans can act like the worst example of their totem, or they can take a normally benign aspect of their totem and twist it to absurdity. Toxic shamans are usually pursuing an agenda, typically one that spreads their brand of corruption or destruction to create an environment of toxic magic. To use your examples, the Bull totem is a proud leader who fiercely protects himself and those he cares for. A toxic Bull shaman could go to a paranoid extreme, isolating their loved ones and violently driving out any outsiders or perceived threats. It calls to mind a survivalist enclave in the middle of nowhere, a domineering patriarch keeping a scared family cut off from the world "for their own good". The Fish totem is described as quick, clever, and insightful, in order to escape from fishermen and predators. A Fish shaman could go toxic when the ecosystem of their home goes haywire thanks to things like overfishing or pollution upstream. The toxic shaman might revel in that kind of cascading disaster, looking to cause more of it, but also looking to troll those that would try to stop them, leading them on a merry chase and frustrating them at every turn. Pissing in the river, yes, and getting away with it.
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Nov 1, 2018 10:09
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Then there are Shamans who follow totems like Radiation, Pollution, or Plague. Those guys are just bad news all around.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:24
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My totem Hexxus says I should totally destroy all the rain forests
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Nov 1, 2018 15:20
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Crane Fist posted:So does the manner of a shaman's toxicity change depending on their totem? Like a toxic bull shaman would run around and break poo poo, while a toxic fish shaman would be all pissing in the river? Or does it just mean they still act within the rules of their totem spirit only they're bad now? it's one of the neat things about toxic shamans- shamanism is a two-way street. totems warp their followers, sure, but so too do their followers warp their totems. and the human mind is remarkably good at finding interpretations that serve themselves. the Adversary is He Who Opposes. he is a seducer, a rabble-rouser, a rebel. if your goal is to get together a group of your friends and burn the corrupt authority and all its pointless laws to ash, you have a friend in the Adversary. much as Dragonslayer doesn't care about what you're fighting as long as it's bigger than you, Adversary doesn't care about what kind of authority you're trying to topple as long as you are opposing authority. Adversary shamans make pretty good Shadowrunners, as long as you're real careful to not make a team leader be a thing! from the description of Harrow, he is committing the one blasphemy before the Adversary. betray, sure. seduce, sure. corrupt, sure. inflict brutal suffering on your enemies? HELL to the sure. live it up? absolutely! but build yourself a throne with the power of the Throne-Breaker, and you go on his "dies screaming" list. that's tapping something old, dark, and horrible, and Adversary shamans don't like that guy any more than the rest of the world does.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:00
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One wonders - If Glory hadn't gotten scooped up and seduced by Harrow and Marta, what totem might she have followed instead?
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Nov 1, 2018 18:40
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wiegieman posted:Then there are Shamans who follow totems like Radiation, Pollution, or Plague. Those guys are just bad news all around. A shaman following a totem that's inherently inimical to metahumanity: Radiation, plague, insects, things like that, are treated as toxic no matter what they're doing.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:14
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If there are shamans of radiation, are there shamans of technology? A Tesla Shaman.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:28
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Siegkrow posted:If there are shamans of radiation, are there shamans of technology? It's not impossible. It might not even be unlikely.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:44
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Stroth posted:A shaman following a totem that's inherently inimical to metahumanity: Radiation, plague, insects, things like that, are treated as toxic no matter what they're doing. See that's boring though. Imagine, if you will, a toxic plague shaman that runs around inoculating people with functionally live vaccines and making some of the finest yogurt in the city. e: VVVVVVVVVVVVVV 
FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 19:49
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Character should have been called Honda.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:32
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