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socialsecurity posted:I would if you were actually interested intead of just a group of you from the "real literature" thread coming in here to poo poo on people for daring to read a different genre . you mean the thread where I am currently having the exact same conversation with a different group of people about the same thing because I am genuinely curious about it?
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Nov 12, 2018 18:49
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Why are people arguing with BotL? He's TBB's supermechagodzilla, that is his entire gimmick, I thought everyone knew that by now.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:58
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SuperMechaGodzilla is a bad poster, though.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:59
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the main difference between sanderson and high literature is that sanderson is actually enjoyable to read wow its fun being contrarian and negative i see why all yall do it
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Nov 12, 2018 19:01
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Sham bam bamina! posted:SuperMechaGodzilla is a bad poster, though. Lamps is just mecha but a lot more aggressive
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Nov 12, 2018 19:06
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Cicero posted:It's subversive compared to the standard trope. It doesn't have to be totally unique or innovative to be subversive. There's nothing inherently rebellious in "subverting tropes," which is a nonsense phrase cooked up by a wiki with an index of Rape Tropes and a list of homoerotic relationships in webcomics. A subversive work would be something that undermines authority instead of inspiring weary resignation about how bad everything is like Abercrombie does. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 20:38
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Can you go back to the Abercrombie thread to debate the subversive nature, or lack thereof?
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Nov 12, 2018 20:41
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Getting back on Sanderson, I remember someone pointing out something along the lines of how the few instances of sex in his books are rape. Is that still true or did he stop being a weirdo?
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Nov 12, 2018 20:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Getting back on Sanderson, I remember someone pointing out something along the lines of how the few instances of sex in his books are rape. Is that still true or did he stop being a weirdo? It's never been true.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:06
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Sham bam bamina! posted:SuperMechaGodzilla is a bad poster, though. Yes, that's correct.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:08
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I don't think I've ever encountered rape in a Sanderson book, which is part of what makes him fun to read. Maybe Tuon and Mat but I think that was still Jordan's writing, pretty sure it's his thing for them anyway.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:09
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The closest you get to rape is the implication that Vin has to be very careful being a girl in a mostly male thieving crew. You never got a scene more elaborate than that thank god.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:11
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Odd how people forget the genocidal rape in Mistborn.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:19
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I just finished mistborn and that doesn’t happen no. Literally the only sex even implied is between the married couple, and it’s implied. Hell characters hardly even kiss in those books.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:I just finished mistborn and that doesn’t happen no. Literally the only sex even implied is between the married couple, and it’s implied. What exactly do you think a "breeding program" entails?
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Nov 12, 2018 21:29
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BOTL: "So, has Sanderson stopped beating his wife?"
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Nov 12, 2018 21:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:What exactly do you think a "breeding program" entails? Oh I thought you meant in a positive light, why didn’t you bring up the fact slaves were raped and was a pretty big plot point. Especially in the first book. That’s actually stated. The breeding programs are more eugenics.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:34
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh I thought you meant in a positive light, why didn’t you bring up the fact slaves were raped and was a pretty big plot point. Especially in the first book. That’s actually stated. The breeding programs are more eugenics. So sex in Sanderson's work is either rape or married chastity. A rather bizarre dichotomy.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:39
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So sex in Sanderson's work is either rape or married chastity. It’s there mostly to serve the plot or world building. Sanderson doesn’t want to indulge in it which makes sense considering he’s Mormon. That’s why I doubt you will ever see a sex or rape scene described.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:It’s there mostly to serve the plot or world building. Sanderson doesn’t want to indulge in it which makes sense considering he’s Mormon. That’s why I doubt you will ever see a sex or rape scene described. He's not arguing in good faith, pull up! Pull up!
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Nov 12, 2018 21:46
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i know this is just botl thinking he's doing a good own, but sex in sanderson's work is mostly offscreen as a general rule - Mistborn era 1 is an exception because it's about overthrowing a society that's spent hundreds of years as a fascist hellscape. by era 2 wayne is definitely having sex with a kandra out of wedlock. dude's come a long way given his religious background. iirc he's mentioned that while he knows normal readers think he's a prude, members of his large mormon fanbase regularly complain about him being too open and having too much sex lol
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Nov 12, 2018 21:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:[Sex] is there mostly to serve the plot or world building. I don't think you realize exactly what a depressing thing this is to say.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:47
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't think you realize exactly what a depressing thing this is to say. Yeah the world sucks, especially slavery which tended to be fairly brutal. Particularly the chattel slavery used here.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:51
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eke out posted:i know this is just botl thinking he's doing a good own, but sex in sanderson's work is mostly offscreen as a general rule - Mistborn era 1 is an exception because it's about overthrowing a society that's spent hundreds of years as a fascist hellscape. You're considering things like 'context' and 'story' not just trying to derail a thread with wild accusations of rape fetishizment against the staunchly Mormon author who barely even mentions sex.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:51
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As an aside Sanderson does a pretty good job of describing slavery, especially it’s more mundane cruelty, which a lot of fiction kind of doesn’t. Usually being lazy and just making the slavers just comically evil.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Yeah the world sucks, especially slavery which tended to be fairly brutal. Particularly the chattel slavery used here.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:58
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Captain Monkey posted:You're considering things like 'context' and 'story' not just trying to derail a thread with wild accusations of rape fetishizment against the staunchly Mormon author who barely even mentions sex. I think it's cool that he's become notably more progressive over time - it's one area where his big team of alpha readers giving feedback has made him markedly better, and I think you can see a lot of that influence in Oathbringer. Especially given the long shadow that regressive, basically pro-fascist mormon scifi people like Orson Scott Card have cast.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:58
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Captain Monkey posted:You're considering things like 'context' and 'story' not just trying to derail a thread with wild accusations of rape fetishizment against the staunchly Mormon author who barely even mentions sex. No one is accusing the author of rape fetishism. What's being criticized is what Charlesthehammer inadvertently observed: Sanderson's fiction is ideally sexless, and rape and consensual sex are equally unspeakable things in it.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:03
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I find it really weird Lamps seems to be arguing he wants described sex scenes in his fiction but I guess a thirsty goon isn’t to shocking.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:I find it really weird Lamps seems to be arguing he wants described sex scenes in his fiction but I guess a thirsty goon isn’t to shocking. in that scene where wayne is too busy loving a weird monster wearing a human body to be involved in a big train shootout, i need more details
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Nov 12, 2018 22:08
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I'm not requesting anything. I'm observing that in Sanderson's fiction, rape and consensual sex are equally shameful things.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:10
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm not requesting anything. I'm observing that in Sanderson's fiction, rape and consensual sex are equally shameful things. No your being critical because he isn’t giving you the details you need. Luckily if you go on Amazon.com their are ton of books to feel your need. Some I think are fantasy. Not my bag but you do you.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:No your being critical because he isn’t giving you the details you need. Luckily if you go on Amazon.com their are ton of books to feel your need. I'm not critical because of a lack of details. I've observed, as others have, that Sanderson treats rape the same as consensual sex. The reason why he's so popular is the same as for other de-eroticized fantasies, like those of Tolkien and Steven Brust: the sexlessness is the show.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm not critical because of a lack of details. I've observed, as others have, that Sanderson treats rape the same as consensual sex. It’s okay man you don’t need to pretend, I’m not judging you. There is a reason your focusing on the sex part so much and not the fact that a lot of details that aren’t focused on and that’s okay. No one is judging you. I hope you find what you need.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:18
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BOTL can you share which Brandon Sanderson character you'd enjoy see bone down the most?
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Nov 12, 2018 22:20
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eke out posted:I think it's cool that he's become notably more progressive over time - it's one area where his big team of alpha readers giving feedback has made him markedly better, and I think you can see a lot of that influence in Oathbringer. Especially given the long shadow that regressive, basically pro-fascist mormon scifi people like Orson Scott Card have cast. I agree! You can tell early on he avoided it due to his discomfort with the topic (ignoring BotL's weird, page spanning desire for Sanderson erotica) and responded to feedback ny improving. He'll always be a little stiff about stuff like drinking and other things that go against his real life values, but he's come a long way, and he writes fun books.
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Nov 12, 2018 23:15
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eke out posted:BOTL can you share which Brandon Sanderson character you'd enjoy see bone down the most?
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Nov 12, 2018 23:29
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bitprophet posted:I hear greatshells have greatsex, C/D? I bet they summon a lot of fuckspren when they do, maybe that will whet BotL's whistle eke out posted:I think it's cool that he's become notably more progressive over time - it's one area where his big team of alpha readers giving feedback has made him markedly better, and I think you can see a lot of that influence in Oathbringer. Especially given the long shadow that regressive, basically pro-fascist mormon scifi people like Orson Scott Card have cast. Captain Monkey posted:I agree! You can tell early on he avoided it due to his discomfort with the topic (ignoring BotL's weird, page spanning desire for Sanderson erotica) and responded to feedback ny improving. He'll always be a little stiff about stuff like drinking and other things that go against his real life values, but he's come a long way, and he writes fun books. Yeah, you still see echoes of his wariness but his characters and willingness to explore things have markedly improved. In TSA you have good, admirable POV characters who go drinking, who curse frequently, who not only think a guy marrying a guy is ok they make fun of a guy for thinking it's scandalous. Some of them are murderers and drug addicts, and even the villains are shown in a compassionate light. There's even a bit of poking fun at indecency mores with how the main culture of the books has a weird obsession with covering up a hand and a fingerless glove is considered racy. Also whoever suggested Defending Elysium after reading Skyward, that was choice. DarkHorse fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 00:49
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm not requesting anything. I'm observing that in Sanderson's fiction, rape and consensual sex are equally shameful things. Not depicting something does not make it shameful. Just not relevant to the story to describe it.
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Nov 13, 2018 03:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm not requesting anything. I'm observing that in Sanderson's fiction, rape and consensual sex are equally shameful things. It's never once presented as shameful, and at many points it's heavily implied. Think a movie showing two characters in a relationship making out, then panning the camera away. The implication is obvious but the act doesn't need to be shown, because I'm watching for characters and a story, not erotica. Like if you're into that, go nuts, but that's not what these books are about. He just doesn't feel the need to actually describe the act of sex, which is good cause tons of scifi and fantasy books feel the need to do that and it's universally cringy and pointless to the characters and the larger story. The point about a breeding program you disengenuously brought up was implemented by a fascist dictator who is the primary villain of the story as a eugenics program, and is very plainly and obviously presented as terrible. Sex is used to further the story in the same way all aspects of humanity are used to further the story. Gender, mental illness, politics, and so forth. I'm not sure why that's a bad concept to you. Equally shameful lol, why am I bothering to reply to a lazy troll
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Nov 13, 2018 05:23
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