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The idea that anime fanservice is some unique thing rather than something literally any visual medium engages in. Hell they were making jokes about it with she hulk in the 80s Also yes you were being disingenuous bu pretending something that happened in a title card for a comedy series happened a lot.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:01
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site posted:well as someone who actually watched the show thats the only time it's used and shockingly it refers to the beach episode so youre wrong there. and it's pretty funny im being called disingenuous by the person blatantly ignoring what im saying about how it's used now and what archy told us about how it was used then to say bluh-bluh look there were boobs in the 60s too You don't understand someone is saying he's wrong is he just supposed to take that?!?
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Nov 13, 2018 02:02
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Wait who said I was wrong. I haven’t seen anyone say anything that contradicts anything ive said.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:The idea that anime fanservice is some unique thing rather than something literally any visual medium engages in. but ive repeatedly stated that that's not what im refering to and you and i both know that you know that. let me put it another way, not seeing a lot of panty shots of teenage girls coming out of the big 2, or the indie pubs for that matter, or in cartoons site fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 02:04
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site posted:but ive repeatedly stated that that's not what im refering to and you and i both know that you know that Your not referring to sexualization? Then what are you referring too?
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Nov 13, 2018 02:07
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yeah, youre clearly not arguing in good faith so im done
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Nov 13, 2018 02:09
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Well take your ball and go home if you want. This has definitely been one of the more frustrating arguments I’ve had.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:14
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Help her do what? You're making the absurd argument that all gratuitously titillating imagery across the entire global history of visual media is equivalent. I think I get what you're saying-- that Western comics fans don't have a lot of moral highground, all things considered, to go around turning their noses up at Japanese media-- and I think it's a point that is well worth making, but you're just incorrect in the finer details. "Fan service" is absolutely a phrase that emerges from and denotes a feature peculiar to manga and anime, and while it did penetrate into US fan discourses throughout the 90s, it for sure 100% has a material history rooted in a specific time and place. While the term describes a bunch of features (some of them, like loving, langorous shots of robots and weapons and stuff, innocuous is tedious), many of which have strong parallels in Western comics and animation (like the tendency to prioritize the adolescent male gaze), it's absolutely a piece of specialized jargon within anime and manga, with a more formalized position within those discourses-- I don't know the dragon thing site mentioned but even in the mid/late 90s Evangelion's next-episode teasers were absolutely saturated with winking invocations of the term. Also-- and I'll be pedantic because this, well, in for a penny in for a pound-- saying that 90% of US comics fans in the 90s were unfamiliar with anime is bonkers. Mainstream distribution exploded later in the decade but within nerd circles there was a very brisk trades in licensed as well as bootleg materials since the 80s. And the fetishistic gaze in Western comics pre-dates the 1960s by decades, going at least as far back as Tijuana Bibles and stuff like Norman Pett's Jane in the 1930s.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:27
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To be fair I never said it originated here I said that was where I first heard it completely independent of anime as my shops didn’t really have that stuf. Literally the only place I saw anime pre internet was on Cartoon Network. If other shops did that’s fine I can only speak to personal experience as a kid so I only saw the one shop. Remember the original argument wasn’t the origins of the phrase but that it was used to describe comics which it was.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:37
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if you want to change the narrative you do you but please dont lie about what i said to do it thx
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Nov 13, 2018 02:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol it was absolutely not used in that way. I doubt 90% of comic book fans even knew what anime was in the early 90s The early 90s was when I was an anime fan. poo poo cartoon Network was showing sailor Moon at the time. Edit:. Columbia House had an anime section in their catalogue and an anime club that sent you one tape a month, I know because I was a member in like '92 Soonmot fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 02:54
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site posted:if you want to change the narrative you do you but please dont lie about what i said to do it thx Who lied about what you said you literally said you never heard it used in that way for western comics. Like here is where you said it if you forgot. I don’t know why you feel the need to lie about something we can look up. site posted:I have never heard the term fanservice used in that context regarding western comics/cartoons Unless your not talking to me?
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Nov 13, 2018 03:04
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CharlestheHammer posted:Who lied about what you said you literally said you never heard it used in that way for western comics. Like here is where you said it if you forgot. I don’t know why you feel the need to lie about something we can look up. you site posted:That perving on girls is such an industry standard that the community has dubbed it fanservice i think is as good an indication as any that the anime industry is not being run by, or really catering to for that matter, the evil sjws site posted:to be clear, im not talking about fan service, as in a playful nod to hardcore fans like deep dives in star trek lore or whatever, i'm specifically talking about "fanservice", no spaces, a term which refers to scenes in which girls (most often under 18) are placed in overtly sexual situations to satisfy the creep customer base. personally ive only ever seen this used in the manga/anime community site posted:ill take your word for it, i wasnt really reading comics in the 90s. but i sure dont see it nowadays, and the flippancy it's thrown around (one reason why i dont venture in adtrw) there's the explicit expectation and acceptance that that is a thing in the anime industry and you just have to deal with it. "well beyond the fanservice" "the fanservice in this episode was great" "this ep was really fanservicey" directly in the title card "this is the fanservice episode" etc site posted:i just saw that title card the other day, kobayashis dragon maid, ep 7 and go into like any thread in adtrw for the rest because i pretty clearly spell out exactly what i mean okay now im done. i got other stuff thats a better use of my time tonght
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Nov 13, 2018 03:19
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So um, were did I lie and change the narrative. That’s a pretty big accusation that your just gonna drop when proven wrong. I would at least like to admit you were mistaken. I am fully aware of what your argument is. You said you were done an I’m respecting that. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 03:22
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If we're talking about the term and not the concept (which has existed since someone drew a really nice butt for no clear reason in a cave painting), I *was* alive and buying comics when the Marvel Swimsuit Issues came out and when the Bad Girl fad took over comics in the late 1990s, and the first time I ever heard the term 'fanservice' specifically for cheesecake/softcore pornography/titilation out of nowhere was definitely from the dude in high school who always wanted everyone to watch anime (actually, JAPANIMATION when asked why there would be like a shower scene in the middle of an otherwise not super sexy anime he was showing everyone. It definitely exists as a marketing/pandering concept globally but the term itself unquestionably comes from anime/manga fandom. Wikipedia backs this up, even though it directly references the two American comic book examples brought up by CTH and not any of the other similarly dirtbaggy things done before/during/after 1991 in comic books, but again, as a comic book fan in 1991 I had never heard the term "fanservice" and was only exposed to it (by an anime dude) in high school circa 1996-7.
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Nov 13, 2018 03:51
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Super researchers of BSS, when did the term "cheesecake" to refer to sexualized art of women come into use in the comics fandom, or just the general world at large? Because that's the word I tend to associate with what anime/manga fans refer to as "fan service".
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Nov 13, 2018 04:40
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Here's a Kickstarter comics anthology dedicated as against hate. Lots of big names, and apparently anything earned will be dedicated to SPLC. https://twitter.com/gregpak/status/1062155654083895296
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Nov 13, 2018 04:43
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Alaois posted:Super researchers of BSS, when did the term "cheesecake" to refer to sexualized art of women come into use in the comics fandom, or just the general world at large? Because that's the word I tend to associate with what anime/manga fans refer to as "fan service".
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Nov 13, 2018 05:02
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FMguru posted:According to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheesecake?s=t?s=t it was the 1930s. Sexy pinup images have been called "cheesecake" for a long long while. There are even older (17th century) references to "cheesecake" as a punning synonym for a "tart" in the sexual sense, which maybe informs the stricter usage we're talking about here, or, you know, could just as easily be coincidence.
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Nov 13, 2018 05:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:Wait who said I was wrong. I haven’t seen anyone say anything that contradicts anything ive said. I guess I’m being overly pedantic too, but since you said you didn’t see anyone pointing out any mistakes in your posts: DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Nah, dude, in the early 90s every comic book store I ever went in was also the only place in town to buy anime and the counter monkeys were constantly trying to push it on customers because it was one of the few things in the store with a decent profit margin (then Magic cards became a thing and they all switched to those instead). I'm old, but not so old that I can't remember that poo poo. Also: Soonmot posted:The early 90s was when I was an anime fan. poo poo cartoon Network was showing sailor Moon at the time. Also: Archyduke posted:Help her do what? You're making the absurd argument that all gratuitously titillating imagery across the entire global history of visual media is equivalent. I think I get what you're saying-- that Western comics fans don't have a lot of moral highground, all things considered, to go around turning their noses up at Japanese media-- and I think it's a point that is well worth making, but you're just incorrect in the finer details. "Fan service" is absolutely a phrase that emerges from and denotes a feature peculiar to manga and anime, and while it did penetrate into US fan discourses throughout the 90s, it for sure 100% has a material history rooted in a specific time and place. (excellent post, here, btw) I can vouch that I got my first exposure to anime via a comic book store in 1991. Comics for Collectors in Ithaca, NY, was already selling anime video tapes and carrying translated manga from Viz and Dark Horse. Eclipse Comics had already been publishing translated manga for Viz for at least three years before I ever read any. i’m not going to get into the other argument, because other posters have made better points than I could ever do. Endless Mike posted:Here's a Kickstarter comics anthology dedicated as against hate. Lots of big names, and apparently anything earned will be dedicated to SPLC. This is great to see.
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Nov 13, 2018 06:13
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When I used the term, I didn't meant to cause such a ruckus. I definitely remember Fanservice being a term used mostly to discribe anime, but could be used interchangeably with Cheesecake in the past, but its certainly come to mean any kind of titillation in drawn media from the way I hear it used mostly now. And the only place I've heard "SJWs are ruining anime!" is when the chuds complain that Hentai isn't being released any more and loli hentai specifically is being cracked down on. They really want their child porn. Seriously, there was some doofus complaining about how SJWs don't understand Japanese culture where sexualizing children is a totally cool and common thing, because their entire exposure to Japanese culture is through anime and video games. They completely missed that Japan is like other normal countries that don't think child porn is a good and acceptable thing, that the Government has actually been cracking down on it's production in the last few years. And I remember what I originally wanted to ask about in this thread, before I got distracted by them being afraid of Kate Leth; what happened with that terrible "Hero" that was a sexy lady covered with stars and bars? I wish i could remember what it was called, but it seemed like it was the other big Alt Right comic book besides Iron Sights and Alt Hero.
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Nov 13, 2018 07:07
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twistedmentat posted:And the only place I've heard "SJWs are ruining anime!" is when the chuds complain that Hentai isn't being released any more and loli hentai specifically is being cracked down on. They really want their child porn. Seriously, there was some doofus complaining about how SJWs don't understand Japanese culture where sexualizing children is a totally cool and common thing, because their entire exposure to Japanese culture is through anime and video games. They completely missed that Japan is like other normal countries that don't think child porn is a good and acceptable thing, that the Government has actually been cracking down on it's production in the last few years. I still see a number of people parroting the "The age of consent in Japan is 13" myth, and more people parroting the more general "The age of consent in Japan is under 18" myth. They're always the same people defending the loli stuff.
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Nov 13, 2018 07:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:So um, were did I lie and change the narrative. That’s a pretty big accusation that your just gonna drop when proven wrong. I would at least like to admit you were mistaken. CharlestheHammer posted:Remember the original argument wasn’t the origins of the phrase but that it was used to describe comics which it was. I suppose i couldve said intentionally saying my argument was something it wasnt but why use so many words to get to the same place twistedmentat posted:And I remember what I originally wanted to ask about in this thread, before I got distracted by them being afraid of Kate Leth; what happened with that terrible "Hero" that was a sexy lady covered with stars and bars? I wish i could remember what it was called, but it seemed like it was the other big Alt Right comic book besides Iron Sights and Alt Hero. I was gonna look this up but i couldnt even remember what it was supposed to be called lol I did look up alt hero though and apparently it started coming out in like july but im guessing it must be aggressively mediocre at best because i never saw anybody even do a takedown of it like iron sights
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Nov 13, 2018 07:50
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Four issues are out, three of which (1, 2 and 4?) are free on Kindle Unlimited but weirdly nowhere on Comixology at all. I just read them, and they're pretty much what you'd expect, if you expected almost no time given to the Confederate Bikini Lady who was the centerpiece of the promotional campaign, and a lot more about some poor misunderstood handsome nationalists getting oppressed by a UN-Backed Evil Justice League in league with ANTIFA. https://twitter.com/kennybloggins/status/1062241503635013633
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Nov 13, 2018 08:19
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Edge & Christian posted:Four issues are out, three of which (1, 2 and 4?) are free on Kindle Unlimited but weirdly nowhere on Comixology at all. My fav part of this sequence of pages is that antifa still comes off as the good guys due to the hack writing.
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Nov 13, 2018 08:38
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It bugs me when liberals and liberal causes use women wearing hijab imagery because their record on war, drone strikes, etc. shows a complete indifference if not outright hostility to the lives of Muslim women around the world. e: not trying to poo poo on this cause directly, just a gripe Insee across twitter and the media hadji murad fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 10:57
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Viridiant posted:I still see a number of people parroting the "The age of consent in Japan is 13" myth, and more people parroting the more general "The age of consent in Japan is under 18" myth. Yea I totally said "so you're going to go to Japan to gently caress a 13 year old?" to someone going on about this. There was a guy posted in an PYF AUG thread years ago that posted about how they were "more into 3 year olds now" and a bunch of cooped LGQBT slogans posted over drawn pictures of adult men and young girls on his blog about being a teacher in Japan and then suddenly, he was fired and deported because of that. Edge & Christian posted:Four issues are out, three of which (1, 2 and 4?) are free on Kindle Unlimited but weirdly nowhere on Comixology at all. If I had no idea what this was from, I'd assume that this was written by a leftist who was writing from a POV of a fascist to attack their beliefs. And Lol it totally straight up admits they are the fascists in there.
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Nov 13, 2018 13:34
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lol they fought against the nazis in ww2, now they fight for the rights of refugees and foreigners EVIL
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Nov 13, 2018 14:26
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site posted:lol they fought against the nazis in ww2, now they fight for the rights of refugees and foreigners The loving monsters.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:49
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Edge & Christian posted:Four issues are out, three of which (1, 2 and 4?) are free on Kindle Unlimited but weirdly nowhere on Comixology at all. Like to point out that they still say that anti-fascists defeated the Nazis. But they say that like it's a bad thing.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:32
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twistedmentat posted:Yea I totally said "so you're going to go to Japan to gently caress a 13 year old?" to someone going on about this. There was a guy posted in an PYF AUG thread years ago that posted about how they were "more into 3 year olds now" and a bunch of cooped LGQBT slogans posted over drawn pictures of adult men and young girls on his blog about being a teacher in Japan and then suddenly, he was fired and deported because of that. I'd like to take this moment to explain how age of consent works in Japan. 13 is the age of consent, but that's just the cutoff point where all actions are illegal. You see, anyone under the age of 20 in Japan is considered a juvenile. As such, they cannot consent to whatever the prefecture defines as obscene or immoral Behavior. Some prefectures only define penetration as obscene or immoral. Some prefectures define holding hands and walking together as obscene or immoral. And this applies to anyone under the age of 20, even if it's with someone else who is under the age of 20. So, someone who is 15 who is dating someone who is 15 can get in trouble for holding hands in some very conservative prefectures, on paper. That never happens, of course, it's just a technicality that no one acts on. Furthermore, parents rights are actually considered as well. If two people under the age of 20 get married without their parents approval, they can actually get in trouble for obducting each other, though usually only the man is ever prosecuted. The punishment is 5 years forced labor. It's actually very complicated, but at the same time isn't. Just like in America, there are weird technicalities like this as well, but if you're both within a reasonable age bracket while a minor it's usually not a problem. So, like how no one bats an eye at a 15 year old and a 16 year old dating. A lot of this is only law on paper and usually only enforced if a police officer is feeling like being a dick. Because even prefectures that have very strict laws on immoral Behavior have tiers to them so that hand holding is a slap on the wrist while penetration is actually a big deal and, if everyone's relatively within the same age, charges are usually dissmissed if they're even brought up. Of course, I'm assuming everything is consensual. The point is, yes age of consent is 13 in Japan, but if you are over 20 and you try to do anything sexual with someone under 20, you will get in trouble. So, if some weabo pedophile is trying to defend himself by saying it's culture, you can explain this to them and watch as they ignore you and continue to be disgusting piece of poo poo as your faith in humanity and diplomacy dwindles. Tl;dr Yes, the age of consent in Japan is 13, but it's illegal to have sex with anyone under the age of 20. Covok fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 15:46
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It really says a lot when Vox Day's scheme for chud money has been more successful and has better production values than D&C's darling. e- twistedmentat posted:If I had no idea what this was from, I'd assume that this was written by a leftist who was writing from a POV of a fascist to attack their beliefs. And Lol it totally straight up admits they are the fascists in there. Vox Day is a pretty open nationalist and enthusiastic fascist, which is why everything he produces comes off more cartoonishly evil. It's also why comicsgate didn't want anything to do with him; they can't pretend to be concerned normal people if he's off to the side calling black people apes and longing for a white ethnostate. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 15:48
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Covok posted:Like to point out that they still say that anti-fascists defeated the Nazis. But they say that like it's a bad thing. Thank god these books aren't political or anything. I have it on good authority political content is what's ruining comics.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:53
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Nuns with Guns posted:It really says a lot when Vox Day's scheme for chud money has been more successful and has better production values than D&C's darling. Now that evs and Dickie have abandoned ship I guess vox is free to move ahead with the comicsgate imprint
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Nov 13, 2018 16:33
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site posted:Now that evs and Dickie have abandoned ship I guess vox is free to move ahead with the comicsgate imprint ComicsGate Comics by Vox Day - comics for the dickless!
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Nov 13, 2018 17:45
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Anyone interested in learning about the small but critical role that this thread's previous incarnation, "The Dark Side of the Comics Industry", played in the current collapse of ComicsGate, here's a link to my Twitter column on the subject: *lovely self promotion removed" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 18:51
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Aren't you that dumbass nobody that came into the last thread telling everybody they were wrong while never actually having an idea of their own
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Nov 13, 2018 18:57
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Yup, they sure were
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Nov 13, 2018 19:00
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I don't know why you came in here to post a twitter thread where you call us a "smug little clique," and also, come on, "Bitch Tits?" Grow up.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:02
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site posted:Aren't you that dumbass nobody that came into the last thread telling everybody they were wrong while never actually having an idea of their own No no no, he had an idea, an amazing idea, a tremendous idea. We were just never WORTHY of hearing it. I heard we got close, though!
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Nov 13, 2018 19:07
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