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Most bad actors are looking to land the whales, but you're also going to have people occasionally going after guppies as well. It's a big deal, because it's very probable that we've only seen the tip of the iceberg, but we're not at the wheel of the ship, so we can do little to avoid it.
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Nov 17, 2018 05:36
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Wait am I the whale or Ahab this is confusing
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Nov 17, 2018 05:43
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Inept posted:Wait am I the whale or Ahab this is confusing Most people looking to utilize Meltdown and Spectre will be going after big targets. But for every datacenter that gets targeted, you have to worry about compromised POS terminals at small businesses, or your grandma clicking on an .exe file that promises "the cutest kitten video ever" before buying more knitting yarn with her Visa card.
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Nov 17, 2018 05:49
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Most people looking to utilize Meltdown and Spectre will be going after big targets. But for every datacenter that gets targeted, you have to worry about compromised POS terminals at small businesses, or your grandma clicking on an .exe file that promises "the cutest kitten video ever" before buying more knitting yarn with her Visa card. And your data and everyone else's floating around on the super servers with no oversight or accountability.
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Nov 17, 2018 05:53
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Just built my 9900k build. Great processor but drat does it run hot if you use prime 95 avx
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Nov 17, 2018 07:08
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Most people looking to utilize Meltdown and Spectre will be going after big targets. Given the way people (and offices) tend to keep computers around for as long as possible (especially in the medical IT world) and how many CPU's were sold with these vulnerabilities AND how lousy people are in general with keeping up with patches/BIOS updates I think this is one of those problems that is going to only get bigger and bigger as time goes on. Assuming that only the "big guys" will be effected engenders a sort of complacency that isn't really sensible in the mid/long term here IMO.
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Nov 17, 2018 07:55
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Rabid Snake posted:Just built my 9900k build. Great processor but drat does it run hot if you use prime 95 avx Got mine stable at 1.152V at the stock all core 4.7 ghz turbo, really helps cut down on the heat. I used to push my CPUs to the limit but I dont think the few hundred mhz is worth the extra heat and noise, for me anyway. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 15:42
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I have to wonder how exploitable these things are outside a controlled environment. I'm not doubting whether it is possible, but the time required to extract the data. If your hope is to have the malicious code land on the logical sibling core than the process you're trying to exploit, and you have to keep micro-timing a lot to sort out the noise and find specific patterns, you're in for a long time on a busy system (given that threads will be core hopping a lot on a busy system). So I wonder how much an end user is going to be affected by this, assuming they regularly shut down the system.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:30
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Combat Pretzel posted:So I wonder how much an end user is going to be affected by this, assuming they regularly shut down the system. A random home end-user is unlikely to be impacted by this anytime in the near future. These attacks are very much aimed at large server environments and persistent state actors, who have the time and resources to sit and wait and sift through whatever data they're pulling to find what they want. Unfortunately, it's also server workloads which suffer the most from the fixes.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:29
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Most people looking to utilize Meltdown and Spectre will be going after big targets. But for every datacenter that gets targeted, you have to worry about compromised POS terminals at small businesses, or your grandma clicking on an .exe file that promises "the cutest kitten video ever" before buying more knitting yarn with her Visa card. You seem to be missing that when you convince grandma to click kitten.exe, she authorized UAC on it like she does on every other program and then the malware already has root. And then it doesn't have any need to use meltdown or spectre to attempt to grab snatches of stuff only visible by a root user.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:31
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you could always ask the sec thread.. the pocs for these sidechannel attacks generally include an ec2 example. that should give you an idea of how feasible the concept is the latest research reinforces that the situation is worse than everyone wants it to be, and that current defences have more shortcomings than is desired. on the plus side the most likely attack surface - your web browser - has been promoting the most effective countermeasures. the downside is that users complain about ram usage so go for the trendy browser of the week and don't listen to anyone advising against that, so they're hosed
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Nov 18, 2018 03:09
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Don't run a system with under 8GB of RAM and you'll be ok, anyhow. RAM prices are finally starting to come back down, too, so 8/16 isn't crazy.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:32
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I just got a computer and a 4K monitor from a bankruptcy auction for $100. It came with a 6700K. I'm planning on using it for gaming so I'm also going to get a 1080Ti and upgrade the PSU. Should I keep the 6700K, swap it out for a 7700K, or replace the mobo and CPU for something like a 9700K or even a 9900K? I only have $100 into this and it's a really nice system so I don't mind spending a bit of money on it. - 64 GB RAM - 512 GB M.2 - 4 x 500 GB SSDs Mr. Apollo fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 04:35
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Mr. Apollo posted:I just got a computer and a 4K monitor from a bankruptcy auction for $100. It came with a 6600K. I'm planning on using it for gaming so I'm also going to get a 1080Ti and upgrade the PSU. I'd keep the proc you have; a 6600 is nearly as fast as the 7700, and CPU prices just went up. A lot of games won't make use of the extra cores, and for single threaded apps and games the 9x chips may actually be slower. So you'd pay a significant premium for no real benefit.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:48
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Broken Machine posted:I'd keep the proc you have; a 6600 is nearly as fast as the 7700, and CPU prices just went up. A lot of games won't make use of the extra cores, and for single threaded apps and games the 9x chips may actually be slower. So you'd pay a significant premium for no real benefit.  I realize a made a typo, the computer came with a 6700K, not a 6600K.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:02
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Even better, 4c/8t is a lot better than 4c/4t at this point. You got an insanely good deal and your plans make perfect sense.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:31
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Mr. Apollo posted:I just got a computer and a 4K monitor from a bankruptcy auction for $100. It came with a 6700K. I'm planning on using it for gaming so I'm also going to get a 1080Ti and upgrade the PSU. I think if you overclock the 6700k you are good for the foreseeable future, but I'm not 100% on that generation
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Nov 18, 2018 06:30
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At 4k the difference between 6700k and later i7s is virtually nil, the bottleneck at that resolution is GPU-related. To put things in perspective as well, for gaming at all resolutions, the 6700k is still just as fast as the Ryzen 7 2700x. Don't knock it. It's old but it's still a very fast CPU. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IistubvBOT8
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Nov 18, 2018 10:15
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This is great info, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks everyone. Looks like I’ll stick to my original plan of upgrading the PSU and GPU.
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Nov 18, 2018 19:19
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Buildzoid just went over the Aorus Master Z390 board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J7qnr0YNH8 The VRM situation did not get a very glowing recommendation from him, but he still calls it the best 'regular build' Z390 board he's seen, and Newegg has it for $240 after rebate at the moment. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 10:16
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I finally built my 9900k system over the weekend and I lost the silicon lottery again, can't do 5GHz on all cores, 4.8 is stable and 4.9 probably is too once I do some more testing.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:54
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Did you mess with LLC at all?
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Nov 19, 2018 16:54
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Yep tried all the llc settings and pushed the voltage all the way to 1.39v, silicon lottery reports only 46% of 9900k can hit 5GHz.
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Nov 19, 2018 17:20
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Those numbers from silicon lottery really surprises me because that's 5 GHz with an AXV offset of 2. I have mine at 1.28 V and 5 GHz all core with no offset. I was at 1.27 but I turned on prime and walked away for a couple hours and came back to a blue screen, and that little bump fixed it. The other couple people I know also have theirs at 5 GHz all core with no offset, though they're in the low 1.3 V.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:31
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I run 4.9 with no offset on a delidded 8700K at 1.34v (keep in mind though that software voltage readings are not entirely reliable and I think at least on Asus boards they changed how it's reported between Z370 and Z390). What I did find though was that my chip seems quite temperature sensitive, at least when running AVX benchmarks. Small sample size and some risk of confirmation bias but when I was playing around with it last time, it seemed to be significantly more stable if kept under 75-ish C. I started running all of my super heavy AVX benchmarks (OCCT small dataset, p95) at 100% fan speed on everything because of that - they're a highly unrealistic load anyway.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:58
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The build quality on this Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Pro I just installed is amazing. I spent a lot of time feeling up and smelling the board. Its just that good no wonder its been stated as best value. The Bios isnt really all bad? Have to wait on the 9700k still to put the 12+1 vrm to test.
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Nov 19, 2018 21:57
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Please don't gently caress your consumer electronics
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Nov 19, 2018 22:07
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I do what I want.
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Nov 19, 2018 22:10
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Green Gloves posted:The Bios isnt really all bad? Have to wait on the 9700k still to put the 12+1 vrm to test. It's not bad really, they give you all the knobs and dials, it's just got wonky UI elements (select the numeric setting you want from this list of 2000 numbers in increments of 0.01) and a really confusing menu layout. At least if you're coming from ASUS - which, granted, is far from perfect, but they're far better than Gigabyte at putting the options in a mostly logical menu system and briefly explaining what they do and what the defaults are.
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Nov 19, 2018 22:10
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Seriously about to do it to pics of my build 🤫 dont tell my gf
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Nov 19, 2018 22:12
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TheFluff posted:It's not bad really, they give you all the knobs and dials, it's just got wonky UI elements (select the numeric setting you want from this list of 2000 numbers in increments of 0.01) and a really confusing menu layout. At least if you're coming from ASUS - which, granted, is far from perfect, but they're far better than Gigabyte at putting the options in a mostly logical menu system and briefly explaining what they do and what the defaults are. Gigabyte did out out a z390 overclocking manual so that definitely helps out a bunch. I highly recommend that for anyone being confused with the wonkiness.
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Nov 19, 2018 22:14
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Green Gloves posted:The Bios isnt really all bad? Have to wait on the 9700k still to put the 12+1 vrm to test. The F4 BIOS was evidently terrible. The F5 is supposedly much better.
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Nov 19, 2018 22:26
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Mr. Apollo posted:I just got a computer and a 4K monitor from a bankruptcy auction for $100. It came with a 6700K. I'm planning on using it for gaming so I'm also going to get a 1080Ti and upgrade the PSU. I'm gonna dissent from everyone and say shoot for an 8700K. We're very much past the days of quad cores being optimal for gaming and BFV is making oldish i5s poo poo the bed. You have 8 threads which helps but I feel like six physical cores would be better
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Nov 19, 2018 23:36
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TheFluff posted:It's not bad really, they give you all the knobs and dials, it's just got wonky UI elements (select the numeric setting you want from this list of 2000 numbers in increments of 0.01) and a really confusing menu layout. At least if you're coming from ASUS - which, granted, is far from perfect, but they're far better than Gigabyte at putting the options in a mostly logical menu system and briefly explaining what they do and what the defaults are. You can always simply type in the value, no need to select from the list.
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Nov 19, 2018 23:49
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:Please don't gently caress your consumer electronics What are you, my warranty?
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Nov 20, 2018 00:37
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mewse posted:I think if you overclock the 6700k you are good for the foreseeable future, but I'm not 100% on that generation I don’t know about the Division 2, Dying Lights 2 or the next Metro Game (Exodus) or Just Cause 4, but the Battlefield V thread already delivers strong indications and fps results that quadcores might be serious bottlenecks in the future.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:02
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Mr.PayDay posted:I don’t know about the Division 2, Dying Lights 2 or the next Metro Game (Exodus) or Just Cause 4, but the Battlefield V thread already delivers strong indications and fps results that quadcores might be serious bottlenecks in the future. I can’t actually find hard evidence of that for BF5 at 1440p or above. The posts I’ve seen lacked good evidence and some web benchmarks showed no difference between similar 4/6 cores results. Do you have a detailed report?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:56
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Just bought a 9700K on eBay due to the PICKFAST sale. Still need a board and RAM, but I figured I won't get the CPU much cheaper than this so might as well get that out of the way. Guess I won't be able to put off this build much longer. Going to try recouping some of the costs by selling my 2600K and Z68 board since I hear people are still paying more than they should for these parts.
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Nov 21, 2018 21:21
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pmchem posted:I can’t actually find hard evidence of that for BF5 at 1440p or above. The posts I’ve seen lacked good evidence and some web benchmarks showed no difference between similar 4/6 cores results. Do you have a detailed report? Here's my own: my 6600K at 4.7ghz absolutely cannot hold 60fps on some maps. It hits 100% on all cores and chokes to 45-50fps especially on Narvik, Fjell and Rotterdam chokepoints. This is on high at 4k with a 1080ti. 64 player conquest is out of the question if you want locked 60fps with 4 threads. It NEEDS more than 4 threads.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:12
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Here's my own: my 6600K at 4.7ghz absolutely cannot hold 60fps on some maps. It hits 100% on all cores and chokes to 45-50fps especially on Narvik, Fjell and Rotterdam chokepoints. This is on high at 4k with a 1080ti. Meanwhile my 6600K at 4.5GHz with a 1080ti at 3440x1440 at a mix of high and ultra Average framerate : 94.0 FPS Minimum framerate : 59.9 FPS Maximum framerate : 118.0 FPS Fjell on 64 player conquest, 5 minutes of gameplay, benchmark run through Afterburner
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Nov 22, 2018 00:22
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