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If it’s either a sabbatical or a leave of absence, you retain employment with your old company and go back to work for them upon your return. That’s the defining feature of those terms. You’re talking about quitting your job and searching for a new one in 6 months. Those aren’t at all the same thing. In academia people take sabbaticals as a matter of course. They usually use them to write a book. It’s literally never a bad thing because they’re still a professor of whatever at their institution while they’re on sabbatical.
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Nov 25, 2018 03:18
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Achmed Jones posted:In academia people take sabbaticals as a matter of course. They usually use them to write a book. It’s literally never a bad thing because they’re still a professor of whatever at their institution while they’re on sabbatical. Except if the startup takes off they often don’t come back. Adios, Peter Bailis.
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Nov 25, 2018 03:22
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Achmed Jones posted:If it’s either a sabbatical or a leave of absence, you retain employment with your old company and go back to work for them upon your return. That’s the defining feature of those terms. You’re talking about quitting your job and searching for a new one in 6 months. Those aren’t at all the same thing. Yeah, I'm aware of the difference. It's not unheard of for people at my org to be granted extended leave (outside of parental leave) and I've also spoken with those who were offered it when handing in their notice. I haven't spoken to my manager about this so for my benefit, assume that this won't be the case for me and I'll actually be unemployed.
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Nov 25, 2018 03:24
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I did a "work break" relatively early in my career (after 3-4 years), and I think one of the things that was a help when I went back to the labor force was being able to point at the personal projects I'd been working on in the interim. I definitely wouldn't advise going completely idle when you aren't employed. Write software of some kind, preferably something you can make open-source. I worked on a videogame, and while I didn't end up completing it I had a lot of code, assets, blog posts, etc. to point to. Generally speaking, my impression is that most interviewers don't really care if you were employed or not; they care why you were employed or not. Not being employed is a potential sign of a douchebag, layabout, etc. that they won't want to have on their team. If you have a good explanation, though, then you're fine. The big question is if you can get past the recruiters / automated resume screeners; if they have a "must be continuously employed for the last X years" condition then you're limiting your potential employment space by taking a work break. But whether such a filter exists depends in part on how heavily-contested the market is for someone with your skillset, which we can't really judge for you.
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Nov 25, 2018 03:28
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I just finished doing this - I quit work, traveled for several months, then came back and found a job. Yeah, there’s basically two things you need: a good reason for leaving, and something programming-related you can point to that you did in that time. The first is pretty fudgeable (give generic answers of career growth, not feeling challenged). The second is less so, but it doesn’t need to be big (e.g. studying a technology or related field). Something substantial but not programming-related would also probably work. If you’re very lazy, delete and recommit a previous project of yours.
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Nov 25, 2018 04:28
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I did a "work break" relatively early in my career (after 3-4 years), and I think one of the things that was a help when I went back to the labor force was being able to point at the personal projects I'd been working on in the interim. I definitely wouldn't advise going completely idle when you aren't employed. Write software of some kind, preferably something you can make open-source. I worked on a videogame, and while I didn't end up completing it I had a lot of code, assets, blog posts, etc. to point to. I took a 6 month funemployment early in my career. I ended up landing in a position relatively equal to the one I left, but you gotta be prepared to a.) accept you'll be bargaining from a weaker place than if you were employed and b.) the point at which you want to be working and the point at which point you'll be hired are going to probably be a couple of months apart, which can honestly be tough to deal with. But I also think extended breaks are great and if you want to take one, you should go for it. You might have to shovel some poo poo to get back into the market to start with, but if you're savvy and competent it'll work out in the end.
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Nov 25, 2018 04:29
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Xik posted:Anyone in the thread willing to share their experience and/or advice regarding taking a sabbatical/extended leave or an unemployment "gap"? My current title is the equivalent of "Intermediate Software Developer" and I'd liking be applying for the same title after a ~6-8 month period of unemployment. I don't think "My wife and I wanted to get a Dog" will hold up well in an interview. If I was looking to hire someone, I'd pass over the dude that quits the job to get a pet (there would be a good chance that employee would quit should he decide to have a child). So uh, think about how you'll spin that when you go back on to the market. Also why do you need to quit your job to get a dog?
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Nov 25, 2018 14:14
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Careful Drums posted:why do you need to quit your job to get a dog? My first thought, too.
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Nov 25, 2018 15:06
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Careful Drums posted:Also why do you need to quit your job to get a dog? Why would you leave a puppy alone all day?
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Nov 25, 2018 17:32
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fritz posted:Why would you leave a puppy alone all day? as an overpaid stem worker, my puppy goes to daycare when i'm at work
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Nov 25, 2018 17:47
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Work remotely, of course. It's superior in every way.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:50
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rt4 posted:Work remotely, of course. It's superior in every way. Then you can be like my co-worker. "Thanks for joining this call, it's important that we all coordin-*WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF*-sorry, the dog thinks I'm the mailman. what was I saying? Oh yeah, coordinate our efforts over the next few weeks to make sure we can deli-*WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF* *wailing child*" And so on.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:36
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That's exactly what I'm like, actually
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Nov 25, 2018 18:52
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Careful Drums posted:I don't think "My wife and I wanted to get a Dog" will hold up well in an interview. Yeah, this is understandable. I wasn't going to start posting all my personal details but I guess I am soliciting advice so... The ordered reasons are closer to:
Sounds like the most important thing would be that I need to come up with something reasonable to advise interviewer/recruiter in the future. rt4 posted:Work remotely, of course. It's superior in every way. Up until recently I was three days remote, two days in office. My team lead that enabled that recently left so that little perk has dried up, even though I was measurably more productive remotely. E: Also re having something to show, my day job involves heavy usage of some large open source libraries in the .NET space and was planning to attempt contributing to some of them. Xik fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 19:18
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Xik posted:Up until recently I was three days remote, two days in office. My team lead that enabled that recently left so that little perk has dried up, even though I was measurably more productive remotely. you might be able to negotiate full remote - i had a six month stretch where i just went full remote until my mental health issues calmed down enough for me to deal with people and that worked wonders, but it's something you'd have to ask for.
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Nov 25, 2018 19:48
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Xik posted:
"I was needed to help take care of my grandfather" is absolutely a good reason to take time off from work. The only people that will quibble with that are dipshits and you don't want to work for/with them anyway. Needing to be able to work remotely is a separate thing that you can negotiate as part of the interview process. You don't need to bring it up when they ask why you took time off.
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Nov 25, 2018 20:01
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I'd hire someone who took a break to get a dog. I'm gonna start asking in interviews if they've ever quit their job to get a dog and if they say yes that's it, they are hired
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Nov 25, 2018 20:19
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You might have a ruff time selecting the right candidates with that method
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Nov 25, 2018 21:43
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Seconding "break to take care of a sick relative" is a lot more understandable than "break to get a dog".
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Nov 25, 2018 22:58
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For me putting the dog as the primary reason would be a warning sign in a way that 'sick relative' or 'personal health reasons' wouldn't, because presented entirely by itself it seems like some bizarre lack of planning ability (why not just use some vacation time on that?) and/or an indicator that the person applying would suddenly quit at a random time for abstruse reasons.
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Nov 26, 2018 00:28
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rt4 posted:You might have a ruff time selecting the right candidates with that method There is nothing wrong with having a paws in your career.
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Nov 26, 2018 06:21
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I totally regret mentioning the dog. But seriously thanks everyone for the advice so far. I was also interrogating some contractors at work today about their experiences with gaps (intentional or otherwise) and got some good advice.
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Nov 26, 2018 08:39
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Post pictures of the dog when you get it
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Nov 26, 2018 14:46
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Careful Drums posted:there would be a good chance that employee would quit should he decide to have a child What a monster.
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Nov 26, 2018 21:15
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Jaded Burnout posted:What a monster. please note that i'm not defending that logic as an employer. it's illegal for employers to ask but i go out of my way to mention my kids in interviews because if an employer wants to filter me out based on child-having-status then i, too, definitely don't want to work for that employer if at all possible.
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Nov 26, 2018 22:19
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Careful Drums posted:please note that i'm not defending that logic as an employer. it's illegal for employers to ask but i go out of my way to mention my kids in interviews because if an employer wants to filter me out based on child-having-status then i, too, definitely don't want to work for that employer if at all possible. Heh, I do this for the same reason.
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Nov 27, 2018 11:27
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Howdy, so I'm pretty sure I don't want to be a web app developer anymore. I'm not sure what I want to do instead but I'm working on figuring that out. Has anyone here pivoted to something else from development successfully, especially within the same organization? How did you figure out what you wanted to do next and did it end up making you happier?
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Nov 29, 2018 20:51
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IME most interviewers don't really care about the specifics of your past work history, so long as you aren't ridiculously pigeonholed in terms of capabilities/technologies. Like, if you only list two programming languages and HTML/CSS on your resume, that might be a problem, but someone with a decent breadth of experience should be able to apply to any generalist dev job. And that's what I'd recommend: go for a generalist position. Someone who needs a quant or a firmware developer is going to be a lot pickier about who they accept, compared to someone who needs a mid-tier software engineer who can turn requirements into code with minimal oversight. I don't have any particular advice on transferring in-org though.
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Nov 29, 2018 21:06
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Knowing what you want to do, being excited about it, and doing some exploration in your spare time would be worth a lot if I was interviewing you.
taqueso fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 21:32
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I've never been able to successfully pivot at the same organization. I'd say it's time to explore and figure out what will keep you excited for the next gig. Over the last ten years I've gone from help desk -> QA -> ruby web dev -> python data dev -> iOS dev -> director of engineering (really just iOS and DevOps). Just work on side projects for what you'd like to get into next and blast out 150 resumes a week. Make interviewing your new job, you'll get to see what's out there and it'll give you idea on things to work towards that everyone is pining for. Try to take the pressure off of interviewing by doing so many and turning it into a numbers game. Try to find a culture that works for you. It seem like sometimes it's not the stack but the culture that sucks.
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Nov 29, 2018 23:00
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taqueso posted:Knowing what you want to do, being excited about it, and doing some exploration in your spare time would be worth a lot if I was interviewing you. This actually landed me my current role. Also recognizing your actual level and experience helps. (I am at most a medior but I really love what I am doing and have some people skills)
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Nov 29, 2018 23:55
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What's the "minimum raise" you guys would accept for a new job? I've been at my current place for 3.5 years. Great coworkers, great benefits, fair pay but I think it's time I move on. Emailed a recruiter who emailed me a week ago and she was curious about salary stuff. I currently make $65K but total compensation is probably closer to $80K (I live in a poor region), so I told her I'd be looking to make at least that much, which is a 20-25% raise or so. No idea if I'm undercutting myself or what. I got rid job when I had about 3 years of experience, now I've got 6 
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Dec 10, 2018 21:30
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Sab669 posted:What's the "minimum raise" you guys would accept for a new job? Depends if you’re trying to leave as means of promotion or not. Prevailing market rate + N%
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Dec 10, 2018 22:03
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Sab669 posted:What's the "minimum raise" you guys would accept for a new job? You made a mistake by telling the recruiter how much you wanted. They have zero incentive to fight to get you more money versus placing you as quickly as possible in order to get their 10/20% cut and moving on to the next person. An extra 5/10/20k a year potentially makes a ton of difference to you, but a recruiter won't fight for it even if they could probably make it happen, because it may delay placing you or (god forbid) result in the gig falling through, meaning they have to invest more work into placing you. If a recruiter can place you at 80k with 10 hours of effort and make 8k or place you at 100k with 50 hours of effort and make 10k, they'll pick the 8k in 10 hours.
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Dec 10, 2018 22:50
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:You made a mistake by telling the recruiter how much you wanted. They have zero incentive to fight to get you more money versus placing you as quickly as possible in order to get their 10/20% cut and moving on to the next person. An extra 5/10/20k a year potentially makes a ton of difference to you, but a recruiter won't fight for it even if they could probably make it happen, because it may delay placing you or (god forbid) result in the gig falling through, meaning they have to invest more work into placing you. How would not telling the recruiter make the situation any better? Wouldn't he then get interviewed for <80k jobs, which would waste both his and recruiter's time?
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Dec 10, 2018 23:19
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Doctor Malaver posted:How would not telling the recruiter make the situation any better? Wouldn't he then get interviewed for <80k jobs, which would waste both his and recruiter's time? You request that the recruiter provide a salary range along with a job description prior to scheduling you for an interview. If you don't like the salary, pass on the interview.
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Dec 10, 2018 23:40
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:You request that the recruiter provide a salary range along with a job description prior to scheduling you for an interview. If you don't like the salary, pass on the interview. Yeah. I've had success with telling the recruiter "I'm flexible on salary depending on certain factors. You must know their budget for this position." Most of the time they just tell me the employers range at this point, then you get to say "I'd be looking at the high end of that range" whatever it is.
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Dec 10, 2018 23:48
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leper khan posted:Depends if you’re trying to leave as means of promotion or not. Always shoot for 25%+ raise + any potential signing bonus to offset lost yearly bonuses.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:19
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Not necessarily looking for a "promotion"; my current title is "Programmer/Analyst". The job description the recruiter forwarded me doesn't have a title attached, but looking at the company's actual website it looks like it'd be ".NET Engineer/Developer" so it sounds like it's pretty lateral (which I'm OK with). You're definitely right, New Yorp New Yorp, that I should've asked for an array of postings and roughly what they pay each. She flat out said on the phone something to the effect of "This company typically pays anywhere from 70-90 so I could put you in at 80". Maybe when I email her my resume I'll just say, "Hey I did some rough estimating based on taxes and such and I'd actually need X, contrary to what I said earlier"? Good idea about asking for a sign on bonus, Doh004, because my company doesn't do Annual Raises/Bonuses until February.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:40
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You probably already lost the chance to negotiate higher but it can’t hurt. Even if they say “The range is x to y” you can still ask for more than y, or for additional benefits.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:42
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