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PittTheElder posted:I actually have given up on the Titans, they draw a lot of fire but take too long to replace. Just double afterburner Cruisers for me now. Same, they soak up all the hits, die, and then aren't replaced until the end of the war due to their slow speeds and extreme build time. That and they'll auto-route through a bunch of enemy fleets and get destroyed on the way to join up with its own fleet. For ship building and specially upgrades I wish unused shipyard slots would aid any in use. So that titan taking forever to build at a 5-shipyard system or that huge fleet that needs a slow refit could actually tie up the whole station and speed that poo poo up.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:59
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Most of the people in Starship Troopers do a few years of a civil service job, not military service. There just happens to be a serious war on at the time of the book.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:03
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It's worth noting, though, that the source material may not actually have the best handle on the implications of its ideas. Certainly lacking political power makes it easier to be legislated into a servitude role. You could even see a military nobility forming by making actually getting the right to serve onerous unless you have the right (i.e. family) connections. This is probably what an Authoritarian Citizen Stratocracy looks like imo.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:12
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PittTheElder posted:I actually have given up on the Titans, they draw a lot of fire but take too long to replace. Just double afterburner Cruisers for me now. This reminds me how I wish ship design was more interesting than "you have x slots and only one of two (or three if you are lucky) things to put in them (armor/shields/hull)". I want to be able to sacrifice armor or shields for the ability to mount another gun or go faster. Instead every ship in the game is practically the same except for weapon module size/type.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:15
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Vavrek posted:That's the life Juan walked away from to sign up: Its been a while since I watched the movie, and longer since I read the book (can't even really recall much except that poo poo was a lot different). I don't recall it out in front like my example question, but look at WW1 history in Britain. In order to boost recruitment numbers they created a 'white feather' organization where young women would basically publicly shame men who weren't in uniform. This was effective enough that state industries started giving their employees badges basically saying they were contributing to the war effort. Now flip back and consider all the pressures about getting citizenship and doing your part and that is sort of what I think the bridge between starship troopers, stellaris, and citizen service is. There might be some interesting thought space looking at how the Russians basically broke apart completely, and how if they were fighting crazy alien bugs instead of just people the state might have managed to morph into some combo of a constitutional monarchy and citizen service. Kaal posted:Maybe in the film treatment, but in Heinlein's vision it was pretty clear that military service was seen by most civilians as a foolish and impractical path, which offered a pretty minor political benefit in exchange for a massive commitment. People who wanted to go into politics would typically find other ways of becoming citizens. Rico's father, himself a rich white dude, talked about this at length when he tried to dissuade him from joining up. And when Rico went on leave, the majority of residents didn't have much appreciation for the soldiers. Rico's dad eventually enlists, but it's because he wants to "become a proud man like his son", not because it will lead to a better status than wealthy capitalist. Like I said earlier, it has been a long time since I read the book. The way such a society works in a more peace time would be a lot different from during a huge war for sure. If they suddenly need a lot more troops, they can look at closing those non-military paths to people without connections. They can take steps to shape public opinion, and make laws to help push certain people towards service. For example, in the US military the amount of people who come from a poor, immigrant, or second generation american family is really high (at least for enlisted).
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Dec 3, 2018 21:30
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GunnerJ posted:It's worth noting, though, that the source material may not actually have the best handle on the implications of its ideas. Certainly lacking political power makes it easier to be legislated into a servitude role. You could even see a military nobility forming by making actually getting the right to serve onerous unless you have the right (i.e. family) connections. This is probably what an Authoritarian Citizen Stratocracy looks like imo. Oh, absolutely. Heinlein was definitely writing from the assumption that Pure American Republican Virtue would prevent that, but let's be realistic about how much people suck.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:42
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Yeah, there's a big difference between What The Book Says and How Would It Actually Go. I'm just a pedant with an ebook for easy quoting. Speaking of,Kaal posted:Rico's father, himself a rich white dude,
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Dec 3, 2018 21:48
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I'm looking forward to trying this on Thursday 
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Dec 3, 2018 21:51
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Vavrek posted:A rich white dude whose son is named Juanito Rico and speaks Tagalog as his native tongue? *Looks over at Latin America and South America having an upper class decended from European land owners* sounds legit
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Dec 3, 2018 21:55
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wiegieman posted:Oh, absolutely. Heinlein was definitely writing from the assumption that Pure American Republican Virtue would prevent that, but let's be realistic about how much people suck. I mean didn't he write it as a children's novel, and in a white heat of rage at the implementation of a nuclear test ban treaty? Pretty sure I read that somewhere.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:11
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Been watching streams and holy crap this looks better than I expected. Super hyped to play. The new planet management looks super flavorful and complex. Probably going to play a technoslave megacorp, if that is possible. Wiz and co just crushing it with this game.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:12
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Can somebody link that dev clash video where Wiz is mocking the players for not building fleets?
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Dec 3, 2018 22:21
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Can we just have a voicepack dlc that's just wiz mocking you every time you gently caress up.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:23
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ZypherIM posted:While saying they're slaves is maybe too much, they're definitely second class citizens who are looked down on by society. I'm pretty sure a lot of people in our world who get treated in similar ways would jump on a hypothetical situation of "if serving in the space navy got you automatically treated like a rich white dude, would you sign up?" I'd fuckin do it and I'm unlikely to get spontaneously cop murdered at any particular time. If the status you get from military service is good enough it's for sure worth risking your life, unless you have moral compunctions against what's going on.
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Dec 3, 2018 22:25
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GunnerJ posted:I mean didn't he write it as a children's novel, and in a white heat of rage at the implementation of a nuclear test ban treaty? Pretty sure I read that somewhere. Sort of. It has a lot of stylistic similarities to his YA novels, which is mostly what he'd been writing for the previous ten years, but aged up to match the older protagonist (18-20, rather than 15-17, or younger). I've read that it and Podkayne of Mars were originally conceived as YA books, and I can see it, but only as an origin—they're both clearly more adult-oriented in comparison to his set of YA novels, they just focus on someone only at the cusp of adulthood. It's about 50% longer and more consistently serious (i.e. lacking in light and fun moments). Looking at the source for the "wrote Starship Troopers in a white-hot fury" line, it says this was prompted by the Soviets continuing their nuclear testing after Eisenhower suspended US testing. A sort of "See! They're not going to keep promises!" moment, confirming why he was opposed to the ban. Here's the weird thing, since I keep talking about the book and vaguely defending it: Having read all his other books, Starship Troopers is really kind of middling. There's so many other Heinlein books that I'd recommend ahead of it that I only really direct people to it on account of its fame (or, in the case of one friend, because he was joining the US Army). Agean90 posted:*Looks over at Latin America and South America having an upper class decended from European land owners* sounds legit edit: VVV eh, he was going in as an officer, so it was kind of a "They'll expect you to have read this." gift (I had a spare copy). Haven't read Forever War yet, but I've heard good things. It's on my list. Vavrek fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 23:01
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Shoulda recommended Forever War instead
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Dec 3, 2018 23:02
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Am firmly of the opinion that Starship Troopers is best read as preparation/context for reading Forever War and Armor.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:14
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Agean90 posted:when u go thru hyperspace lanes you get attacked by space demons. living creatures can resist this easily but robuts, being soulless abominations, get possesed and turned into killing machines I don’t know if this is an Event Horizon or Doom reference. Or both. dialhforhero fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 23:24
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Interesting. I may have them in the fleets to soak hits and draw fire and then just not replace them until the war is over. Or have them in a separate fleet that lags half a system behind then merge them once they arrive so they share their bonuses.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:25
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Has anyone seen one of the early access people making good use of the criminal syndicate system? I'm watching Shenryyr and he's run into two problems. First, there's a lot of empires that you can't establish a branch office with at all: gestalts, purifiers, fallen empires, marauders, other megacorps. His first game had him not find a valid branch office target until he'd been playing for 4 hours or so. Second, his branch offices were getting discovered and shut down very quickly. He would pay something like 1-2k energy for a branch office that made 20-30 energy per month, and I'd be surprised if more often than not, they failed to turn a profit before getting removed. Bonus third problem: There should be a map mode that shows planets and their branch office slot (either unoccupied or what corp has a branch there). I saw Scott Manley's stream where he basically crippled the first empire he found with crime, but based on Shenryyr's game I wonder if Scott's neighbor just didn't have the tech to build a police station yet or something.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:27
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Agean90 posted:Shoulda recommended Forever War instead All Heinlein is bigoted jingoist trash so yes Forever War is unquestionably the better suggestion
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Dec 3, 2018 23:27
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Bedurndurn posted:Has anyone seen one of the early access people making good use of the criminal syndicate system? I'm watching Shenryyr and he's run into two problems. Haven't been checking streams myself, but on the subject of lack of branch office targets: two of those are explicitly neutral factions (FE and marauders), and two are generally non-interactable (gestalts and purifiers). FE rightly should tell you to gently caress off, and you should invision marauders as space mongols (you're not setting up a walmart in the middle of the steppe during the horde days). Purifiers would kill you right out. I'm not sure how you'd infiltrate a gestalt ever. Then you're left with other megacorps, who would be ready for your bullshit. If you're worried about it, just make sure you've got a good mix of valid targets set to force spawn.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:34
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GunnerJ posted:Am firmly of the opinion that Starship Troopers is best read as preparation/context for reading Forever War and Armor. Wiz pls, give us army type "The Engine" that is immune to morale damage tia
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Dec 3, 2018 23:34
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Squiggle posted:All Heinlein is bigoted jingoist trash so yes Forever War is unquestionably the better suggestion That's not remotely true or fair. Post-stroke it's all pantheistic solipsism and rants about wanting to gently caress his own mother.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:35
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chairface posted:That's not remotely true or fair. Post-stroke it's all pantheistic solipsism and rants about wanting to gently caress his own mother.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:41
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Vavrek posted:A rich white dude whose son is named Juanito Rico and speaks Tagalog as his native tongue? Yep, pretty much. Though probably not like in the film, where he's a total WASP. He's likely white as in a family that has fully assimilated into the American white majority culture, and society doesn't discriminate against based on appearance. Maybe this is because of a less racist society, or one at least where a Spanish or Polynesian ethnic heritage goes without prejudice. While there's a small mention of his Filipino heritage and traditions, Rico's race is emphatically not a part of his character.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:41
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Suddenly OK with not getting around to Heinlein yet.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:06
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Nalesh posted:So which streamers/youtubers are shilling the new patch and isn't entirely poo poo at it? Something I'm noticing a lot of the people playing doing is not paying attention at all to the relationship between pops and jobs; they tend to create far more jobs than there are pops because of the mentality of "I have resources I must build something!" This is especially bad when they build districts, which increase empire size, but both buildings and districts seem to cost you upkeep even while they aren't worked and give you nothing.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:15
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It's a loving crime more people haven't read Armor.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:17
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Black Griffon posted:Suddenly OK with not getting around to Heinlein yet. It's okay, most Science Fiction authors (especially around that time) are pretty objectively bad. raverrn posted:It's a loving crime more people haven't read Armor. This, however, is incredibly true. Armor is an excellent loving book and I hope whatever big patch redoes ground combat into something completely different is called Steakley.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:20
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raverrn posted:It's a loving crime more people haven't read Armor. The real crime is how many loving times they dropped Felix tbh
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Dec 4, 2018 00:21
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Bedurndurn posted:Second, his branch offices were getting discovered and shut down very quickly. He would pay something like 1-2k energy for a branch office that made 20-30 energy per month, and I'd be surprised if more often than not, they failed to turn a profit before getting removed. Or maybe it's just too easy to fight crime, not sure how the numbers on that work.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:24
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Have habitat requirements been changed in the new patch? I've experimented with them a few times, but at 10,000 minerals and 200 Influence a pop, plus a whole ascension perk, just to get a size 12 'world', my conclusion is that they're pretty garbage.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:25
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PittTheElder posted:Have habitat requirements been changed in the new patch? I've experimented with them a few times, but at 10,000 minerals and 200 Influence a pop, plus a whole ascension perk, just to get a size 12 'world', my conclusion is that they're pretty garbage. They are for tall empires. I use them in my games where I lock down no more than 15 systems and play isolationist science cats with robot slaves. My catmen never set foot on filthy planets other than the Mother World.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:28
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Black Griffon posted:Suddenly OK with not getting around to Heinlein yet. There are quite a lot of influential authors who have had some really incredible ideas/stories. One thing I've discovered is that often these are along with rather just awful views/ideas, and only sometimes can you even say "well back then..". For example I love horror and the idea of Lovecraft's cosmic horror creates just really impactful things. It isn't just me, there are *tons* of things directly or indirectly referencing his mythos. When you read (or listen to some of the rather excellent audio book options) the stories you need to be ready to accept that the protagonist is gonna be an academic white dude and there is going to be some really racist talk obscured a bit by the language. There are definitely some works where reading a summary of the story, and getting the meat of the interesting details while getting to bypass the gristle of the terrible parts is really worth it. Or sometimes there are derivative or influenced by works available that cover the cool stuff. Man I can't wait for tile-ageddon, Wiz should go bump the button that releases the game.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:32
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The thing I hate most about Heinlein is how he has entered internet political discourse when he was, while not a bad author, no better than Clarke or Asimov or so forth. Yet for some reason he gets quoted like a political thinker. On the other hand in this new system I can build the Caves of Steel, as God intended.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:33
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PittTheElder posted:Have habitat requirements been changed in the new patch? I've experimented with them a few times, but at 10,000 minerals and 200 Influence a pop, plus a whole ascension perk, just to get a size 12 'world', my conclusion is that they're pretty garbage. I think how we evaluate them is going to be very different in the new patch, size 12 just means you can only have 12 districts, afaik. You can still have tons of pops and buildings, provided you can give them housing and jobs.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:38
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Habitats are size 15 with the master builders perk, which if you're doing megastructure building you want for the speed increase. At 15 for 200 influence they're not bad if you lack other options for whatever reason. They're a reliable increase no matter what the state of your galaxy is at. Some setups benefit a lot more from them of course (especially pacifists IMO).
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Dec 4, 2018 00:42
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Dont forget that you can cram a shitload of them into one system, so you can get loads of population centers and stay within system cap. They are incredibly good for certain empires, and a waste of resources for others.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:44
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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Dont forget that you can cram a shitload of them into one system, so you can get loads of population centers and stay within system cap. They are incredibly good for certain empires, and a waste of resources for others. There will be no system cap as of 12/6. It'll save you slightly on empire size though, depending on whether or not you were going to grab the empty space anyway. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 00:46
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