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it wasnt broken people just didnt know how it worked basically ds3 poise works completely differently from previous kinds of poise and is more or less additional hyperarmour on certain attacks based on weapon type
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Dec 1, 2018 09:56
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"Doesn't actually work as it should or how it's described" seems to me like it's pretty much indistinguishable from "broken." Also please start using punctuation. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Dec 1, 2018 |
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Dec 1, 2018 10:05
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Cardiovorax posted:Also please start using punctuation.  But yeah poise in Dark Souls 1 and 2 had certain break points, DS3 it was even more opaque and I think only mattered if both you and the enemy were swinging your weapons at the same time or some poo poo. It's a good mechanic that was very poorly implemented imo.
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Dec 1, 2018 10:20
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bike tory posted:But yeah poise in Dark Souls 1 and 2 had certain break points, DS3 it was even more opaque and I think only mattered if both you and the enemy were swinging your weapons at the same time or some poo poo.
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Dec 1, 2018 10:24
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To clarify, DS3 poise allows you to take heavier hits when using attacks that have hyperarmor without staggering. It does not give you more hyperarmor frames. Also note that a certain patch (1.08 I think) changed how poise worked drastically, prior to that poise was a complete mess. Anyway, about armor in Bloodborne, it's really simple in how it works. Whatever armor against a certain type of damage you have, the damage you take from that type is reduced by that many thousands. So, if your armor against fire is 243, you take 24.3% less damage from fire attacks. The defense you get from leveling up is far more complicated though, but in short, that defense is more effective against multiple small hits than fewer massive hits. So, three AR 200 hits will do less damage than a single AR 600 hit due to your defense. Of course, the defense you get from armor would work equally well in both situations since it reduced damage by a percentage.
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Dec 1, 2018 22:07
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Cardiovorax posted:It's really a lot less opaque. Poise gives you "hyperarmor," which explicitly means "this attack is uninterruptable" and is only useful on exactly the types of attack you'd want it to be, namely the ones that have really long windup and would otherwise be really useless and easy to intercept (and in direct proportion to that, too.) Wear heavy armor, have greater ease using heavy attacks. Works like a charm. i would call it more opaque cause instead of having like, a handful of breakpoints, now you have a set of break points for each different class of weapon (although some share sets) much harder to memorize lmao
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Dec 2, 2018 01:34
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Tollymain posted:i would call it more opaque cause instead of having like, a handful of breakpoints, now you have a set of break points for each different class of weapon (although some share sets) Like, you can fight the same enemy with the same weapon twice, wearing light armor the one time and heavy armor the other, and tangibly notice the difference right away, no mathing or memorizing required at all. Why even bother, then? I know I never did and it still worked just fine, the game doesn't require it for the system to work. yes im a filthy casul thank you
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Dec 2, 2018 01:40
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 What's the worst that I can say? Things are better if I stay So long and goodnight So long and goodnight!
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Dec 4, 2018 01:58
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So I actually think the Orphan and the Wet Nurse are very similar beings, most notably in how the fight ends, not with their death but the death/freedom/passing of something else. The Wet Nurse also is quite similar looking to the Shadows of Yharnam which is neat for lore reasons.
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Dec 4, 2018 02:34
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I almost spit out my drink when The World Revolving started playing and I am very glad you don't have to kill the cthulhu baby
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Dec 4, 2018 03:46
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Oh, so that's where the "Lllllllooooser" gesture is used. Man, Souls games and their obscure "use a specific gesture in a specific place" puzzles. That one seems especially harsh considering just how long you have to stand there holding the gesture for, with nothing apparently happening. ...What did that actually do, though? It gave you something called a "Moon"? I liked the way you find the brain thing, though; just walking up on it in the darkness. That was suitably creepy. I seem to remember them doing something similar in part of Dark Souls 3.
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Dec 4, 2018 04:45
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It gave you the most powerful accessory for getting extra blood echoes without having to mess around with the chalice dungeons.
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Dec 4, 2018 04:58
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Antistar01 posted:...What did that actually do, though? It gave you something called a "Moon"? We'll talk about it in the next episode at length!
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Dec 4, 2018 09:32
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ComicsandSlushies posted:I almost spit out my drink when The World Revolving started playing You can’t kill something that is already dead though?
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Dec 4, 2018 09:38
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I always thought that Moon rune was BS. You have to sit with that gesture for way too long for anyone to reasonably find it on their own even if they make the connection between the brain thing and the gesture
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Dec 4, 2018 09:58
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bike tory posted:I always thought that Moon rune was BS. You have to sit with that gesture for way too long for anyone to reasonably find it on their own even if they make the connection between the brain thing and the gesture An interesting thing is that the Doll in the dream only responds to finished gestures, which means if you make contact with her she doesn’t do anything until the hands swap positions.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:06
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There are enough hints for you, on the whole, to figure out that you must be doing something wrong when nothing responds to your Make Contact gesture, at least enough to maybe just eventually let it sitting a while to see if anything happens. If that took five minutes of waiting, I'd agree that it's bullshit. Twenty seconds or so, though? Not so much.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:14
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Cardiovorax posted:There are enough hints for you, on the whole, to figure out that you must be doing something wrong when nothing responds to your Make Contact gesture, at least enough to maybe just eventually let it sitting a while to see if anything happens. So I guess you figured out how to get that rune without looking it up? It's 30s fwiw 
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Dec 4, 2018 11:27
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Yeah, the only hint that the Make Contact gesture could possibly do anything is that it's the only one that swaps positions after holding it for a while (unlike say, the sit emote which never changes once you plop down). That's really not much to go on, I know I had to look it up for sure. And even if you do intuit that it might have a use, since the Doll reacts to gestures and so on, there's no indication of what to use it on so you have to go around trying it on random things and that's just unfeasible. T he best hint they could've done that I can come up with would be if there was a talk prompt in front of the brain but it didn't do anything when you pressed it. Not even an icky gurgling noise, just silence, because you don't understand it and it doesn't understand you, so you gotta speak its language.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:46
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bike tory posted:So I guess you figured out how to get that rune without looking it up? It's 30s fwiw Would've been better to find the rune in the regular way, honestly. I really don't know how people ever figured that out at all. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 15:46
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When Slowbeef was streaming - when the game first came out, with whatshisface co-commentating - while he was trying to find out what "contact" did, he had his character just stand in the pose long enough that it switched sides with the position. I think he had to be told who to do the emote to, but he figured out that the emote was an elongated one.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:16
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CJacobs, so your assertion then is that Mensis only reached Mergo's Loft after you killed Rom, right? I always interpreted it as they had done so long ago, and then Rom sealed off that part of the Nightmare Realm to quarantine it. Hence why the Scholars are mummified when you reach the doors to the school in Yahar'gul.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:21
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Strange Matter posted:CJacobs, so your assertion then is that Mensis only reached Mergo's Loft after you killed Rom, right? I always interpreted it as they had done so long ago, and then Rom sealed off that part of the Nightmare Realm to quarantine it. Hence why the Scholars are mummified when you reach the doors to the school in Yahar'gul. Either is possible, but I prefer the idea that Rom sealed this off after the Mensis Scholars first got here, hence the lost master stuff, the Master of course being Micolash in this interpretation. However the other way is also reasonable and the master is something else going on.
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Dec 4, 2018 16:36
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quote:However the other way is also reasonable and the master is something else going on. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 16:40
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Cardiovorax posted:It makes a lot of sense, because Micolash really isn't terribly competent and it's hard to see him as a master of anything, particularly a gaggle of occultist scholars who know their stuff well enough to at least fail impressively rather than just fail. He’s pretty clearly in charge in some manner, he had the position of importance in the scholar room we first use to enter this part of the Nightmare. It’s actually his body we touch too. I’m pretty sure Micolash is meant to be the leader of the Mensis Scholars. It’s just he’s been driven mad by the nightmare. Micolash is the most competent Mensis Scholar. But this also is because I think they ended up being used by a different group of people instead of doing everything themselves. The One Reborn and the Bag Men and the Bell ringing Women imply that the Pthumerians have been infiltrating/using Yahar’gul and the Mensis Scholars for their own ends.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:16
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I don't know if people brought it up here or if I just read it in the Youtube comments for the Micolash fight, but there are some things about him that are just strange. For example, it was pointed out that the leader of a sizable cult probably should've twigged to the fact that Kos is dead a bit earlier than he did, namely never. In fact, Kos may have been dead since before the Mensis school even came into being. There was also other stuff, give me a moment to look it up... Ah yes, the whole praying to receive the same deal as Rom, when Rom seems, for all intents and purposes, a mindless beasts that can do nothing but hide the truth demiurge-style. It'a all a bit vague, but it's why I can see the logic in claiming that being the host of the nightmare isn't the same as being the leader of the Mensis scholars. He as a position of prominence, but not necessarily one of authority.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:21
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Cardiovorax posted:I don't know if people brought it up here or if I just read it in the Youtube comments for the Micolash fight, but there are some things about him that are just strange. For example, it was pointed out that the leader of a sizable cult probably should've twigged to the fact that Kos is dead a bit earlier than he did, namely never. In fact, Kos may have been dead since before the Mensis school even came into being. There was also other stuff, give me a moment to look it up... Ah yes, the whole praying to receive the same deal as Rom, when Rom seems, for all intents and purposes, a mindless beasts that can do nothing but hide the truth demiurge-style.
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Dec 4, 2018 19:13
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Strange Matter posted:CJacobs, so your assertion then is that Mensis only reached Mergo's Loft after you killed Rom, right? I always interpreted it as they had done so long ago, and then Rom sealed off that part of the Nightmare Realm to quarantine it. Hence why the Scholars are mummified when you reach the doors to the school in Yahar'gul. That's not quite what I was saying. I said that the ritual was being put on pause by Rom's cthulu shield- it is incomplete until you open the way to Yahar'gul, there's a popup on your screen that tells you as much when you wake up. I mentioned in the last video that you can see the Nightmare of Mensis from the Nightmare Frontier even before killing Rom (which we did in this LP), so it's likely that the scholars already had access to the Nightmare (possibly the big brain too) before summoning Mergo. That is a good interpretation of it though, and equally valid really. edit: As to why they've become mummified corpses despite this all happening very recently, it's like I said in the video- it happened when we broke the barrier and we can almost prove that definitively, but when we finally arrive there, time and space don't really apply anymore. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 19:40
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One other thing: in your video you seem to be linking The One Reborn to the Mensis Ritual. What's the connection there?
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Dec 4, 2018 20:03
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The Mensis scholars are different from the rest of the schism's various groups because their rituals, experiments, and so on are very violent in a way the others are not. The One Reborn is the prime example, even if its orchestrators are only tangentially related to the Mensis school itself. The One Reborn is the meatiest and gribbliest of a very meaty gribbly game, but even before that they were secretly abducting people and stealing corpses away to Yahargul to use for human fodder in rituals. While the other parties that resulted from the Byrgenwerth schism focused on science, knowledge, ascension through collaboration, the Mensis scholars tried to brute force their way to godhood and it landed them exactly where one might expect such a method would.
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Dec 4, 2018 20:10
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Mensis tried ascending by lining their brains with eyes like was suggested by Wilhelm, and their brains broke because that was stupid. Ironically though, Mensis *is* on the right track, they just misunderstood the meaning of what lining their brains with eyes actually means: you don't use actual eyes, but the engraved words of the Great Ones. You use runes. Kill Wilhelm, and you get a rune. Kill various hunters and bosses, and quite a few of them drop runes. Micolash and Rom, when killed, drop no runes, even though both of them are important to the plot. That's the real price of a stillborn brain: you can't grasp, let alone form the words of the Great Ones, and these words are absolutely critical in the alteration of the world.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:11
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Examining Mensis in the context of the other factions is interesting because it shows that there are basically three potential routes to transcendence in Bloodborne: -Insight, which was Byrgenwerth's route. They figured that with enough study, practice and meditation a person could elevate their thoughts to divine level and therefore become divine themselves. The flaw is that the human mind lacks the bandwidth to handle the insight needed for this to work. It results in Willem being a drooling moron and Rom, their one success story, who is surely described as "vacuous" for a reason. In focusing so fully on insight, Byrgenwerth failed to see the role of: -Blood, which is the Church's route. They figured that if you just shot yourself up with enough of the good stuff you'd evolve basically on your own. And they were pretty much right. The inferior product gives you beasts, but eventually they were able to refine their procedure enough to create the Celestial Emissary. Out of everyone they seem to have succeeded the most, but at the cost of the greatest collateral damage. Byrgenwerth and Mensis were disasters, of course, but it's the Church that reduced Yarnham to this state. Speaking of Mensis, their method was the most direct. -Contact. Basically knocking on the Great One's front door and asking to come in. They somehow discovered the existence of Mergo's realm and using their rituals bridged their minds into it. This worked surprisingly well, but for the fact that they lacked adequate insight or physical transformation, and they were destroyed instantly, Ark of the Covenant style.
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Dec 4, 2018 21:39
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Strange Matter posted:Examining Mensis in the context of the other factions is interesting because it shows that there are basically three potential routes to transcendence in Bloodborne: So, Monastics, Papists, and Anabaptists Got it.
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Dec 4, 2018 22:46
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On a less lore-heavy note, I imagine Jill attending therapy later and wondering why she can't just go inside her own brain realm and kill the nightmares there. After all, it's been working elsewhere so far!
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Dec 5, 2018 00:41
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Strange Matter posted:It's a moot point since everyone other than Micolash is dead or enspidered. Micolash could have been a useful patsy for the lead scholars or he could have been a volunteer but it's irrelevant. The Great Ones don't care about human status or prominence. The sole reason why he's still alive and untransformed is because he is the Host of the Nightmare and the laws of the cosmology in Bloodborne seem to demand a largely intact human mind to support a Nightmare.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:53
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You can assume that Rom is the one who maintains that plane though, since it collapses when you kill her. I think it stands that there needs to be some sort of living anchor for the dreams.
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Dec 5, 2018 01:01
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That nightmares are formed by or anchored to living (or unliving) things seems pretty certain, yes. I don't think I'd consider Rom anything close to a "largely intact human mind," though. Not in any meaningful way.
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Dec 5, 2018 01:04
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Isn't Rom a semi-successfully ascended human? I'd also argue that Micolash doesn't have a particularly intact or functional mind left either~
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Dec 5, 2018 01:07
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Yeah, but it's seemingly successful in the way the spiders are successful, just more powerful. I assume there's a reason they call it "vacuous," and not because there's a lot of empty space at the center of the delicious Tootsie Rom.  quote:I'd also argue that Micolash doesn't have a particularly intact or functional mind left either~ Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Dec 5, 2018 |
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Dec 5, 2018 01:10
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This was an awfully long way to go to figure out that the werewolves are being triggered by the full moon.
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Dec 5, 2018 01:42
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