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Fair Bear Maiden posted:Private Division is a division of 2K that exists specifically so they can fund and publish "high-end indie titles", basically, titles with a budget that's on the upper end of AA, from independent developers (which Obsidian was until a little while ago), on digital platforms and with a price point lower than $60. They also let the developers they work with retain the rights to the original IP they're developing, though Private Division gets the rights to publish the first sequel, IIRC, or something along those lines. That's good to hear. I mean, that still means that unfortunately we know nothing other than who's fronting the money.
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Dec 3, 2018 16:48
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Pwnstar posted:If you take traps out of the game and only have them in scripted encounters then the Mechanics skill has no gameplay benefit (compare to making potions, explosives, sneaking etc) so you have to make one up. Maybe you can keep your weapons sharp and get a little boost that way? Now players feels obliged to spec towards that 5% damage boost or whatever. e: vvvv Yeah basically. Traps in combat encounters: good. Traps in scripted encounters: good. Traps in general dungeoneering: not good. Things like the Sigils are alright because they aren't as much of a time/skill sink. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 16:52
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My problem with traps is there's no penalty at all for even hitting them because resting is now unlimited. So why even bother? They're just a nuisance. Of course that's all they were in Poe1 too since if you did step on one you'd probably just reload. I maintain that the best way to incorporate traps would be to have them be a part of fight encounters somehow. Those are the only traps that are actually meaningful because any out of combat traps can be resolved by reloading once you know they're there and/or just springing them all and resting afterwards.
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Dec 3, 2018 16:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Look, it's not an RPG if it doesn't have trap options By this logic all criticism is dumb because it amounts to a complaint that [game] isn't a different game. Rather, the implicit argument being made here is that certain 'old-school game' markers (e.g. traps) are not worth the corresponding cost (e.g. pixelbitching/skill tax), especially when there are already lots of existing 'old-school game' markers (e.g. top-down view, painted 2d backgrounds, paperdoll inventory, generic fantasy setting etc.) that convey that 'Infinity Engine' feel either without major drawbacks or even to the benefit of play experience. Traps-as-is, and related subsystems like skills or incremental XP gain, generally either don't serve a purpose beyond nostalgia-bait or have design purposes for a different style of game than PoE. Neither PoE game is really a 'dungeon crawler' as such, for example - progression is moving along a linear critical path, plot quest by plot quest, in a game world dominated by friendly or neutral spaces. Exploration and attrition in a hostile environment are not particularly relevant to PoE gameplay because dungeon-type spaces just aren't important; conquering dungeons (and their traps, their monsters, their loot) is a by-product of completing quests and side-quests (if the quest even involves a dungeon at all) rather than the way by which you progress and finish the game.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:23
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I think I prefer the Logical Fallacies Chud to trapchat. Excited for FORGOTTEN SANCTUM
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Dec 3, 2018 17:28
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Traps sucked in the old infinity engine games too. I'm a brokebrained baldur's gate solo replayer and I don't even bother with durlag's tower anymore because the floor traps are so goddamn tedious without a thief. Shame too because the scripted traps and puzzles there are actually really good!
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Dec 3, 2018 17:30
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DrPop posted:Excited for FORGOTTEN SANCTUM I would be but because of Ropekid's pernicious influence I'm entirely distracted by the new Battle Brothers DLC right now
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Dec 3, 2018 17:35
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Running around neketaka is a chore with my bizarrely long load times.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:48
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andrew smash posted:Traps sucked in the old infinity engine games too. I'm a brokebrained baldur's gate solo replayer and I don't even bother with durlag's tower anymore because the floor traps are so goddamn tedious without a thief. Shame too because the scripted traps and puzzles there are actually really good! I'll never forget the Petrify trap in the ol' forgotten temple under the Athkalta sewers. A very surprising Game Over screen.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:49
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Raygereio posted:I've played tabletop dungeon crawlers for almost 20 years and never used the lame "enter new room - search for traps - enter new room - repeat" routine in my own games. And none of my players ever thought of it as something other then a dungeon crawler. I don't have as much experience, but this is definitely true. Similar to how the best traps in these games are the scripted/CYOA ones, the best tabletop traps aren't "depression tile that opens a spike pit" they're "weird statuette that shoots fireballs, and rather than disarm it the party pries the thing loose and rigs up a primitive bazooka." Sadly, the latter kind of outside-the-box thinking really isn't possible in a CRPG.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:57
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Big Mad Drongo posted:I don't have as much experience, but this is definitely true. Similar to how the best traps in these games are the scripted/CYOA ones, the best tabletop traps aren't "depression tile that opens a spike pit" they're "weird statuette that shoots fireballs, and rather than disarm it the party pries the thing loose and rigs up a primitive bazooka." Sadly, the latter kind of outside-the-box thinking really isn't possible in a CRPG. Have enemies in the room and kite them into the trap, bingo bango. Better designed encounters to work around traps like that would work for me.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:03
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Big Mad Drongo posted:I don't have as much experience, but this is definitely true. Similar to how the best traps in these games are the scripted/CYOA ones, the best tabletop traps aren't "depression tile that opens a spike pit" they're "weird statuette that shoots fireballs, and rather than disarm it the party pries the thing loose and rigs up a primitive bazooka." Sadly, the latter kind of outside-the-box thinking really isn't possible in a CRPG. In BG2 in the first dungeon you could loot wands from magic traps.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:31
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Lt. Danger posted:By this logic all criticism is dumb because it amounts to a complaint that [game] isn't a different game. Rather, the implicit argument being made here is that certain 'old-school game' markers (e.g. traps) are not worth the corresponding cost (e.g. pixelbitching/skill tax), especially when there are already lots of existing 'old-school game' markers (e.g. top-down view, painted 2d backgrounds, paperdoll inventory, generic fantasy setting etc.) that convey that 'Infinity Engine' feel either without major drawbacks or even to the benefit of play experience. The game attempts to have dungeon crawling sections, though, and the mechanics designed for it actually work fairly well. Stretching your vancian spell list over 2 or 3 levels of dungeon is actually cool. Say no to savescumming, it will improve every game you play.
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Dec 3, 2018 23:49
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Savescumming is an implicit game mechanic and designers must design for it. In PoE it defaults to on and you can set a flag to turn it off.
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Dec 4, 2018 03:36
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User posted:Savescumming is an implicit game mechanic and designers must design for it. In PoE it defaults to on and you can set a flag to turn it off. See Shadow Tactics for the best implementation of this philosophy (which I wholeheartedly agree with).
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Dec 4, 2018 07:42
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Savescumming is a terrible term, who cares how people play their single player game?
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Dec 4, 2018 08:25
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Oasx posted:Savescumming is a terrible term, who cares how people play their single player game? Everybody cares. If you have infinite save/load ability then many chance-based mechanics are moot. E.g. IIRC you can't save in a middle of a fight in PoE just as in IE games thus it doesn't make much sense to save scum through a game - there's a chance that you'll have 5 critical hits in a row but it's minuscule. You can't save after every critical hit and thus bruteforce your way. But with other mechanics that benefit from your knowledge or are based on chance savescumming is an important part of it. In, say, Skyrim you have a steal chance which you can abuse by savescumming - but it's somewhat compensated by having skill-based hard limits on what you can steal and if you're caught it's not the end of the world. But traps that just lay there in a middle of a room are always a nuisance in a game like that, it just checks your save/load skills. Getting hit by a trap doesn't feel like a wrong choice you're paying for, it feels like a gotcha from a developer. Another way to do it would be adding traps right into arena - maybe enemies activate them when they see you or throw some sort of magical traps at the ground. But I realize that would overcomplicate thing. More mechanical games like Wizardry had you find trapped chests right after the combat and to savescum it you'd have to redo combat.
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Dec 4, 2018 09:51
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User posted:Savescumming is an implicit game mechanic and designers must design for it. In PoE it defaults to on and you can set a flag to turn it off. POE definitely shouldn't allow save anywhere, it invalidates half of the mechanics. There also needs to be a middle ground between save anywhere and iron man mode, which is stupidly extreme in a 40+ hour rpg.
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Dec 4, 2018 10:07
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I find it fascinating that some people want to prevent others to "savescum" because they themselves refuse to do it. Like, is your fun lower if you know somebody else will beat the game with infinite saves while you decide to play on Iron Man? Who cares. Have your fun and let the other have theirs. You'll even get an achievement they won't, so you'll feel special and the rest of the world will know you are so (if you need external validation of your videyagames achievements because you're that kind of person). That being said, I beat the game on Triple Crown (+ permanent death and restricted stash) so I'm better than all of you.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:12
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Furism posted:I find it fascinating that some people want to prevent others to "savescum" because they themselves refuse to do it. Like, is your fun lower if you know somebody else will beat the game with infinite saves while you decide to play on Iron Man? Who cares. Have your fun and let the other have theirs. You'll even get an achievement they won't, so you'll feel special and the rest of the world will know you are so (if you need external validation of your videyagames achievements because you're that kind of person). It's not about feeling special. It's about mechanics that assume that you're playing on Iron Man and turn in a boring irritation if you aren't.
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Dec 4, 2018 11:16
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h,as anyone modded the game yet to make modwyr sound like taiga from toradora or vegeat from dragonball z
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Dec 4, 2018 12:33
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Just lol if you don’t have an internally developed moral code for when it is or isn’t right to reload
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Dec 4, 2018 13:03
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Starks posted:Just lol if you don’t have an internally developed moral code for when it is or isn’t right to reload I am an old man with a job and only a limited amount of time I'll savescum at the drop of a penny and nothing anyone says can stop me
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Dec 4, 2018 13:31
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Amethyst posted:There also needs to be a middle ground between save anywhere and iron man mode, which is stupidly extreme in a 40+ hour rpg. If you think Iron Man mode is too extreme, then it's not for you.
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Dec 4, 2018 13:51
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Starks posted:Just lol if you don’t have an internally developed moral code for when it is or isn’t right to reload
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Dec 4, 2018 13:59
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lets compare our moral codes -No reload if you select wrong option in CYOA segments -No reload if you hit a trap -Only load back before a fight if you can't figure out a way to win it in like 5 tries
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Dec 4, 2018 14:03
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The only time I reload is if a party member dies. As in permanent death, not just getting knocked out.
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Dec 4, 2018 14:13
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Reflexively mash the Quicksave key every few seconds. Reload if you hit a trap. Reload if someone gets injured in a fight. Reload if your boat gets dinged up too bad before boarding. Reload if you get caught stealing. Reload if your crew beats you at gambling. Savescum every searchable loot node on the world map until you get ideal results. Spend half an hour reloading before every branch of a dialogue tree just to see what its like. Make a separate, carefully labeled save every time you make a new decision, just in case you need to roll back to 20 hours ago. Sometimes, I like to reload a save a few times in a row just to feel something, anything.
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Dec 4, 2018 14:14
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:Make a separate, carefully labeled save every time you make a new decision, just in case you need to roll back to 20 hours ago. I mean this actually saved me from having to completely restart after hitting a bug in New Vegas that broke the main quest, so.
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Dec 4, 2018 15:59
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I reload only when I accidentally gain disposition with Aloth
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Dec 4, 2018 16:03
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I need an app that makes a continuous rolling save so I can "rewind" my whole playthrough like it was a movie, just YRRRRRRP back to the exact point things went non optimalEn Garde Motherfuckers posted:. Savescum every searchable loot node on the world map until you get ideal results. Realistically once you've done this enough to get the rare drops you don't have to reload the rest of them Amethyst posted:POE definitely shouldn't allow save anywhere, it invalidates half of the mechanics. any game that takes more than an hour to play needs save anywhere because who the gently caress has time The new Bard's Tale IV game tried implementing a save point system and people got so goddam furious I think it sold all of five total copies (FWIW I actually kinda like it, especially the soundtrack which is the best video game soundtrack since Cuphead. They just added save-anywhere mode in a patch) Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Dec 4, 2018 |
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Dec 4, 2018 16:03
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Anyone know what race/gender/background/class to pick for 2 for maximum story? Im wondering if a deadfire former noble for example leads to anything being easier to get.
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Dec 4, 2018 17:22
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Iretep posted:Anyone know what race/gender/background/class to pick for 2 for maximum story? Im wondering if a deadfire former noble for example leads to anything being easier to get. Just pick whatever you want
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Dec 4, 2018 18:19
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Iretep posted:Anyone know what race/gender/background/class to pick for 2 for maximum story? Im wondering if a deadfire former noble for example leads to anything being easier to get. https://wiki.fireundubh.com/deadfire/dialogue-options Go nuts, my dude.
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Dec 4, 2018 18:47
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Octo1 posted:Just pick whatever you want no Miftan posted:https://wiki.fireundubh.com/deadfire/dialogue-options thanks
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Dec 4, 2018 18:58
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Furism posted:I find it fascinating that some people want to prevent others to "savescum" because they themselves refuse to do it. Like, is your fun lower if you know somebody else will beat the game with infinite saves while you decide to play on Iron Man? Who cares. Have your fun and let the other have theirs. You'll even get an achievement they won't, so you'll feel special and the rest of the world will know you are so (if you need external validation of your videyagames achievements because you're that kind of person). i think the idea is that there's bigger implications for the underlying design of the game, depending on whether or not you expect players to be able to save/load at will, and that can then impact how the game itself is produced, and so if you are someone that hates being able to save/load everywhere at any time, then a game that's design to accommodate that fact will include elements that you don't enjoy, and those elements might not need to have been included if the developers didn't allow people to freely save/load in the first place. so it's not so much "you're playing it wrong" as it is "by even allowing free save/load to exist, the developers have to include multiple extra considerations to account for it, and i find these extra considerations to be unfun/boring/etc, and they wouldn't be in the game if free save/load wasn't a mechanic; ergo a game with free save/load is inherently less fun than a game that does not allow it"
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Dec 4, 2018 19:05
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Miftan posted:https://wiki.fireundubh.com/deadfire/dialogue-options looks like a Female/Island Aumaua/Aristocrat/Priest of Magran is going to get an extremely large number of special dialogue options at the same time, a lot of the special dialogue doesn't seem to lead to anything significant or different. like, the conversation will be: A: "Hey Watcher, have you heard of Goobledegack?" 1. No, what's Goobledegack? (GOTO NPC LINE B) 2. Yes, I've heard of it. (GOTO NPC LINE C) 3. [Aristocrat] That's the horrid drug that poor people use right? (GOTO NPC LINE C) 4. [Priest of Magran] Only those that are not prepared for life's trials need Goobledegack. (GOTO NPC LINE C) 5. [Say Nothing] (GOTO NPC LINE C) so you're getting a little flavor in how you respond to the question, but it doesn't actually change anything or give you access to something you wouldn't otherwise be able to do anyway. IIRC the dispositions your character accumulates in game, or the way you solve other quests, have more opportunities to change how conversations play out (i.e. you get a reputation for solving problems with violence, eventually you can avoid combat encounters by threatening to kill everyone in the conversation before combat).
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Dec 4, 2018 19:23
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Iretep posted:no The only thing I will note is that the checks for 'Ghost Heart' Ranger subclass actually are mostly checking to remove the normal Ranger interjection since a bunch of the unique Ranger dialogue has you use your Pet to intimidate or interact and their pet is dead.
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Dec 4, 2018 19:36
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:Reflexively mash the Quicksave key every few seconds. Reload if you hit a trap. Reload if someone gets injured in a fight. Reload if your boat gets dinged up too bad before boarding. Reload if you get caught stealing. Reload if your crew beats you at gambling. Savescum every searchable loot node on the world map until you get ideal results. Spend half an hour reloading before every branch of a dialogue tree just to see what its like. Make a separate, carefully labeled save every time you make a new decision, just in case you need to roll back to 20 hours ago. Sometimes, I like to reload a save a few times in a row just to feel something, anything. Reload when a party member I like gets too mad over a decision I make. Making Eder upset hurts too much.
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Dec 4, 2018 19:41
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Eder being mad at me for stealing from the dawnstars convinced me to abandon my evil run within 5 minutes of starting it. 
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Dec 4, 2018 19:51
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