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Helith posted:Iron Bull presents himself to each companion differently depending on what he thinks will make himself look friendly and trustworthy to them. And around Cole, he's just uncomfortable and can't hide it. eating only apples posted:I would have liked that too Sten, without doubt, believes that the Qunari will inevitably conquer Ferelden and that it will be better for Ferelden. The closest thing he got to regret was saying that he hopes to not see the Warden on the battlefield when it happens.
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Dec 9, 2018 04:09
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Cythereal posted:I don't expect it now. Another reason why I bought no Inquisition DLC and why I'm not optimistic about DA4. My expectation is that the next game will consist mostly of opposing Solas, but near the end A Very Bad Thing will happen. Then Solas will turn to you and say something like, “I know you must hate me for what I’ve done, but we have to work together now or everyone is doomed.” And then I will stab him.
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Dec 9, 2018 04:15
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Skippy McPants posted:My expectation is that the next game will consist mostly of opposing Solas, but near the end A Very Bad Thing will happen. Then Solas will turn to you and say something like, “I know you must hate me for what I’ve done, but we have to work together now or everyone is doomed.” I stab Morrigan every time I play Awakening, it has yet to accomplish anything two games later. 
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Dec 9, 2018 04:17
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Cythereal posted:I stab Morrigan every time I play Awakening, it has yet to accomplish anything two games later. Well, David Gaider is gone now, so maybe the next time you kill his waifu it’ll stick. To their credit, Bioware is very good at writing characters I hate. It makes me wish they'd drop the hackneyed Save The World stories, and do a revenge or crime narritive. Something like Dragon Age 2, but good. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 04:20
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I’d like a redo of the small scale of DA2’s story, but set in a huge open world city in Tevinter’s capital.
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Dec 9, 2018 05:15
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Shugojin posted:Sten, without doubt, believes that the Qunari will inevitably conquer Ferelden and that it will be better for Ferelden. The closest thing he got to regret was saying that he hopes to not see the Warden on the battlefield when it happens. He's right
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Dec 9, 2018 05:16
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I also want to see a return/explanation of the Architect.
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Dec 9, 2018 05:27
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chaosapiant posted:I also want to see a return/explanation of the Architect. They covered that in one of the books, didn't they? Like Corypheus, he's one of the magisters who entered the Golden City.
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Dec 9, 2018 05:30
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Skippy McPants posted:But they were never not framed that way. With how their system is set up there is no cultural bridge that leads to coexistence. Any alliances they make are purely a matter of survival or convenience, so it's weird to act surprised when they inevitably break deals the moment it's advantageous. Alistair: So I suppose once I'm actually king I could end up in negotiations with the Qunari one day. Sten: My people do not negotiate. Alistair: What do you mean? They negotiated a peace treaty after the war, and as far as I know they've kept to its terms. Sten: They signed a piece of paper. But only because they knew that you believed in it. Alistair: And what is the difference between that and negotiating? Sten: They stopped fighting for their own reasons. And they will resume it again, one day. The agreement means nothing to them. Alistair: But I thought you said your people believed in honor. Sten: They do. The honor of the Qunari is what will bring our warships back to your shores. Personally I like how uncompromising and alien the Qunari are. Bull turning on you - and Cole reading his mind and finding no doubt or hesitation in there - is part of that fascinating package. It's even more hosed up if Dorian and he were in a romance, though. Poor Dorian.
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Dec 9, 2018 06:45
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eating only apples posted:I just finished Trespasser with a Solas romance for the second time and pretty sure I picked all the same There's a really good trick that the writer pulls when you have a good relationship with Solas: Solas: What will you do with the power of the Well once Corypheus is dead? Inquisitor: This war proved we can't go back to the way things were. I'll try to help this world move forward. S: You would risk everything you have in the hope that the future is better? What if it isn't? What if you wake up to find that the future you shaped is worse than what was? I: I'll take a breath, see where things went wrong, and then try again. S: Just like that? I: If we don't keep trying, we'll never get it right. S: (pauses) You're right. Thank you. I: For what? S: You have not been what I expected, Inquisitor. You have... impressed me. You have offered hope that if one keeps trying, even if the consequences are grave... that someday, things will be better. This is one of my favorite scenes in any game because it makes you, the player character, seem directly responsible for his choice at the end -- you've become unwittingly complicit in the plot to possibly destroy civilization out of your best intentions, all because he values your opinion. Now of course there is an illusion of choice here and everything does happen in a similar way even if you never talk to Solas at all, or if you antagonize him constantly and punch him, but it is such a powerful illusion. The one thing that game narratives can do that non-interactive fiction can't is to give someone the feeling that "this is my fault" and this scene delivers on it without being at all heavyhanded.
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Dec 9, 2018 07:20
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options and I still got emotional, don't talk to me about Women Playing Games, my inquisitor was hella Dalish and didn't let him remove her vallaslin. Solas is great and I think his romance improves Trespasser, even though I also love to deck him in the face
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Skippy McPants posted:I understand Solas' motivations, but I do not sympathize. Nobody should feel sorry for Solas. He is well written, but he is an awful, awful, awful person and the sooner he's dead the better off everyone else in that world will be. I mean what he did originally was good though? Ancient Elves were evidently as bad or worse than Tevinter, and may have even been responsible for creating the Blight, though that last part is speculation on my part. Solas doing what he did might have saved the world since it wasn't until Tevinter broke into the Fade that the Blight came back, meaning it's strongly implied that what Solas did locked not only the Elven Gods away but the Blight as well. Of course the debate I guess is whether the world he created by doing that is better than the alternative. But I imagine both the marvels and the evils of ancient Elves both make what Tevinter did look like childs play. Not that any of that makes what Solas is doing now ok. Bringing back the world he came from just means a return to mage God kings and that's probably no good.
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Dec 9, 2018 08:42
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Ginette Reno posted:Of course the debate I guess is whether the world he created by doing that is better than the alternative. The point here, though, is whether Solas thinks it's better than the alternative. He clearly doesn't. I'm down with burning the world to end an institution of global slavery, but taking such an action comes with the explicit understanding that a lot of bad poo poo is gonna go down and that whatever emerges from the ashes might not be what you want. We also only have Solas' word that splitting the fade was the only way to stop the Evanuris, but the fact that he's willing to do something equally destructive in the current setting is a cue that maybe the dude doesn't have the best judgment. In any case, faced with the reality that the world-shattering events he set in motion resulted in consequences and outcomes he finds unacceptable, Solas' response to do it again. He hands the Orb over to Corypheus, certain that this lowly human couldn't possibly unlock its secre—oops, he did and then almost blew up the planet. Rather than learn from this idiot blunder, he decides that the only way to help the elves is to end the world, again]. Dude has gotten multiple chances to realize that while he might be powerful enough to reshape the world, maybe he's not quite clever enough to pull it off without horrible poo poo happening to everyone, even those he professes to care most about. He is hubris personified. And that's without getting into all of his bigotry and constant paternalizing.
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Dec 9, 2018 09:29
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On a broader topic, I'll be interested to see how Bioware handles things if they do go with Tavinter as the setting for DA4. Putting the player in a world where slavery a day-to-day reality creates so many narrative pitfalls and I'm not sure Bioware's pulpy writing by way of Joss Whedon is up to tackling something so fraught.
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Dec 9, 2018 09:32
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A new fade theory just popped in my head. What if the original ritual that created the fade was a ritual sacrifice type deal to use the energy of the 7 great dragons. This cast them to sleep, they became blighted and the blight spread. Solas hints to Blackwall that what the wardens are doing is reckless and they dont know the consequences. Each of the 7 dragons represents part of the “seal” that keeps the veil in place. When the last two dragons are killed, the veil goes with them (as well as the blight.) Solas knows that if the wardens succeed then the veil will be torn. But once he resolves to tear down the veil himself, that’s what he does. Wakes and kills the last two dragons. The image of Solas in the new teaser seems to point to this outcome.
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Dec 9, 2018 09:33
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Skippy McPants posted:The point here, though, is whether Solas thinks it's better than the alternative. He clearly doesn't. Oh I'm with you that his subsequent actions (handing the orb to Cory, and trying to bring down the Fade) are bad things. I just think his original actions may have been good for the world. The Blight originating in the Fade seems to strongly imply that Solas locked it away there so if that's true then what Solas did was good. Of course since he's Solas his best laid plans were subsequently ruined by Men figuring out how to enter the fade physically, which is I assume not something Solas planned for. Supposedly this was done with the help of the Old Gods but I strongly suspect the Evanuris reached out from their prisons to convince men to try to enter the Black City. But yes that he's heavily flawed and that his current plans suck are not that debatable, really. I just think what he originally did was just, but now he's homesick and wants to bring back the world he's used to and he's going to destroy everything in his way to do that, and because his plans tend to not go the way he intends he might just doom the world for real this time. chaosapiant posted:A new fade theory just popped in my head. What if the original ritual that created the fade was a ritual sacrifice type deal to use the energy of the 7 great dragons. This cast them to sleep, they became blighted and the blight spread. Solas hints to Blackwall that what the wardens are doing is reckless and they dont know the consequences. Each of the 7 dragons represents part of the “seal” that keeps the veil in place. When the last two dragons are killed, the veil goes with them (as well as the blight.) Solas knows that if the wardens succeed then the veil will be torn. But once he resolves to tear down the veil himself, that’s what he does. Wakes and kills the last two dragons. The image of Solas in the new teaser seems to point to this outcome. The Blight didn't happen though until men entered the Black City. Yet some of the murals in Mythal's temple show Elves battling what look like might be Darkspawn iirc. And there's an Elven story about Andruil (one of the Elf gods) getting corrupted by the Void and basically going nuts until Mythal calmed her down. That certainly sounds like the Blight to me. Given the Fenherel myth turned out to be true in a way it may be that all the Elven myths have an element of truth to them. Anyways regardless of the origin of the Blight it clearly didn't come back until Corypheus and company brought it back from the fade. That means Solas locked it away. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 09:44
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Solas is just another Corypheus, old racist dudes who hosed everything for the rest of us a long time ago who want another turn at loving things up even more while saying baby it'll be different this time, I promise. Given the current state of our own world, the only moral choice is to crush his bald little head like a grape.
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Dec 9, 2018 10:05
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I'm pleasantly surprised; given EA's behaviour I thought there'd never be a DA4. I hope against hope that this will not have live service elements and be easy to mod.
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Dec 9, 2018 10:24
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Ginette Reno posted:Anyways regardless of the origin of the Blight it clearly didn't come back until Corypheus and company brought it back from the fade. That's what the Chantry says, but I'm not sure it's true. Also rebellion against an unjust system is good. Solas was a hero in the fight against the Evanuris and clearly has good intentions (from his approval of good Inquisitor judgements, and friendship with Cole). It seems to me his plans are unlikely to be simply 'revert to previous state of affairs', but we'll see, I hope. As for everyone disliking Vivienne - she's probably my favourite character after Cassandra. Sure, she's objectively wrong about everything, but she has reasons for that, and she is witty and brave.
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Dec 9, 2018 10:33
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Solas is elven for pride. Considering he used to be a spirit, he is literally pride made manifest. This is shown in that teaser; there is a wolf in profile, and three eyes are visible. That means five eyes in total, the same as a pride demon. His greatest flaw is that he is too prideful to accept anyone else's help or perspective; this is most obvious when he interacts with Cole: quote:Cole: He hurts, an old pain from before, when everything sang the same. quote:[Solas] "(Solas speaking through Cole) I'm sorry, Cole, but with your gift, I fear you might see the path that I must now walk in solitude forever. This fate is mine alone. Indeed, I would not wish it on an enemy, much less someone that I once cared for. Though you reach out in compassion, I must now insist that you forget. (Cole now speaks) I'm... what were we talking about? I'm ready to help people when you are." He does the same thing to everyone; he is happy to provide his advice, but ignores or dismisses any advice given to him. He is too prideful to accept that anyone else's perspective could have greater value than his own. I find it interesting that even while he does all of this, his greatest fear is dying alone. Solas is an extremely well written character. It's unfortunate that his main writer has left; in whatever guise he turns up in for the next game, I hope he stays true to his characterisation.
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Dec 9, 2018 11:06
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Plucky Brit posted:Solas is elven for pride. Considering he used to be a spirit, he is literally pride made manifest. This is shown in that teaser; there is a wolf in profile, and three eyes are visible. That means five eyes in total, the same as a pride demon. I thought Patrick Weekes wrote Solas?
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Dec 9, 2018 11:13
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Yeah, Solas was Weekes. He also did Bull and Crem, and he is the current lead writer for the series which is a generally positive thing. Like, Solas is great, and while Bull and Crem aren't perfect, they at least show an awareness of nuance that is essential to make what's good about Dragon Age work.
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Dec 9, 2018 11:28
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ghouldaddy07 posted:I thought Patrick Weekes wrote Solas? ... I thought he had left. Now I'm more optimistic.
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Dec 9, 2018 11:29
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Plucky Brit posted:... I thought he had left. Now I'm more optimistic. His Twitter still lists him as EA Bioware. You might be thinking of Gaider or Laidlaw? They were the former lead writer and creative director, respectively.
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Dec 9, 2018 11:30
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Plucky Brit posted:Solas is elven for pride. Considering he used to be a spirit, he is literally pride made manifest. This is shown in that teaser; there is a wolf in profile, and three eyes are visible. That means five eyes in total, the same as a pride demon. Solas also means 'to stand tall', which rebels against injustice do. (I am not sure where 'used to be a spirit' comes from, but pride demons are wisdom spirits, and wisdom does find it hard to take advice from folly.) The things you quote from his interactions with Cole simply show grief, I think, and the fear of dying alone is also a reaction to grief. He has lost almost everyone and everything he loves, and as he rightly tells Cole that is not something Cole can help with. Cole's preferred method of 'helping' people is to make them forget bad things; but grief-stricken people do not want to forget those they loved; they more usually fear doing so. On the other hand making Cole forget that Solas has a problem does Cole no harm at all, and pushing the Inquisitor away is entirely the right thing to do. He's infiltrated the Inquisition because he rightly doesn't trust it, he knows he may have to stand against her - he's got no business having a relationship with her. The only thing to criticize there is that he should not have let it go as far as it did.
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Dec 9, 2018 12:16
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I still don't get this tweet if he's really still working on DA4. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about it. Was this just to generate discussion so that the fans are more receptive to a DA4 announcement? Edit: It's never been said that the ancient elves were spirits. I have the feelings spirits/demons were always separate things from "mortals", but they all lived in the same world until the Fade got separated from the material world by the Veil.
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Dec 9, 2018 12:25
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Regarding Solas being a spirit, here is a line from Trespasser:quote:He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face. As for ancient elves, there are plenty of hints that they initially were something different: Kieran if he has the Old God soul says this to an elf Inquisitor: quote:I don't know why your people want to look like that...... your blood is very old. quote:Pulled, blood that is not blood, a tiny trace of time. Plucky Brit fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Dec 9, 2018 |
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Dec 9, 2018 12:42
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some good solas and lore chat. i really like how bioware has developed hidden internal consistencies (rather than simple random contrivances) in the setting that you can interpret for deeper meaning later.
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Dec 9, 2018 18:10
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Zane posted:some good solas and lore chat. i really like how bioware has developed hidden internal consistencies (rather than simple random contrivances) in the setting that you can interpret for deeper meaning later. They apparently had a pretty good outline from the get go (before making Origins), in contrast to the Mass Effect team. It wouldn't surprise me, because there's a lot of continuity in the Dragon Age games.
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Dec 9, 2018 18:28
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Torrannor posted:They apparently had a pretty good outline from the get go (before making Origins), in contrast to the Mass Effect team. Is there a link to any interview or suede where they talked about the 5 game plan and how much they had planned ahead?
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Dec 9, 2018 19:42
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chaosapiant posted:Is there a link to any interview or suede where they talked about the 5 game plan and how much they had planned ahead?
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Dec 9, 2018 20:03
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Oh dear me posted:That's what the Chantry says, but I'm not sure it's true. I don't see any reason to doubt the Chantry on that point. A lot of the myths in DA have an element of truth to them. Solas is Fenharel and really did lock away the Elven gods like the myths stated. Corypheus really is an ancient Magister and one of the ones that broke into the Fade. Thing is a lot of times the myths get broad strokes right but aren't entirely correct. Like it presumably wasn't The Maker that blighted Corpyheus, but he definitely was blighted by entering the Black City. Similarly, Solas did seal the Gods away, but it wasn't to screw the Elven gods as a prank.
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Dec 9, 2018 20:19
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Raygereio posted:I'm pretty sure there isn't one. That info mostly comes from the old, pre-BSN Bioware forums. Several Bioware devs were regular posters on there and talked a lot about the games and the development process. That's all gone now though. Those forums were shut down back in 2010 and were deleted some time later. Oh yea, drat. I was on those forums for years and forgot all about them. This was back when there was a DA social website where you can download 30 different kinds of jewelry dlc for the main game. I do like Origin for the way it’s allowed me to organize my games and all DLC without me having to have a dozen CD keys and discs available. Meow.
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Dec 9, 2018 20:51
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Raygereio posted:I'm pretty sure there isn't one. That info mostly comes from the old, pre-BSN Bioware forums. Several Bioware devs were regular posters on there and talked a lot about the games and the development process. That's all gone now though. Those forums were shut down back in 2010 and were deleted some time later. Too bad they weren't deleted before the tali sweat post happened
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Dec 9, 2018 22:52
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Ginette Reno posted:I don't see any reason to doubt the Chantry on that point. A lot of the myths in DA have an element of truth to them. Solas is Fenharel and really did lock away the Elven gods like the myths stated. Corypheus really is an ancient Magister and one of the ones that broke into the Fade. Thing is a lot of times the myths get broad strokes right but aren't entirely correct. Like it presumably wasn't The Maker that blighted Corpyheus, but he definitely was blighted by entering the Black City. Yes of course, but this just seems to me like the sort of detail that might be wrong. We know that the elves/Arlathan were being infected by the blight much earlier and that red lyrium is blight-infected Titan blood. We also know that if the Chantry could pick only one scapegoat for anything, it would be Tevinter mages.
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Dec 10, 2018 13:08
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I don't expect too many party member returns in DA4. Leliana might be long dead, or fantasy pope and so not likely to appear in Tevinter of all places. Similar for the other potential Divine Viktorias. Sera might have never been recruited, ditto Cole. Blackwall might be rotting in prison, Iron Bull might be dead. Which leaves Dorian, Varric, and Solas, with the latter obviously not returning as a party member. Dorian on the other hand is a natural fit for any game set in Tevinter. If I recall correctly, he's guaranteed to survive Inquisition, and always returns to his home after the events of the game. He will either be a major NPC or a returning party member. Varric is another possibility, but I don't know if they would bring him back a second time. He's probably busy writing books and ruling Kirkwall. I think Bioware did a pretty good job with setting up Solas. He's one of your initial three party members, meaning you will automatically use him quite a bit in the beginning. He's also a natural fit for some story missions. Why wouldn't you bring Solas to the Temple of Mythal? I know several people reported they barely used him at all in their first playthrough and so were surprised at the (initial) ending, but I think they were in the minority. Oh dear me posted:Yes of course, but this just seems to me like the sort of detail that might be wrong. We know that the elves/Arlathan were being infected by the blight much earlier and that red lyrium is blight-infected Titan blood. We also know that if the Chantry could pick only one scapegoat for anything, it would be Tevinter mages. Refresh my memory, where did we learn that the blight predates the Magisters entering the Golden/Black City?
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Dec 10, 2018 13:29
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I hope to gently caress they bring back the keep feature. Even though I only got through the main plot once, I made some questionable decisions.
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Dec 10, 2018 13:35
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I think they’ll almost certainly have to bring back the keep because DA4 will be on a next gen console and you only have to look at the sales of PoE 2 vs PoE 1 to see what happens when you make a direct sequel to a 60-70 hour RPG with no way to fine tune all your choices.
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Dec 10, 2018 13:39
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Torrannor posted:Refresh my memory, where did we learn that the blight predates the Magisters entering the Golden/Black City? Cori at some point says the city was already black when they got there. Also could be wrong here but doesn’t the red lyrium idol (which we know is just blighted lyrium) predate the blights?
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Dec 10, 2018 13:45
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Why wouldn't they bring back the Keep? It was well received when they used it for Inquisition. You can also upload your finished Inquisition file and generate a state for after Trespasser. The system is already in place for DA4. They might add or remove some choices, but it should be trivially easy to build on what they have already in place.exquisite tea posted:I think they’ll almost certainly have to bring back the keep because DA4 will be on a next gen console and you only have to look at the sales of PoE 2 vs PoE 1 to see what happens when you make a direct sequel to a 60-70 hour RPG with no way to fine tune all your choices. Oh? What happened?
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Dec 10, 2018 13:46
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Nobody bought it.
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Dec 10, 2018 13:47
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