Sandman - A game of mafia - The Something Awful Forums

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Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

I was going to go back and analyze the d1 votes to see what I found but before I even got there I saw some stuff that pinged me.

Tired Moritz posted:

hey sorry I didnt post that much the last day, I got really distracted with unsolved mysteries.

anywayy #vote AA

---

BottleKnight, probably.

TM posts a vote on AA. I then ask him who he thinks is scum (forgetting he had voted at the time :350:

) and he says Bottleknight.

Tired Moritz posted:

##unvote

I have a gut feeling that AA might be third party, but I guess this game might be too small for that?

First off, I think that 3p hunting is usually something scum does (since they can honestly case people). But second of all, this game was already identified as a C9 so it feels to me like an attempt to give the impression of content.

Tired Moritz posted:

am I legally allowed to vote IcePhoenix just because they replaced in and because I feel Solus's unhappiness of possibly getting lynched day 1 is from dropping the ball for his scum team?

TM - do you think Solus was faking his reaction to nearly being executed d1?

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:07

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 20:54

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

jimmydalad posted:

I meant that I feel that Pod and his actions should probably be looked at under a new light after we now know that Toalpaz was town and that Merk was scum. He was the figurehead of the voteswings against Toalpaz as well as Solus. I feel like the latter one is especially susicious considering Merk was close to getting lynched before Pod came in and moved the vote onto Solus. It took a very strong effort to get the vote back onto Merk and it all came in at the last second.

I feel like in these posts he voices willingness and support for a Merk lynch. Then, when push comes to shove and it�s clear that the Solus vote isn�t happening because MMT and I flat out stated we refused to vote for him while Toalpaz wasn�t moving his vote away from Merk, he is still hesitant and trying to make a case on someone who at that point had effectively quit the game. It felt like much more effort was needed to sway Pod than there should have been based on what he had posted in the thread.

The thing is though he had stated before that he would vote out Merk �in a heartbeat� and still fought hard against the vote when it was moving back towards Merk. His actions feel like they run counter to what he had stated previously. In general, I think he�s looking murky today and definitely one of the people I�m most suspicious of.

I haven't re-read Pod yet but will admit that just from my memory of how d1 went down, I agree with you.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:11

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

idk about you, but nowadays if I get lynched in day 1, I just shrug it off and join death chat.

Of course I don't know about Solus's past game history, and if they keep getting lynched d1, I'm sure it can be irritating. But I feel like frustrating at potentially getting lynched at day 1. it's probably genuine frustration, though.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:12

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

Tired Moritz posted:

idk about you, but nowadays if I get lynched in day 1, I just shrug it off and join death chat.

Of course I don't know about Solus's past game history, and if they keep getting lynched d1, I'm sure it can be irritating. But I feel like getting frustrated at potentially getting lynched at day 1 is more of a scumtell? it's probably genuine frustration, though.

jesus christ im too tired to type coherently.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:14

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

idk about you, but nowadays if I get lynched in day 1, I just shrug it off and join death chat.

Of course I don't know about Solus's past game history, and if they keep getting lynched d1, I'm sure it can be irritating. But I feel like frustrating at potentially getting lynched at day 1. it's probably genuine frustration, though.

Did it influence your opinion of his alignment?

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:14

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

jesus christ im too tired to type coherently.

really quick before you go to sleep - are you scum?

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:15

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

Murmur Twin posted:

really quick before you go to sleep - are you scum?

luckily for the scum team, I am not.

Murmur Twin posted:

Did it influence your opinion of his alignment?

Of course, when I was first reading it, I felt bad and thought it was ya know, relatable day 1 lynching problems. But I don't really know Solus's meta or temperament so I can't be definitely 100% clear. It really could be just Scum Solus getting frustrated and opting out. I want to see IcePhoenix make more posts, but if I have to say who was the scum replacement (if there is one), it would probably be BK than Solus.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:23

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Dick Bastardly replaces BK! :siren:

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:23

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Podima posted:

Hey I am sitting on a plane that will take off soon and am visiting family for a long weekend but will stay on top of this best as I'm able. Can someone please look at the timestamps of AA's posts at the end of d1? Can't easily retrieve from mobile but he stretched that 1% pretty far to push back at the merk execution.

Not it!

(I might tomorrow if no one else has but am a few minutes from passing out)

Murmur Twin posted:

I haven't re-read Pod yet but will admit that just from my memory of how d1 went down, I agree with you.

Post-reread take: I think Pod is town. The effort he put into his casework feels like it came from trying to figure out who the scum is, even if I disagreed with some of it.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:48

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also solus was at -1, if I was scum I would have hammered solus and have been done with it.

Nah

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:50

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

hey sorry I didnt post that much the last day, I got really distracted with unsolved mysteries.

anywayy #vote AA

---

Of course, when I was first reading it, I felt bad and thought it was ya know, relatable day 1 lynching problems. But I don't really know Solus's meta or temperament so I can't be definitely 100% clear. It really could be just Scum Solus getting frustrated and opting out. I want to see IcePhoenix make more posts, but if I have to say who was the scum replacement (if there is one), it would probably be BK than Solus.

What was the vote on AA then, like a jokevote?

##vote TM

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:50

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Looking back at the votes on MMT then the shift to Solus and Merk

The most suspicious votes are beets and FLs

FL for that real weak departure from MMT to something rather innocuous on Huma.

But beet more than FL for their series of convictionless votes. Seems like they were just following heat on MMT and toal and then ended up on merk at deadline, but no explanations really in between. Some vague snipes and a lot of jokes.

##vote beet

Would still vote Kash, and while MMT is probably unlikely for scum at this junction her/FL remain a point of contention in my mind.

Convictionless votes and jokes on day 1. :rolleyes:

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:52

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

I'm in this game now. Don't mind my lack of posting till I read and get a bead on this game.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:52

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

IcePhoenix posted:

Anytime beet isn't in the top 5 posters he's sus, IMO

My cushy easy job is busy at end of year.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:53

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

nah, AA's switch to Kash reminds me of when I used to switch my vote to someone random in hopes of stalling the lynch when I play scum

The reason I didn't vote Solus earlier is because I'm not a fan of voting someone who just replaced in. That's just unethical.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:55

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Hey remember when toalpaz accused me of trying to set up a chain lynch on merk for day 2?

Good times.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:56

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Case on TM:

- he was absent on a D1 where we executed scum
- he's claiming to be suspicious of Solus now despite not having any opinion of him on D1
- he dropped a vote on AA for no good reason, then unvoted and never mentioned suspicion on him
- the lurker case he's making on BK/(DB) is like the easiest case to come up with in the world
- it doesn't really seem like the Merk scum flip has had any influence on his reads at all (ie, he doesn't actually seem motivated to scumhunt)

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:56

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

I'm not very good at scumhunting

# ? Dec 14, 2018 01:59

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Murmur Twin posted:

Case on TM:

- he was absent on a D1 where we executed scum
- he's claiming to be suspicious of Solus now despite not having any opinion of him on D1
- he dropped a vote on AA for no good reason, then unvoted and never mentioned suspicion on him
- the lurker case he's making on BK/(DB) is like the easiest case to come up with in the world
- it doesn't really seem like the Merk scum flip has had any influence on his reads at all (ie, he doesn't actually seem motivated to scumhunt)

both the second last and the last points are the ones that stands out the most to me.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:01

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

MMT, what are YOUR new cases based on merk's flip? Cause I think you casing me because I'm not a very good mafia player is a false lead.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:10

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Anyhow... ##vote mmt

Both FL and MMT are making "good" posts but unless they are both scum bussing one another, this looks like a genuine scum versus town.

The only reason to call genuine content that isn't predicated on role information into question is if you have a reason to let it ride out.

Both FL and MMT have cases where inferred player motive is the linchpin, only MMTs looks far less reasonable in comparison.

Too genuine for joke phase isn't a reason, or all that telling about motive, but post count padding as pointed out by FL is directly attached to motive and a reasonable angle to pursue

Mmt latching on with her case reflects poorly.

---

Also I don't think it's farfetched that their play could be parsed as bussing, if MMTs vote and stance didn't come across as so opportunistic, I'd say that it looked like both of them were picking innocuous things to harp on.

Remember that first case I made on FL where I said I like to look for things that sound town, but on examination don't read like things town would say? This whole case, that AA wrote based on a single vote on FL at the very start of D1, is exactly what I mean. It's far too much analysis for that early in the game - it's scum trying to look town.

But for a far better case:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Can someone explain the case on merk and how it is merk or solus.

When mmt waffled away from all suspicion.

If that was a bad vote who were the scum on it or were scum watching from sidelines?

---

I dont see the case on merk FWIW, but I also dont get his early game tunnel on toal.

I do see the case on solus but that appeal was real.

Kashuno, mmt and pod look the worst to me.

Here are gigantic red flag posts. I personally felt like a lot of people had a read that merk was suspicious, to the point where "not seeing the case on him" stands out as scummy once we saw his flip. If AA was town, I believe he would have been engaged enough with the game to understand why people saw him as suspicious, and overlooking that to drop a vote on Kash reads to me like scum who thought there was going to be a no-lynch.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

In short:
Your brief appearance and self-excuse for a lack of reads, but more than that your willingness to vote someone and THEN say, "sorry, don't really have any reads or opinions" and vanish.

Then I really feel that you were holding out for a no lunch. Saw that as impossible and dunked merk, as stated this morning.

He called Kash scum, and then when asked for why, gives a reason that doesn't make logical sense (that he was holding out for a no-lynch when he was the person who hammered). It reads to me like a fake case that he messed up.

I'd vote AA or TM today. Goin' to sleep now!

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:10

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Also, look at the contrast between AA's start-of-game case on me (when there was no real information) versus his d2 case on Kash (when there was a bunch of content to analyze). Town cases should get more detailed as the game goes on, AA's are getting more vague.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:12

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

MMT, what are YOUR new cases based on merk's flip? Cause I think you casing me because I'm not a very good mafia player is a false lead.

See above

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:12

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

I feel like casing me, someone who afked in day 1, by saying I'm making an easy case, is itself an easy case.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:13

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

jimmydalad posted:

I may be looking a bit too hard into this but I�m leery of the way that Toal worded this post. It feels like it was structured in a way that they can throw suspicion onto people but then just fall back on a �I�m just jokevoting/roleplaying a character� just in case they get too much heat. They also don�t expand on why the three of us have the most �despair� nor what despair actually means. Overall, suspicious of Toal but then again, this is Toal and they are always or end up always looking like scum.

^ this is my first ping of the game.

scum merk posted this about town Toalpaz:

merk posted:

This post is very weird sounding.

a few posts later Jimmy put out the post quoted above putting shade on Toal and essentially supporting merk's suss without tying the case to merk's suss (thus not appearing to have any correlation; ie, scum teamwork)

then the bolded sentence as a hedge because of course a scum Jimmy would know without a doubt that Toal was town.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:15

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

I know you are but what am I.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:16

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

##vote Jimmy

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:16

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Dammit dB

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:16

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Dick Bastardly posted:

##vote Jimmy

by the way, I am sill well behind in catching up, so if for any good reason my vote is flat out wrong, please enlighten me as to why (quoted revelations preferred)

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:17

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Flying Leatherman posted:

I dislike Humalong and TM's day 1s and would vote either right now. (Maf edit: hum's last post feels hedgy and just a way to get in stuff masquerading as reads. His Toal read hasn't evolved and is based apparently on one single thing based on his posts today. Please read that post and the greater context of his posting today, I really do not like it at all.)

I would vote MMT because I don't like her explanation for her early play and I never got a reason besides "well, other people on this vote look bad" to seriously change my view. She is not my strongest read given the way Hum's played today but I am definitely still leaning scum.

---

I'm putting my vote back on ##vote humalong for now for reasons noted above.

---

I think that merk is probably town. I can see where he's coming from that scum would have an easy time pushing the vote. Like I said before, SL could be read as bad or scummy, I read his argument as bad, and the take that scum could be pushing him isn't outlandish.

Oooh actually as suss as I am on TM I gotta ##vote FL. She:

- voiced suspicion on Humalong (one of the players scum Merk was pushing) and TM (a lurker at the time who I also happen to think is scum)
- chose to vote Humalong and was satisfied with her vote
- claimed to that think Merk was probably town

Like if I'm going to vote strictly based on what we learned from Merk's flip I feel like it almost has to be FL.

OK bed for real now.

(typo corrected with mod permission)

Murmur Twin fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Dec 14, 2018

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:23

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tired Moritz posted:

I feel like casing me, someone who afked in day 1, by saying I'm making an easy case, is itself an easy case.

I'm a bit curious why you're not casing FL then?

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:24

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

fwiw FL is giving me weird gut feels (i'm still on the third page of the game)

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:28

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

I feel like they are town from their early yesterday interaction so I have not read in their posts too much

My earlier vote on them is a random generated vote, hoping to draw some attention to me that smaeter people could read. That's why I went with a lovely gutfeel reasoning.

Also Im about to eat my really late dinner and take a nap in a few minutes so....

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:29

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

beet's MMT vote at the bottom of page three, and the series of posts up to and even some after the vote make beet look bad imo.

it does kind of read like scum kind of jovially putting a vote down and immediately directing the convo elsewhere after Toal made the "chu chu scumtrain" post

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:36

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Tired Moritz posted:

Mmm, I agree with Pod.

Tired Moritz posted:

Toalpaz I just woke up!!!

this isn't game related at all but reading these posts gave me MAJOR deja vu for some reason

:stare:

# ? Dec 14, 2018 02:46

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

merk posted:

This is a very bad vote on MMT. The initial justification doesn't make sense. Throwing your vote around early d1 is not a scum tell. If anything, I'd say it moves the needle towards town because it draws unnecessary attention to yourself.

I'm thinking this post puts Sol in a better light. I see no logical reason to bus Sol at the point in the game that merk's post was posted.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 03:55

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Dick Bastardly posted:

I'm thinking this post puts Sol in a better light. I see no logical reason to bus Sol at the point in the game that merk's post was posted.

ok, maybe I read a little too much into this post.

I think MMT may be on to something with this:

Murmur Twin posted:

And I think that Merk's posts read like someone trying to save a scumbro.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 04:43

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Dick Bastardly posted:

ok, maybe I read a little too much into this post.

I think MMT may be on to something with this:

for clarity: "this post" refers to the merk post casting shade on Sol:

merk posted:

This is a very bad vote on MMT. The initial justification doesn't make sense. Throwing your vote around early d1 is not a scum tell. If anything, I'd say it moves the needle towards town because it draws unnecessary attention to yourself.

# ? Dec 14, 2018 04:46

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

I'm a hand full of posts past the top of page 10 now in my catching up and Sol is starting to look worse and worse

# ? Dec 14, 2018 05:26

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 20:54

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

##vote Sol

# ? Dec 14, 2018 05:29

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