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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

PT6A posted:

Focusing on power seems odd because we're pretty much all conditioned to think about controlling vehicles in terms of driving a car, where throttle setting is essentially irrelevant and we focus on speed.

Hence why all cars should have manually controlled transmissions.

Driving such a CVT should require a complex endorsement.

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INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!
I would think it’s because you’re flying a single engine plane made in 1972.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

PT6A posted:

In general, I'd say that it's one of the biggest differences between flying for real and flying a sim for fun. As pilots, we control aircraft attitude and power. Everything else just reacts as a function of those inputs, so our task is to figure out how to manipulate them in order to get the desired performance out of the aircraft. If you don't pay attention to your power setting precisely, you can't make the plane behave the way you want it to behave.

You spend just as much or more time focusing on attitude, but since in VFR flight that's basically code for "look out the window" you don't notice it as much. Focusing on power seems odd because we're pretty much all conditioned to think about controlling vehicles in terms of driving a car, where throttle setting is essentially irrelevant and we focus on speed.

Lesson one for me is always exercises demonstrating pitch for speed, power for altitude, adverse yaw, and p-factor. It’s the foundation everything else is based on.

If students don’t understand those, it makes learning the rest a lot more difficult and they’ll develop weird habits to compensate.

It’s always fun getting to the more advanced maneuvers and bringing it back to day one showing them how all of those things still apply.

e: Lesson two is angle of attack and lift vectors, which rolls into stalls and steep turns. The second half of the flying foundation.

e.pilot fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Dec 27, 2018

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
.

Wingnut Ninja
Jan 11, 2003

Mostly Harmless

e.pilot posted:

Lesson one for me is always exercises demonstrating pitch for speed, power for altitude, adverse yaw, and p-factor. It’s the foundation everything else is based on.

If students don’t understand those, it makes learning the rest a lot more difficult and they’ll develop weird habits to compensate.

It’s always fun getting to the more advanced maneuvers and bringing it back to day one showing them how all of those things still apply.

e: Lesson two is angle of attack and lift vectors, which rolls into stalls and steep turns. The second half of the flying foundation.

It's been a long while since my flight lessons in a 172, but I remember trim being pretty high up there as well. At one point one of my instructors flew an entire lap of the pattern using nothing but the rudder pedals, throttle, and trim wheel just to demonstrate how powerful trim is (and also how stable a plane it is).

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Wingnut Ninja posted:

It's been a long while since my flight lessons in a 172, but I remember trim being pretty high up there as well. At one point one of my instructors flew an entire lap of the pattern using nothing but the rudder pedals, throttle, and trim wheel just to demonstrate how powerful trim is (and also how stable a plane it is).

Oh yeah of course, that’s part of pitch.

Demoing flying a circuit practically hands free with a student that’s over controlling it always a fun exercise. Quick touch to rotate and stabilize in ground effect, hands free until the flare.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007


Wingnut Ninja posted:

It's been a long while since my flight lessons in a 172, but I remember trim being pretty high up there as well. At one point one of my instructors flew an entire lap of the pattern using nothing but the rudder pedals, throttle, and trim wheel just to demonstrate how powerful trim is (and also how stable a plane it is).

Ah, an Airbus pilot!

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

e.pilot posted:

Oh yeah of course, that’s part of pitch.

While that's true, I've found that you have to emphasize the yoke at the primary means of pitch control, or you get students just trimming all over the goddamn place with reckless abandon and a plane bobbing up and down continuously.

Hold the pitch attitude where you want it with the yoke, then apply trim until it takes no effort to keep it there.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

PT6A posted:

While that's true, I've found that you have to emphasize the yoke at the primary means of pitch control, or you get students just trimming all over the goddamn place with reckless abandon and a plane bobbing up and down continuously.

Hold the pitch attitude where you want it with the yoke, then apply trim until it takes no effort to keep it there.

I’d leave it at takeoff trim for pretty much the entirety of the first lesson, departure usually kept us climbing until we were just about to the practice area anyways.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

My instructor complimented me for not white knuckling the yoke. I guess many first timers worry that letting go will make the plane fall away beneath them. I fell back to a sim habit of getting the trim just right so it would fly level hands off. And blissfully fiddled with that while ignoring airspace, navigating etc etc.

Ola fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 28, 2018

buttcrackmenace
Nov 14, 2007

see its right there in the manual where it says
Grimey Drawer
we may have a contender for the ugliest livery award





at first I assumed this was an aircraft pulled into service with an unfinished paint job, but no it’s intentional - the second image is a different aircraft that than the one I was on

the passenger-facing side of each nacelle has little notes praising the aircraft - one side touts its fuel efficiency, the other its quietness

what is going on here

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

buttcrackmenace posted:

we may have a contender for the ugliest livery award





at first I assumed this was an aircraft pulled into service with an unfinished paint job, but no it’s intentional - the second image is a different aircraft that than the one I was on

the passenger-facing side of each nacelle has little notes praising the aircraft - one side touts its fuel efficiency, the other its quietness

what is going on here

They don’t even have GPS on board, they can’t be bothered to paint them.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Does anyone even attempt to operate IFR without a GPS anymore?

Like, gently caress, that must be a lot of work for pilots and controllers when everyone's now using RNAV routes for pretty much everything, not to even mention the lack of availability of non-GNSS approaches in a lot of places. There's a big difference between having enough equipment on board to complete an IFR flight in the event of a GPS failure/outage, and actually operating IFR on a regular basis without GPS.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Every Silver airways Saab 340 files and operates its entire route /A. That is to say, VOR/NDB nav only. They do have DME, at least, so there’s that.

It’s basically them and the SUPER CHEAP guys flying 1963 Bonanzas with the original panel.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

PT6A posted:

Does anyone even attempt to operate IFR without a GPS anymore?

Like, gently caress, that must be a lot of work for pilots and controllers when everyone's now using RNAV routes for pretty much everything, not to even mention the lack of availability of non-GNSS approaches in a lot of places. There's a big difference between having enough equipment on board to complete an IFR flight in the event of a GPS failure/outage, and actually operating IFR on a regular basis without GPS.

Up until recently, there were quite a few UPS feeders that did everything /A, since UPS gives the contract to the lowest bidder (who has to provide their own airplanes) and GPS costs money.

The 2020 deadline for ADS-B has pushed a lot of those companies to get GPS units installed, but I'm sure there's still going to be some holdouts running ancient Cessna 210's or oddball airplanes where there aren't many options for an IFR GPS installation.

I've personally operated one airline flight with no GPS (thanks to a dual FMS failure), and ATC basically just gave us vectors for the entire route to keep us from conflicting with everything else in the area.

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

MrYenko posted:

They don’t even have GPS on board, they can’t be bothered to paint them.

:pwn:

I don’t drive my car without GPS, even when I drive from my house to the burger place I go every Monday.

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous
I did a stint at one of those UPS feeders about 3 years ago. It was a constant stream of "Amflight 123 fly direct FUKUP." "Unable, slant alpha" "oh, right, fly heading XXX."

Except one time the reply was "well FUKUP is the intersection of 2 VOR airways, and you have 2 VOR receivers onboard, don't you?" I was unprepared to reply to that one on my feet :lol:

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule


23 Minutes in: "This is a Secret Briefing" (said over a megaphone)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBJ99bIhAVk

Jealous Cow
Apr 4, 2002

by Fluffdaddy
https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1078973001343881216?s=21

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

buttcrackmenace
Nov 14, 2007

see its right there in the manual where it says
Grimey Drawer

MrYenko posted:

They don’t even have GPS on board, they can’t be bothered to paint them.

so their aircraft aren't ADS-B capable? That would explain why their flights don't reliably turn up in the Flightaware or Flightradar apps.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009



It's seriously insane what can happen due to nothing but mass hysteria

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Mass hysteria though it may be, it highlights a need to be able to detect drones.

If there is no reliable way to do that, reports cannot be discounted.

Acid Reflux
Oct 18, 2004

MrYenko posted:

They don’t even have GPS on board, they can’t be bothered to paint them.

AMA about installing Universal UNS-1Lw GPS/FMS into a whole shitload of Silver birds. Whether they actually use it or not, I couldn't say, but they definitely all have it.

buttcrackmenace posted:

so their aircraft aren't ADS-B capable? That would explain why their flights don't reliably turn up in the Flightaware or Flightradar apps.

To the best of my knowledge, there is exactly one Saab 340 in the USA that has a functioning ADS-B system, and it's sitting out on my ramp right now. We recently got our STC approved for a Garmin GTX3000-based system. Saab themselves couldn't be arsed to come up with anything.

Acid Reflux fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 29, 2018

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Acid Reflux posted:

AMA about installing Universal UNS-1Lw GPS/FMS into a whole shitload of Silver birds. Whether they actually use it or not, I couldn't say, but they definitely all have it.

Whooaaaaahhh

How long ago? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t use it.

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


aphid_licker posted:

It's seriously insane what can happen due to nothing but mass hysteria

This is pretty much why even though the Fort Lauderdale Airport shooter was apprehended in 90 seconds, the whole shitstorm continued to get steadily worse all day

Acid Reflux
Oct 18, 2004

MrYenko posted:

Whooaaaaahhh

How long ago? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t use it.
I don't remember the exact time frame, to be honest... that stuff kind blurs out in my head after the big projects end. Maybe five or six years ago? It's been a little while for sure. We did a quite a few new system installations for them up here in Maine, including the FMS, and they also had a bunch done concurrently down in Nashville at Embraer.

Fun paint fact: The nacelles are fuschia. We actually call it "Fuschia, dammit!", because that's what the paint shop manager would (jokingly) snap back at us if we just called it "pink".

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
If it’s anything like the shipping industry, there’s an old shitstain in an office somewhere that just doesn’t trust these newfangled gizmos and the kids aren’t gonna use them on his watch.

I once stood watch with a guy who thought parallel index was too technological and unreliable. Never mind trying to get him to navigate by GPS.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

MrYenko posted:

Whooaaaaahhh

How long ago? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t use it.

Depending on exactly how their OpSpecs are written and what they train their crews on, it's distinctly possible the FMS has capabilities they're not allowed to use because they never demonstrated it to the FAA, or thought it wasn't worth the time/money to get certified.

I'd be surprised if they spent the money on FMS installations and don't use the basic capabillities, but it's very possible they can't do RNP approaches or something.

meltie
Nov 9, 2003

Not a sodding fridge.

Acid Reflux posted:

Fun paint fact: The nacelles are fuschia. We actually call it "Fuschia, dammit!", because that's what the paint shop manager would (jokingly) snap back at us if we just called it "pink".

"Throbbing Helmet Purple", as a lighting director I worked with would say.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS


It’s on Craigslist.

Finger Prince
Jan 5, 2007



It looks like a render!

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?
I feel like that would be challenging to learn to land well.

e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Holy poo poo :stonklol:


Look how small the rudder is :psyduck:

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Tail number: N666JD

Ardeem
Sep 16, 2010

There is no problem that cannot be solved through sufficient application of lasers and friendship.

Godholio posted:

I feel like that would be challenging to learn to land well.

Taking off would also be entertaining. Maybe put one of those little wheels on to prevent tail strikes?

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
Now that’s what I call pod racing!

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


“Aircraft project also available as a complete project for $150k”

It’s like they forgot about control surfaces. I guess someone talked some sense into the guy? This is a home designed plane I assume?

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


hobbesmaster posted:

“Aircraft project also available as a complete project for $150k”

It’s like they forgot about control surfaces. I guess someone talked some sense into the guy? This is a home designed plane I assume?

It could sit on the ground and still have worth as a piece of art

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

The only thing that could make that ad better is if it said the engines had just one high speed taxi run on them

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MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Vne: 250 knots
Vmca: 249 knots

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