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If you want to define tragedy broadly as a character suffering a reversal of fortune, there's still no tragedy to Miles Morales. Miles starts out miserable, things get worse for no fault of his own, but then he's better off than he started. Thus there's no tragic arc. Things working out happily is not tragic. The first Spider-Man movie has Peter Parker start out with a happy family even if he's unpopular in school, then he loses his family, and then his friend loses his. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Dec 30, 2018 22:36
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asecondduck posted:Your post made me think of the potential of the sequel having one of Spidey's rouge's gallery getting a universe hopper and teaming up with a bunch of other universe villians to commit a bunch of crimes. I imagine the Black Cat from Spider-Ham's universe is literally just a snarky black cat who is good at robberies. And the Lizard is just a lizard. You’d think, but it’s actually a catfish. Literally, Black Catfish. 
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Dec 30, 2018 22:55
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Well that was unexpected.
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Dec 30, 2018 23:29
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Atrocious Joe posted:Also really hosed up that no one on here has pointed out that Chance instead released 4 in Miles's universe. It took me far to long to catch that change. What is this in reference to?
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Dec 31, 2018 00:34
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Vandar posted:What is this in reference to?  i choose to believe in this world Kanye didn't go loving crazy and he and Chano released an album together before Coloring Book
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Dec 31, 2018 00:38
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Actually Miles does get his uncle killed by his own bad decision, it's just very indirectly. Miles is told by multiple people that his shoelaces are untied, he specifically states that it's a choice. Having his shoelaces untied makes him trip while he's trying out his powers and he breaks the override key. If he hadn't broken the override key (as a result of his own choice), they wouldn't have had to re-steal the data, and the villains wouldn't have been looking for spider people so Prowler wouldn't have been killed.
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Dec 31, 2018 01:06
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Really if you think about it it's Peter Parker's fault for using a cheap plastic piece of crap for the delicate piece of multiverse-saving electrical equipment he was explicitly bringing to a battle. The entire movie could have been averted if he spent an extra few bucks to get a reversible USB plug so he didn't get tripped up trying to plug it in upside-down.
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Dec 31, 2018 01:41
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porfiria posted:Is there a Spider Man where Peter is a huge anthropomorphic spider who gets bitten by a radioactive man and gains all the proportionate strength and abilities of a man? The 'Mazing Man-Spider. Showed up in a What If issue back in the 70's and was basically the prototype for Spider-Ham. The guy behind it then went to DC and created Superman-but-he's-a-cartoon-rabbit.
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Dec 31, 2018 01:49
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Gavok posted:The 'Mazing Man-Spider. Showed up in a What If issue back in the 70's and was basically the prototype for Spider-Ham. Not gonna lie, I'd love a Captain Carrot movie. DC Murderverse posted:
I ended up googling 'Chance rapper' to try and find out what this is, and lol, his name is actually Chance the Rapper. Figures. Vandar fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 02:08
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:If you want to define tragedy broadly as a character suffering a reversal of fortune, there's still no tragedy to Miles Morales. Miles starts out miserable, things get worse for no fault of his own, but then he's better off than he started. Thus there's no tragic arc. Things working out happily is not tragic. At the end of the movie Miles has powers (but one of the challenges posed by the movie is "is it right to put this kind of responsibility on a teenager, probably not"), someone he cares about deeply is dead, and he has a secret to keep from his parents on top of protecting his identity because he's seen first hand (and heard plenty of examples about) how dangerous it can be when the wires cross between Spidey life and civilian life. That the movie ends on a positive, somewhat triumphant note is not a negation of various tragic occurrences. If you look at it from the angle of: - Aaron is directly responsible for Miles getting spider powers. Miles knows this, even if it never comes up between them. Miles would never be Spider-man if Aaron hadn't taken him into the tunnels -> if Miles is never Spider-man then Aaron would never have hesitated in taking out a Spider-person and therefore had no reason to be shot by Fisk (destruction of the universe notwithstanding). - Miles looks up to Aaron and relates to him in a way that (at the start of the movie) he doesn't with his father. - Aaron (as Prowler) is directly involved in the death of Peter Parker and is more than willing to carry out further violence on Kingpin's orders. - Mile's inability to hold his own when prompted by the other Spiders causes him to doubt himself, flee, and bring down the Sinister...Five (?) on the Spider gang - Mile's inability to fight off his uncle causes him to have to reveal his identity to save himself, and thereby dooms Aaron In the final fight with Kingpin, Miles finds inspiration in his father's encouragement, even though he thinks that his father hates Spider-man and possibly blames Spider-man for Aaron's death (representing a renegotiation of his relationship with an authoritative, previously antagonistic figure, that affirms his ability as himself and as Spider-man) . He draws on the strength of Aaron's memory and guidance to embrace his powers, put Kingpin down, and finish the mission (representing a reconciliation of the conflict with who his uncle was - someone that he loved who didn't deserve to die but could still be a role model for him even though in all likelihood he was a very bad guy working for even worse people). Like Spider-noir says, it's a heavy origin story. I don't know if it rises to the level of Greek tragedy, but it certainly hit the right "Spider-man is a hero, suffers for it, and gets back up anyway" buttons for me. Anyway, glad this lived up to the hype. If they're really going to do sequels it'll be interested to where they take the story and how they use the newness of the universe to do cool unexpected stuff. I loved the take on Doc Ock here, caught me completely offguard but it absolutely ruled, as did the little dialogue interaction between Ock and Aunt May . Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 02:43
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Aunt May carries a bat around and DGAF despite being surrounded by supervillains. What a boss.
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Dec 31, 2018 04:08
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hiddenriverninja posted:Aunt May carries a bat around and DGAF despite being surrounded by supervillains. What a boss. She’s mildly annoyed that they destroyed her house, but she’s probably used to it by now.
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Dec 31, 2018 04:10
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I love that it's not even the supervillains who paint it as inevitable. When she invites them to take things outside, Noir is the one who says, "we don't pick the ballroom, we just dance." Thanks Nicolas, way to look out for your alternate dimension aunt.
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Dec 31, 2018 05:09
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Y'all see that they released the screenplay online for free? http://origin-flash.sonypictures.com/ist/awards_screenplays/SV_screenplay.pdf I was gonna give them another 10 bucks to see it again, but those idiots let me watch it again IN MY MIND! Those fools!
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Dec 31, 2018 06:21
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Since like the 90s Marvel management was trying to figure out a way to invigorate Spider-man and we disasters like clones, One More Day, etc. I’m glad it was Miles and aSpider-verse that did it. I guess if Slott is the one to come up with it he deserves some credit.
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Dec 31, 2018 06:53
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GigaPeon posted:Y'all see that they released the screenplay online for free? http://origin-flash.sonypictures.com/ist/awards_screenplays/SV_screenplay.pdf quote:And we go out in pure chaos, the most expensive dumb joke of all time...
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Dec 31, 2018 07:32
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This movie fuckin' owns on every level, not much to say that hasn't already been said. I went into it blind outside of just knowing that Spider-Gwen/etc. Spider-Folks pop up in it so it was a great surprise to see this take on Dr. Octopus and especially Prowler. Both were awesome. Prowler especially because even though I know who that character is I didn't see that particular twist with them coming until it was happening. In the the teasers and stuff I did wonder about the animation's intentional choppiness for the characters but like everything else about the visuals is was great to actually see in action and even fit the movie perfectly because of how so much of the plot is delivered via different Spider-People reading each other's comics and then how it ends with Miles telling his own origin story. I really appreciated that commitment and confidence in their characters and it let them do great things with the timing of all the action. Also I loved the 2099 comics so that particular version popping up towards the end and how it was used put a gigantic smile on my face. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Dec 31, 2018 |
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Dec 31, 2018 07:44
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:That the movie ends on a positive, somewhat triumphant note is not a negation of various tragic occurrences. Miles Morales doesn't undergo any tragic occurrences. They're merely unfortunate. For them to be tragic he would have been guilty of some error that destroys him. The perfectly happy ending does, in fact, negate the unfortunate events, because they're just unfortunate. At worst he's a kid guilty of tactical mistakes, and he recovers from those mistakes. The errors are committed by adults around him. Because people insist that it's a tragedy like Amazing Fantasy #15, they end up victim-blaming Miles Morales.
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Dec 31, 2018 09:38
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BotL, the problem is that you keep moving the goalposts. It doesn't feel like you're trying to prove a point, it feels like you're constantly changing your tune slightly in order to be "right". Also please stop bringing up the Spider Totems and such when discussing the film, it's clear that the Spider-verse comics have nothing to do with this film, plotwise. It's simply an inspiration, but the film diverges greatly.
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Dec 31, 2018 13:07
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Cat Army
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Miserable Maid posted:Also please stop bringing up the Spider Totems and such when discussing the film, it's clear that the Spider-verse comics have nothing to do with this film, plotwise. It's simply an inspiration, but the film diverges greatly. Spider-God exists in the movie.
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Dec 31, 2018 13:17
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No that was Aunt May Or a spider
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Dec 31, 2018 13:24
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The Spider-Totems are great because they're basically the in-universe representation of the required association of Spider-man equivalents with the spider motif even when adaptations are able to otherwise diverge wildly from the source material as long as a few recognisable elements are in play.
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Dec 31, 2018 15:40
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Miserable Maid posted:BotL, the problem is that you keep moving the goalposts. It doesn't feel like you're trying to prove a point, it feels like you're constantly changing your tune slightly in order to be "right". If that’s the case, then Stop Replying To BravesOfTheLamps. There’s a gif. It’s brightly coloured and flashes. People post it all the time but none of you dipshits seem to notice it.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:05
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DC Murderverse posted:i want to write the definitive Spiders-Man miniseries where his villain is a take on Swarm, but it's thousands of wasps that think they're human to better contrast Spiders-Man, I think we should have a human who thinks he's thousands of wasps. Guy Mann posted:if a radioactive spider bit a bear would he look like this now i want a universe with spider-bear. He's not a talking bear or anything, just a regular bear that got bitten by a radioactive spider. he doesn't do any superhero stuff because he is a bear. Mel Mudkiper posted:I have determined the spider man who would need to be in a sequel Turn Off the Dark Spider Man for the next movie
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Dec 31, 2018 16:29
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I don’t usually succumb to these sorts of books, but I picked up The Art of The Movie last night, and goddamn, that’s a gorgeous book.   
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Dec 31, 2018 16:32
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If you point at someone and yell about how they should be ignored, that person in fact becomes more difficult to ignore.The_Doctor posted:I don’t usually succumb to these sorts of books, but I picked up The Art of The Movie last night, and goddamn, that’s a gorgeous book. Looks pretty forgettable, to be honest.
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Dec 31, 2018 16:34
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The_Doctor posted:I don’t usually succumb to these sorts of books, but I picked up The Art of The Movie last night, and goddamn, that’s a gorgeous book. beautiful! one thing i really like is that a lot of the characters tend to have a distinct shape / silhouette
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Dec 31, 2018 17:10
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fractalairduct posted:
gently caress I knew I should have googled that joke regardless I want a spider-man who sings and does musical numbers Artelier posted:one thing i really like is that a lot of the characters tend to have a distinct shape / silhouette I think it was Matt Groening who said that good design means the character should be identifiable just from a silhoutte
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Dec 31, 2018 18:20
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fractalairduct posted:to better contrast Spiders-Man, I think we should have a human who thinks he's thousands of wasps. Lord keeps tweeting people making up new Spider-sonas, my favorite are the drawings of dinosaurs wearing tights and using spider-sense. Spider-Rex! Though I don't think tiny T.rex arms are going to be useful for thwip-and-release...
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Dec 31, 2018 21:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Spider-God exists in the movie. I agree that it presents a deterministic universe where Miles, by virtue of being a spiderman IP, is doomed to become a spiderman, and that that specific fate, the spider-bite-death-of-a-loved-one paradigm, recurs in a specific way across all these different possible universes, but as far as I remember, I don't think it's directly personified in the film as one Spider-deity, merely a general sense of fate.
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Dec 31, 2018 21:20
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They put the script online, prob one of the best I've read in a long time: https://twitter.com/rodneyrothman/status/1079057234959556608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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Dec 31, 2018 21:31
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What in particular is good about it?
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Dec 31, 2018 21:39
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So I just got back from seeing this with my nephew. It's the best thing I've seen in a theater since Fury Road. It might be my new favorite movie. It's just... it's just so good. I don't even like Spider-man all that much. But man, this is a hell of a show.
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Dec 31, 2018 23:01
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more and more I think about it the more wholly unnecessary Penni/Noir/Ham were Collectively I don't think they had more than 25 lines
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Jan 1, 2019 00:16
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Mel Mudkiper posted:more and more I think about it the more wholly unnecessary Penni/Noir/Ham were You're wholly unnecessary. 
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Jan 1, 2019 00:20
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Sometimes in movies it's just fun to have cool and funny tertiary characters voiced by Nic Cage in them. I love the Big Lebowski but Jesus is a pretty pointless character in it. He's in like two scenes, maybe 15 lines total. Wouldn't want him not in the movie though, because he overall adds to the texture and "universe" of the film. Also, it's fun to have cool and funny tertiary characters played by John Turturro in your movie.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:24
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Conrad_Birdie posted:I love the Big Lebowski but Jesus is a pretty pointless character in it. He's in like two scenes, maybe 15 lines total. Wouldn't want him not in the movie though, because he overall adds to the texture and "universe" of the film. Also, it's fun to have cool and funny tertiary characters played by John Turturro in your movie. They aren't tertiary characters though, they are ostensibly deuteragonists. The film is explicitly built on the premise of "spider-men from all over the multiverse" and in the end there are clearly characters the plot is built around and also characters who could be removed and not affect the film at all. The movie could have just been miles/parker/gwen and been a lot tighter of a film and not lost anything.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:38
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Noir Penni and Ham are all fantastic and you are as bad if not worse then Lamps.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:39
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Mel Mudkiper posted:They aren't tertiary characters though, they are ostensibly deuteragonists. The film is explicitly built on the premise of "spider-men from all over the multiverse" and in the end there are clearly characters the plot is built around and also characters who could be removed and not affect the film at all. I feel like this has also been talked about before and you're just willfully being obtuse. They're there to show how much wilder the "anyone can be Spider-person" concept can go beyond traditionally built modern day male/female. Also, to show off interesting new animation techniques by the crew! Also because it's fun! It's a fun movie! edit: I mean, c'mon, it's a loving family movie called "Into the Spider-Verse" it's absolutely ridiculous you're walking around with a hand to your head going "WHY SPIDER HAM??" Conrad_Birdie fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 00:40
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Conrad_Birdie posted:I feel like this has also been talked about before and you're just willfully being obtuse. Tossing in stuff just because its fun is what leads to films becoming bloated and aimless And I do agree that the different animation styles are interesting which is why I wish they were more essential. The fact that Ham/Penni/and Noir all represent distinct visual art styles was something I wanted to see explored a lot more than their limited screentime. The film is already visually fascinating in its "core" art style, and I would have loved to see the changing of the art style played with a lot more than it ultimately was. Conrad_Birdie posted:edit: I mean, c'mon, it's a loving family movie called "Into the Spider-Verse" it's absolutely ridiculous you're walking around with a hand to your head going "WHY SPIDER HAM??" Why is it everytime someone is dismissive of a movie like this people seem to go "animation and kids films don't get the respect they deserve!" and every time someone is being analytical about it they go "its just a kids movie don't take it so seriously" At least pick a side and stick to it
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Jan 1, 2019 00:46
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