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Penni is great just because a tertiary parody character with like a dozen lines is better animated than any actual legit attempts at making CGI anime to come out of Japan's animation industry ever.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:53
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Tossing in stuff just because its fun is what leads to films becoming bloated and aimless I'm not saying "it's a kid's movie don't take it seriously," I'm saying the inclusion of Spider-Ham in a relatively simple movie called Spider-Verse which is about bringing together disparate versions of the character pretty much explains their inclusion. I'm sorry, in your opinion, there wasn't enough material for them in the movie. I guess what they had worked for me. They each got a couple funny and/or touching moments, and helped tie into the message of the movie, again, that "anyone can be Spider-Man."
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Jan 1, 2019 00:56
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Guy Mann posted:Penni is great just because a tertiary parody character with like a dozen lines is better animated than any actual legit attempts at making CGI anime to come out of Japan's animation industry ever. I've heard good things about Land Of The Lustrous.
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Jan 1, 2019 00:58
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Conrad_Birdie posted:I'm sorry, in your opinion, there wasn't enough material for them in the movie. Are you the writer?
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Jan 1, 2019 00:58
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Mel Mudkiper posted:more and more I think about it the more wholly unnecessary Penni/Noir/Ham were Mel Mudkiper posted:They aren't tertiary characters though, they are ostensibly deuteragonists. The film is explicitly built on the premise of "spider-men from all over the multiverse" and in the end there are clearly characters the plot is built around and also characters who could be removed and not affect the film at all. I don't know if it's fair to bring up how many lines a character has to determine if they're a good character in a story or not. Noir Spider-Man has very little to say but they actually worked an arc in there. Like in Mad Max 2, Max has like 9 lines and two of them are "i'm just here for the gasoline" but no one's ever like "This Max guy...why was he even there?" All of his character is built up by how everyone around him acts, sort of like... My life fades. The vision dims. All that remains are memories. I remember a time of chaos, ruined dreams, this wasted land. But most of all, I remember Spider-Man, the man we called Peter B. Parker. To understand who he was we have to go back to the other time, when the world was powered by the black fuel and the desert sprouted great cities of pipe and steel — gone now, swept away. For reasons long forgotten Wilson Fisk touched off a particle collider which engulfed them all. Without fuel they were nothing. They'd built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked, but nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. Cities exploded — a whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Spider-Men began to feed on Spider-Men. Between the skyscrapers it was a web-slinging nightmare. Only those mobile enough to stick to buildings, brutal enough to use the proportional strength of a giant spider, would survive. The Spider-Men took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of web fluid, and in this maelstrom of decay ordinary Spider-Men were battered and smashed — men like Peter B. Parker, the Spider-Man Peter B. Parker. In the roar of a particle collider, he lost everything and became a shell of a man, a burnt-out desolate man, a man haunted by the demons of his past, a man who wandered out into the Spider-Verse. And it was here, in this blighted place, that he learned to live again.
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Jan 1, 2019 01:09
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Neo Rasa posted:Noir Spider-Man has very little to say but they actually worked an arc in there. which was?
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Jan 1, 2019 01:19
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the rubiks cube is a metaphor
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Jan 1, 2019 01:27
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Mel Mudkiper posted:gently caress I knew I should have googled that joke oh, i just assumed you were referring to a spiderman i'd never heard of, lol
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Jan 1, 2019 04:49
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Conrad_Birdie posted:I'm not saying "it's a kid's movie don't take it seriously," I'm saying the inclusion of Spider-Ham in a relatively simple movie called Spider-Verse which is about bringing together disparate versions of the character pretty much explains their inclusion. The 'joke' characters are also there to further contrast against Miles' development against the obstacles he thinks are holding him back. Gwen and Peter B are really confident and capable (well, Peter B should be capable but his head is in a bad place ...) and the original Spider-Man in Miles' universe was really really good at being Spider-Man and if they'd been the only Spider-people role models around then when Miles got to the ordeal/rebirth part of his Hero's Journey he probably would have gone "Yeah they're right, I'm not good enough to wear the suit, I'd just be a liability and hold everyone back" and quit. Having Spider-Ham, Spider-Man Noir and Peni around shows Miles that if you get handed Great Power then you've got to look inside yourself and find whatever it takes to live up to that Great Responsibility regardless of your situation. Miles might just be a kid but Peni is an even younger kid and she handles herself just fine. Miles might be a naive dumbass but Spider-Man Noir is a much bigger dumbass. Miles might think he's a joke but Spider-Ham is a Looney Tunes character and when the poo poo hits the fan he's actually pretty drat good at being a Spider-Man.
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Jan 1, 2019 05:01
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Plus, the whole 'Miles is not worthy' plotline works a hell of a lot better with a range of completely different, experienced Spider-Men declaring the standards, rather than two miserable grumps being a dick to a kid for little reason. Individually, they don't add a whole lot to the story. But collectively, they bring a lot more legitimacy to the plot and themes of the film. Not to mention that, despite the fact they don't motivate the macro story in proactive ways, they have a lot of influence on the micro plot in every scene they're in. And even considering the fact that maybe 'Peter Porker' or 'Penni' or 'Noir' are interchangable, that ignores their purpose to bring visual splendor and diversity to the film. It's like complaining that the Enterprise's disk and sticks shape is relatively pointless for the story of Star Trek. But it's purpose is to diversify a universe full of unique species with individual quirks and design philosophies, and to bring a familiar central icon that the audience can instantly recognize. And I would say that the trio were picked to be instantly iconic and recognizable as both Spider-Man, and to be completely unfamiliar to the traditional Spider-Man mold. It brings the film back to it's final and central thesis: Spider-Man can be many things, and anyone can be Spider-Man.
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Jan 1, 2019 05:19
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Having Spider-Ham, Spider-Man Noir and Peni around shows Miles that if you get handed Great Power then you've got to look inside yourself and find whatever it takes to live up to that Great Responsibility regardless of your situation. Miles might just be a kid but Peni is an even younger kid and she handles herself just fine. Miles might be a naive dumbass but Spider-Man Noir is a much bigger dumbass. Miles might think he's a joke but Spider-Ham is a Looney Tunes character and when the poo poo hits the fan he's actually pretty drat good at being a Spider-Man. That ties into something of a weakness of the film: that at the end Miles wins because he can acrobatics good and punch good -- and not because of anything particular to himself. Throughout the whole film they build the kid up, not as a physical powerhouse or a graceful boxer, but as someone who's creative. His primary strength is that he can express himself. The Peters were Spider-classic, Gwen was the ballerina dance-fighter Spider, Peni was robo-Spider, Hammy was looney-tunes-Spider, so how does Miles's inherent Miles-ness come through? Does he find a way to apply his artistic ability? Can he use his ever-present stickers to save the day? How does his ability to express himself save the day? It doesn't. He just punches hard, and eventually it works. His daddy loves him, it's very sweet, and his punches are electric now. I was disappointed.
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Jan 1, 2019 05:31
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SomeJazzyRat posted:Plus, the whole 'Miles is not worthy' plotline works a hell of a lot better with a range of completely different, experienced Spider-Men declaring the standards, rather than two miserable grumps being a dick to a kid for little reason. Individually, they don't add a whole lot to the story. But collectively, they bring a lot more legitimacy to the plot and themes of the film.
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Jan 1, 2019 05:53
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Schwarzwald posted:That ties into something of a weakness of the film: that at the end Miles wins because he can acrobatics good and punch good -- and not because of anything particular to himself. Making his punches electric does involve drawing on memories of his uncle, though...
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Jan 1, 2019 05:55
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Miles also spends much of the movie learning to control his invisibility too. (and it seems to be a VERY good power, given Prowler couldn't see him literally right in front of his face, and with a infrared visor iirc) Miles seems to definitely lend himself to being most effective when cornered, with a nasty fight-or-flight response. His creativity lends itself to being Spider-man through figuring out his powers and strategies on the fly, and in the end making a statement out of hanging up a captured Kingpin. (It doesn't come up much, but Spider-man relies on intimidation and trickery as much as Batman; he's a goofball from the audience perspective, but from his foes' perspective he's an unpredictable, inhuman... thing that doesn't adhere to remotely human limitations and spends rather little time on the floor) The secondary trio show that a spider-hero can be of any age, any era, and any form. Penni is younger and having to adapt to hand-me-down abilities that are even less intuitive than the usual spider-power package given they're technological in nature, Spider-noir is from an even rougher era and dealing with credibly dangerous and deadly enemies (freakin Nazis and all) and Peter Porker seems like this might not even be his first interdimensional crossover rodeo.
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Jan 1, 2019 06:16
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Schwarzwald posted:That ties into something of a weakness of the film: that at the end Miles wins because he can acrobatics good and punch good -- and not because of anything particular to himself. He wins through a combination of accepting his Dad's expectations of him ("Get up, Spider-Man!") and accepting his uncle's advice on how to be successful (he pulls the "shoulder touch" maneuver on the King Pin to finally defeat him. He even says "Hey" in the dumb voice with the little nod  ).Edit: he also applies all the lessons he learned during the film in the final fight scene. He snitches the goober from Peter B ("Don't watch the mouth. Watch the hands!"), immediately takes Kingpin's gun away, webs onto a subway train for a quick escape from Kingpin, etc.. Edit: Schwarzwald posted:His daddy loves him, it's very sweet, and his punches are electric now. His punches are electric because his daddy loves him. He learns to control that power in the scene where he's tied & gagged in his dorm room and his dad is trying to talk to him through the door. Specifically, he gains control of his electric punches almost immediately after his dad says this: quote:I see this .... this spark in you. It's amazing and it's why I push you. But it's yours and whatever you choose to do with it, you'll be great. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jan 1, 2019 |
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Jan 1, 2019 06:17
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:His punches are electric because his daddy loves him. He learns to control that power in the scene where he's tied & gagged in his dorm room and his dad is trying to talk to him through the door. In addition, he weaponizes his uncle's aggressive flirting style and directs it at a man, which I thought was a neat inversion.
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Jan 1, 2019 06:52
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One of the under-appreciated jokes I think in the movie is "Alright, one more time..." before every backstory because not only of the obvious joke that it keeps happening, but also because its kind of a meta-joke about how played out Spidey's origin story is
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Jan 1, 2019 06:55
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Skippy McPants posted:Movie is full of good dads. Jefferson, Aaron, and Peter are all pretty messed up in their own way but they're also all good dads to Miles. Yay for dads. And at the very end Miles also turns into a good dad when Peter B is scared to go back to his home dimension and Miles has to give him a pep talk and deliver his own "You won't know when you're ready, it's a leap of faith" speech back to him.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:04
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:And at the very end Miles also turns into a good dad when Peter B is scared to go back to his home dimension and Miles has to give him a pep talk and deliver his own "You won't know when you're ready, it's a leap of faith" speech back to him. No joke: "You gotta go home, man" was the best-delivered line in the whole movie.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:12
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Guys, I missed something and my girlfriend could not provide an okay explanation and nobody I talk to seems to have realized it happened or they just shrug it off as "a thing" but it must goddamn mean something. At the very end of the movie, like -- the very last line of dialogue. Someone, a female voice, says something to Miles. I can't remember what it was -- like, "Hey, how's it going" or something. It wasn't what was said that was especially important, it was the fact that it was said. Miles is listening to his headphones at the time, so I don't think he could have just heard a girl whisper that. So I thought it must have been a memory, like a reflection on something Gwen might have said. But he opened his eyes suddenly, like he DID hear it, and it wasn't just in his head. But who said it? Both Gwen and robot spidergirl were gone by then. I don't think it was his mother. There weren't any other female characters but for the scientist. So -- can someone shed some light on this? What was said, who said it, and how did Miles hear it? I'm not crazy, dammit.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:16
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credburn posted:Guys, I missed something and my girlfriend could not provide an okay explanation and nobody I talk to seems to have realized it happened or they just shrug it off as "a thing" but it must goddamn mean something. It's Gewn, she found a way to talk to Miles across dimensions. It's a setup for the sequel which will feature them both.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:18
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Skippy McPants posted:It's Gewn, she found a way to talk to Miles across dimensions. It's a setup for the sequel which will feature them both. Is there evidence of this in the film or is this speculation? Or, is this in adherence to the comic which already explains this... which now that I think about it sounds like it's kind of the obvious answer.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:30
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credburn posted:Is there evidence of this in the film or is this speculation? Or, is this in adherence to the comic which already explains this... which now that I think about it sounds like it's kind of the obvious answer. You hear Gwen’s voice and see a smaller version of the shimmering light of the accelerator’s portal.
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Jan 1, 2019 07:36
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I Before E posted:I've heard good things about Land Of The Lustrous. It was one of the major influences on Spiderverse's animation style, apparently.
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Jan 1, 2019 10:35
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credburn posted:Is there evidence of this in the film or is this speculation? Or, is this in adherence to the comic which already explains this... which now that I think about it sounds like it's kind of the obvious answer. Phylodox posted:You hear Gwen’s voice and see a smaller version of the shimmering light of the accelerator’s portal.
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Jan 1, 2019 10:52
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Apraxin posted:Plus Gwen in the comics has a dimension-hopping device for whenever Marvel needs her to interact with the main-universe characters. If I recall my barely extant comic book knowledge, she fared a lot better than Miles on that score. Didn't they blow up his entire reality?
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Jan 1, 2019 11:43
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credburn posted:Is there evidence of this in the film or is this speculation? Or, is this in adherence to the comic which already explains this... which now that I think about it sounds like it's kind of the obvious answer. Bottom of page 127/top of 128 in the script http://origin-flash.sonypictures.com/ist/awards_screenplays/SV_screenplay.pdf
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Jan 1, 2019 11:49
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All the realities got blown up. Miles got put into the regular reality when they got remade.
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Jan 1, 2019 11:50
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I'm looking through youtube videos looking for specific screencaps so I'm picking up a few subtle things that didn't register the first time around. Remember the final scene in the movie where Miles climbs to the top of the skyscraper and has his actual 'leap of faith moment' (with the awesome CAN'T STOP ME NOW! moment)? When he pushes off the glass shatters behind him: But at this point he knows how to control his spider wall climbing ability, he just has to relax and his fingers let go automatically. The glass shattered because he was terrified and still clinging to it right until the split second after he pushed away, but he still jumped.
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Jan 1, 2019 15:20
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It really is a nice touch that his learning experience hasn't really ended yet, and likely it never really will.
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Jan 1, 2019 17:55
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That was honestly the greatest Spider-man story I have watched, read, or played.
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Jan 1, 2019 18:21
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Yeah. Spider-Man PS4 was really good, but this was on another level.
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Jan 1, 2019 19:57
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I wonder if getting bit by an alternate dimension spider (presumably from Gwen's) will give Miles some sort of immunity to glitching. Seems like an interesting possibility.
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Jan 1, 2019 21:41
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hiddenriverninja posted:I wonder if getting bit by an alternate dimension spider (presumably from Gwen's) will give Miles some sort of immunity to glitching. Seems like an interesting possibility. that spider is from the dimension of Miguel O'Hara, Spider-Man 2099
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Jan 2, 2019 01:34
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grieving for Gandalf posted:that spider is from the dimension of Miguel O'Hara, Spider-Man 2099 If you’re talking about the fact that it says Alchemax on it, that’s the name of Kingpin’s company that ran the accelerator, not just the one in the 2099 continuity.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:08
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miles doesn't glitch because he's in his universe ???
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Jan 2, 2019 03:12
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ungulateman posted:miles doesn't glitch because he's in his universe But he might not stay in his universe in future sequels.
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Jan 2, 2019 03:15
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Phylodox posted:If you’re talking about the fact that it says Alchemax on it, that’s the name of Kingpin’s company that ran the accelerator, not just the one in the 2099 continuity. but it's a glitchy spider!
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Jan 2, 2019 04:32
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It's me, I'm the nerd that knew something was up with Aaron because he had an Xbox controller in his pad, in a Sony film.
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Jan 2, 2019 04:52
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derra posted:It's me, I'm the nerd that knew something was up with Aaron because he had an Xbox controller in his pad, in a Sony film. lmao
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Jan 2, 2019 04:54
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