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Pellisworth posted:saliva is pretty tame and there isn't much of anything that can be transmitted via saliva exchange so that doesn't bother me much As a CMV researcher I’m going to have to disagree here
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Feb 12, 2019 07:41
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pidan fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 07:50
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pidan posted:And from what I understand regular menstruation was a much rarer thing than it is now anyway, because it was common to be malnourished and have lots of children. this is probably also why even though lots of people aren't allowed to get married, illegitimate children aren't a visible public problem in this period--these people just aren't as fertile as people in the 19th century edit: quote:wine HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 08:13
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HEY GUNS posted:it's a hot mixture of water and wine, with tiny cubes of bread floating in it Yeah, the ethanol in the wine will inactivate or kill most pathogens, especially enveloped viruses Now, the grape juice at my church that a lot of the people want to take huge gulps out of instead of tincture, that’s a different story
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Feb 12, 2019 08:34
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happyphage posted:Now, the grape juice at my church that a lot of the people want to take huge gulps out of instead of tincture...
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Feb 12, 2019 08:42
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If the communion wine doesn’t get you buzzed, you’re not doing it right.
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Feb 12, 2019 08:44
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I don't know about other fluids, but pagans (like every other faith, it seems) go nuts over women on periods. They can't enter sweat lodges with the lakota, for example, and dianic practicioners think it the blood can be used for wicked strong magic.
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Feb 12, 2019 09:07
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Why do some denominations use grape juice anyway? The only reasonable justification I can think of is that it's more inclusive to use grape juice so you don't expose former alcoholics to alcohol. Jesus made wine, Jesus drank wine, Paul said drinking a little wine is fine and good for you even, clearly there's not much of a biblical problem with using a small amount of wine in communion.
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Feb 12, 2019 10:29
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pidan fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 10:33
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Some people think that “wine” is a mistranslation and that the original Greek or Hebrew could be understood as fresh grape juice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible
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Feb 12, 2019 10:33
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pidan posted:On a similar note, is there any mention in the bible of Jesus eating or encouraging the eating of any meat other than fish (and holy communion Jesus eats the passover meal which is known to contain lamb. That’s as close at it gets.
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Feb 12, 2019 10:36
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pidan posted:Some US denominations are strongly pro temperance / against alcohol. They tend to claim that the "wine" mentioned in the bible was not alcoholic, less alcoholic than modern wine, or only alcoholic for food preservation reasons that are no longer relevant. I don't buy it. Just seems like people getting their personal ideas mixed up with the Bible. It's probably just a holdover from the temperance movement.
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Feb 12, 2019 10:45
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but very nice for any faith that wants to include alcoholics, and there are a lot of people that can't be saved if you don't.
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Feb 12, 2019 12:01
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HEY GUNS posted:we're not supposed to gently caress the night before going to church and if a guy has a wet dream he can't serve in the altar the next day. if a woman is havng her period she shouldn't take communion, and after having a kid she has to wait 40 days. Pretty sure if you get blood in a church it deconsecrates it. Wait, blood in a church deconsecrates it? ANY blood? Like you sneeze, have a gushing nosebleed, and a drop hits the floor before you get a tissue out of your purse, and you ruined the church? worried about ever visiting a church now.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:26
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BattyKiara posted:Wait, blood in a church deconsecrates it? ANY blood? Like you sneeze, have a gushing nosebleed, and a drop hits the floor before you get a tissue out of your purse, and you ruined the church? worried about ever visiting a church now. 1917 Codex Iuris Canonicis posted:Can 1172 §1. Ecclesia violatur infra recensitis tantum actibus, dummodo certi sint, notorii, et in ipsa ecclesia positi: So homicide, including suicide, but not self defense apparently. An injurious or serious shedding of blood, even if it does not touch the floor. Nosebleeds usually are not injurious. 1983 code does not have these specifics included.
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Feb 12, 2019 15:53
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Tias posted:but very nice for any faith that wants to include alcoholics, and there are a lot of people that can't be saved if you don't. I don’t see why a denomination can’t say “Jesus was drinking the good stuff [i.e. alcohol], but there is no reason we can’t use fresh grape juice in our ceremonies”.
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Feb 12, 2019 16:12
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TOOT BOOT posted:Why do some denominations use grape juice anyway? The only reasonable justification I can think of is that it's more inclusive to use grape juice so you don't expose former alcoholics to alcohol. Jesus made wine, Jesus drank wine, Paul said drinking a little wine is fine and good for you even, clearly there's not much of a biblical problem with using a small amount of wine in communion. In my case it’s because we have recovering alcoholics in our congregation! There are other weird quirks about the church (German Lutheran, EKD if you’re familiar with German synods). We have no confession whatsoever, neither personal nor part of the service, which is imo the biggest problem at the moment. Back when I spoke with the pastor when I joined he told me it was a holdover from the post-war times, when soul-searching after the Nazi era was at its height. Apparently a large number of congregations then didn’t want to hear about guilt anymore, so the whole ecclesiastical region removed that part of the liturgy (which seems really, really leery to me, but I digress). Nowadays individual churches can reinstate it, and the pastor wants it back too, but the church board is full of older folks who grew up like this and don’t want change, so it’s stalled. HEY GUNS posted:is nobody directing this process? it's not fair to the people behind you in line! There are, but woe betide anyone who tries to tell a pensioner what to do
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Feb 12, 2019 16:12
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pidan posted:Some US denominations are strongly pro temperance / against alcohol. They tend to claim that the "wine" mentioned in the bible was not alcoholic, less alcoholic than modern wine, or only alcoholic for food preservation reasons that are no longer relevant. Jack Van Impe did an extended riff on the 'difference' between the Hebrew yain (sp?) and the Greek oinos and how they meant totally different things. I dont know if his argument was any good, I only heard it because Negativland sampled it.
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Feb 12, 2019 16:25
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If it were Jack van Impe, his argument was likely not very good. But I think, as other people have said, most of the churches that use grape juice instead of wine for communion realize that wine was used at the last supper, but that because of the physical and social harm that alcohol can cause, it's better to use unfermented juice.
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Feb 12, 2019 16:39
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Yeah, I've definitely heard the "it wasn't real wine in the Bible" argument before but I'm not really convinced even the people advancing that argument believed it. I once participated in a communion service that was grape kool-aid and wonder bread. (We were college students on a backpacking trip.)
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Feb 12, 2019 16:42
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Epicurius posted:If it were Jack van Impe, his argument was likely not very good. But I think, as other people have said, most of the churches that use grape juice instead of wine for communion realize that wine was used at the last supper, but that because of the physical and social harm that alcohol can cause, it's better to use unfermented juice. In the church I grew up in, the main reason was that minors take communion, too, and they don't want to serve alcohol to kids and teens. https://i.imgur.com/fsaq1zj.mp4
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Feb 12, 2019 16:54
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Platystemon posted:I don’t see why a denomination can’t say “Jesus was drinking the good stuff [i.e. alcohol], but there is no reason we can’t use fresh grape juice in our ceremonies”. The United Methodists do.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:04
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happyphage posted:There are, but woe betide anyone who tries to tell a pensioner what to do
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Feb 12, 2019 18:48
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Cythereal posted:In the church I grew up in, the main reason was that minors take communion, too, and they don't want to serve alcohol to kids and teens. 
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Feb 12, 2019 18:48
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Welch developed the method for making modern grape juice without fermenting it so that he could have non-alcoholic communion in his Methodist church. Hence Welch's Grape Juice.
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Feb 12, 2019 19:30
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BattyKiara posted:Wait, blood in a church deconsecrates it? ANY blood? Like you sneeze, have a gushing nosebleed, and a drop hits the floor before you get a tissue out of your purse, and you ruined the church? worried about ever visiting a church now.
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Feb 12, 2019 19:36
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In our little congregational church I was in as a kid, we had a tray of lovely little glass shot glasses, all with super tastey grape juice in them, and then later on I'd just pound down whatever was leftover in the church kitchen when no one was looking because grape juice. I suppose that explains my piety.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:00
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The rabbi never knew what was poured into the kiddush cups growing up so for my bat mitzvah I had some nasty kosher wine for the kiddush, but it was a surprise what I'd get. For my wedding we had better kosher wine for the kiddush, but I dont remembee anything from it
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Feb 12, 2019 21:55
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HEY GUNS posted:that has never stopped the Orthodox My impression was that the wine was sufficiently diluted so that wasn't a big deal? I'm still procrastinating/going slow on my catechesis so I'm not quite there yet.
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Feb 12, 2019 22:06
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CountFosco posted:My impression was that the wine was sufficiently diluted so that wasn't a big deal? I'm still procrastinating/going slow on my catechesis so I'm not quite there yet. Southern Baptists are prone to preaching prohibition to begin with, from my end of things, connecting drinking to bad behavior of all kinds. Perhaps the best way I've heard it expressed is "Jesus can drink whatever he likes, but you ain't Jesus!" https://i.imgur.com/A5fIaAz.gifv
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Feb 12, 2019 22:08
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I personally don't really drink anymore, but that's more of a personal thing. Alcohol just doesn't interest me.
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Feb 12, 2019 22:37
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CountFosco posted:My impression was that the wine was sufficiently diluted so that wasn't a big deal? I'm still procrastinating/going slow on my catechesis so I'm not quite there yet.
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Feb 13, 2019 01:11
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Cythereal posted:In the church I grew up in, the main reason was that minors take communion, too, and they don't want to serve alcohol to kids and teens. some lutheran congregations i am aware of serve communion to toddlers. including the wine
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Feb 13, 2019 03:17
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happyphage posted:Yeah, the ethanol in the wine will inactivate or kill most pathogens, especially enveloped viruses
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Feb 13, 2019 03:30
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HEY GUNS posted:the water's also heated before it's poured in but i don't know how hot it gets It doesn't matter how hot it gets, the goal is to work on oneself so that one can bear the heat.
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Feb 13, 2019 03:57
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before the electric kettle was invented this was just another way in which churches were giant fire hazards
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Feb 13, 2019 04:00
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even after that was invented, let me [TELL] you about the army of ancient-rear end coffee urns, the size of mini kegs, that were brewing away unsupervised in the basement during the service
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Feb 13, 2019 04:38
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Lutha Mahtin posted:even after that was invented, let me [TELL] you about the army of ancient-rear end coffee urns, the size of mini kegs, that were brewing away unsupervised in the basement during the service in our heads we can all smell that smell
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Feb 13, 2019 04:39
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Lutha Mahtin posted:some lutheran congregations i am aware of serve communion to toddlers. including the wine My kids, ages between 8 and 12, received bread and wine just last Sunday.
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Feb 13, 2019 05:19
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HEY GUNS posted:before the electric kettle was invented this was just another way in which churches were giant fire hazards So how many theological debates were there before electric kettles were deemed OK? I'm imagining priests going "We have used open fire since the year of our lord 276, why change now? Fire hazard? What if God wants this specific church to catch fire for some unfathomable reason? " I joke, but I have read about churches calling lightning conductors blasphemy, because they were interfering with God's will.
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Feb 13, 2019 12:17
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