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Jack B Nimble posted:Fixed recoil pattern = no gun but r 301 after a while? I was never one of those CS players but won't a good one be able to hold down the trigger and hit all the shots, after sufficient practice? Yup. It's why fixed recoil patterns are a terrible piece of game design, that some FPS games copy out of some cargo-cult mentality where "CS does it so it must be good".
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Feb 15, 2019 21:28
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panda clue posted:
That's dumb? Because things that are popular aren't culturally relevant, right? The TF2 subreddit has twice the subs the the combined Titanfall subreddit has. It's also 13 years old and hasn't been seriously supported in about a decade. This is a dumb argument though because anyone who sees "TF2" in the Apex thread and thinks "Team Fortress 2" is probably a wee bit touched in the head.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:29
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Small Bipedal Cat posted:That's dumb? Because things that are popular aren't culturally relevant, right? The TF2 subreddit has twice the subs the the combined Titanfall subreddit has. It's also 13 years old and hasn't been seriously supported in about a decade. This is a dumb argument though because anyone who sees "TF2" in the Apex thread and thinks "Team Fortress 2" is probably a wee bit touched in the head. It's probably because one is more culturally relevant and comes to mind first
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Feb 15, 2019 21:31
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Speaking of Cs with the recoil chat. How was that csgo battle royale? It looked like trash, I'm guessing it was trash.
Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 21:31
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DatonKallandor posted:Yup. It's why fixed recoil patterns are a terrible piece of game design, that some FPS games copy out of some cargo-cult mentality where "CS does it so it must be good". Agreed. gently caress design that promotes mechanical mastery. I'd rather it be random.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:35
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Small Bipedal Cat posted:That's dumb? Because things that are popular aren't culturally relevant, right? The TF2 subreddit has twice the subs the the combined Titanfall subreddit has. It's also 13 years old and hasn't been seriously supported in about a decade. This is a dumb argument though because anyone who sees "TF2" in the Apex thread and thinks "Team Fortress 2" is probably a wee bit touched in the head. Not really arguing, just giving my opinion on the matter - I don't really think there is a right answer here. What I really mean by cultural relevance is that people aren't really 'talking' about Team Fortress like they might be talking about Fortnite or Overwatch or whatever. It isn't something on the radar of anyone outside of that enclosed group. 50,000 concurrent users for a game that old (or even a modern game, really) isn't bad at all, but I do think calling Team Fortress 2 'popular' nowadays is a bit inaccurate despite that. DatonKallandor posted:Yup. It's why fixed recoil patterns are a terrible piece of game design, that some FPS games copy out of some cargo-cult mentality where "CS does it so it must be good". Why is being able to master a mechanic in a game 'terrible game design'?
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Feb 15, 2019 21:35
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DatonKallandor posted:Yup. It's why fixed recoil patterns are a terrible piece of game design, that some FPS games copy out of some cargo-cult mentality where "CS does it so it must be good". They're good game design. There's a reason all the serious competitive shooters use fixed patterns; CoD and R6S both switched to them. Any other method includes an element of randomness. It takes spraying from being an RNG bullet storm to a controllable, learnable pattern that adds to the skill ceiling. I don't see how you could possibly take issue with it.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:36
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Haha I just found out Daybreak delayed the Planetside BR game's release date JUST before Apex Legends came out of nowhere. Bet they're kicking themselves now! .... Although I kinda want to play it because I love Planetside. But Daybreak are responsible for H1Z1... So EEEEEEHHHH.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:39
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panda clue posted:Not really arguing, just giving my opinion on the matter - I don't really think there is a right answer here. What I really mean by cultural relevance is that people aren't really 'talking' about Team Fortress like they might be talking about Fortnite or Overwatch or whatever. It isn't something on the radar of anyone outside of that enclosed group. It's still the ninth most played game on Steam, beating out "popular" games like Warframe and Rocket League. Just Chamber posted:Speaking of Cs with the recoil chat. How was that csgo battle royale? It looked like trash, I'm guessing it was trash. I enjoyed it. It was small-scale and janky but had a lot of interesting ideas with mid-match objectives (like Radical Heights) and non-combat tools like hammers for various tasks.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:41
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panda clue posted:Why is being able to master a mechanic in a game 'terrible game design'? Because if you can just fire any gun full auto and be pinpoint accurate, why have recoil in the first place? Learning by rote which gun has which pattern isn't a mastering a mechanic, it's busywork - and it also defeats the purpose of having recoil on guns. Recoil in games exists so you can't just hold the button down at any range - fixed pattern recoil undermines that entirely. Turns out when every gun is a perfectly accurate laser, the only thing that matters is DPS and wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what's already happening in Apex at the higher levels. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 21:45
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DatonKallandor posted:Because if you can just fire any gun full auto and be pinpoint accurate, why have recoil in the first place? Learning by rote which gun has which pattern isn't a mastering a mechanic, it's busywork - and it also defeats the purpose of having recoil on guns. Recoil in games exists so you can't just hold the button down at any range - fixed pattern recoil undermines that entirely. Turns out when every gun is a perfectly accurate laser, the only thing that matters is DPS and wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what's already happening in Apex at the higher levels. Why do you care, you're never going to be playing at those levels anyway.
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Feb 15, 2019 21:50
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can caustic gas this thread
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Feb 15, 2019 21:52
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beats posted:can caustic gas this thread 
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Feb 15, 2019 21:53
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DatonKallandor posted:Yup. It's why fixed recoil patterns are a terrible piece of game design, that some FPS games copy out of some cargo-cult mentality where "CS does it so it must be good".
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Feb 15, 2019 21:53
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if you can do the combo in street fighter every time why not just make the full combo happen with one button press? learning by rote which attack combos into which attack isn't mastering a mechanic, it's busywork
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Feb 15, 2019 21:53
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Brother Entropy posted:if you can do the combo in street fighter every time why not just make the full combo happen with one button press? learning by rote which attack combos into which attack isn't mastering a mechanic, it's busywork Ed Boon! You should be working on the new Mortal Kombat
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Feb 15, 2019 21:57
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DatonKallandor posted:Because if you can just fire any gun full auto and be pinpoint accurate, why have recoil in the first place? By this logic, why have aiming at all? Just have all guns autoaim with laser accuracy! lmfao what the gently caress is this oh my god im dying
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Feb 15, 2019 21:58
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Ehud posted:Brackets are up for Doc's Code Red tournament: This is going live now if you guys want to watch: https://boom.tv/codered Lots of big streamers competing in this one too.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:00
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Why is his gas tank talking though.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:00
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DatonKallandor posted:Because if you can just fire any gun full auto and be pinpoint accurate, why have recoil in the first place? Learning by rote which gun has which pattern isn't a mastering a mechanic, it's busywork - and it also defeats the purpose of having recoil on guns. Recoil in games exists so you can't just hold the button down at any range - fixed pattern recoil undermines that entirely. Turns out when every gun is a perfectly accurate laser, the only thing that matters is DPS and wouldn't you know it, that's exactly what's already happening in Apex at the higher levels. Elysiume fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 22:01
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CaptainAssholay posted:Why is his gas tank talking though. he put a speaker into it so she could hear him through the gas-tight walls, you fool
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Feb 15, 2019 22:02
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https://twitter.com/RespawnJobs/status/1096090384239714305?s=19 Guys we didn't expect it to go this well come help us scale
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Feb 15, 2019 22:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ed Boon! You should be working on the new Mortal Kombat never have i been more insulted on these forums
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Feb 15, 2019 22:03
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 *deep breath* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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Feb 15, 2019 22:09
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Final Code Red post - here is the shoutcasting stream where they bounce around between streamers: https://www.twitch.tv/esportsarena
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Feb 15, 2019 22:18
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Why do you care, you're never going to be playing at those levels anyway. Unless there is MMR based matchmaking, yes, those people will show up in my game and murder me harder than I already get murdered. Fixed recoil patterns seems like a bad idea to me but what do I know.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:24
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Songbearer posted:
hell of a rush, innit?
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Feb 15, 2019 22:26
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Tei posted:Without something new every week, this game will not survive. Even less in a world where Epic is going to respond to Apex with something.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:30
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cargo cult posted:epic already tried a hero shooter and it was such an abject failure no one even knew it launched. i cant even remember the name, something to do wit hcops? Paragon, I believe. And it was actually a first-person MOBA, not just an Overwatch-style hero shooter. So I do not lament its demise.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:35
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Brother Entropy posted:if you can do the combo in street fighter every time why not just make the full combo happen with one button press? learning by rote which attack combos into which attack isn't mastering a mechanic, it's busywork
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Feb 15, 2019 22:40
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Ravenfood posted:but what do I know. Not a lot if you want forced MMR and RNG recoil. You're arguing for a sterilized grey wallpaper paste communist baby-game where the skill floor and skill ceiling are one in the same.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:40
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Small Bipedal Cat posted:Not a lot if you want forced MMR and RNG recoil. You're arguing for a sterilized grey wallpaper paste communist baby-game where the skill floor and skill ceiling are one in the same. So not random recoil is the sole defining factor on if a game is skill based?
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Feb 15, 2019 22:42
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socialsecurity posted:So not random recoil is the sole defining factor on if a game is skill based? He's being hyperbolic to make a point (and he's right) - don't be a pedant.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:45
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Just seen the value of taking a triple take over the other snipers. In an intense close fight and your other guns out of ammo? Well you have a sniper that is also a makeshift shotgun with a pretty large horizontal spread when you hipfire
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Feb 15, 2019 22:48
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socialsecurity posted:So not random recoil is the sole defining factor on if a game is skill based? It's a large factor. Again, I haven't seen any argument against it besides "It allows the skilled-men what have put in hundred of hours of play to kill me more easily."
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Feb 15, 2019 22:50
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I've never played a BR game before but this one is really good, my PSN thing is Stahlzitadelle because I never thought I would have to use it for multiplayer
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Feb 15, 2019 22:50
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Just Chamber posted:Just seen the value of taking a triple take over the other snipers. In an intense close fight and your other guns out of ammo? Well you have a sniper that is also a makeshift shotgun with a pretty large horizontal spread when you hipfire The bullet speed is also substantially faster than the other options, making the drop very minor (even at extreme distances).
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Feb 15, 2019 22:51
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My ultimate Battle Royale Game: 100 players spawn in a Hectogonal pattern, facing one another. The map is flat and it is grey. There is no looting. The players all have the same gun, it is the only gun. It kills in one shot. There is no aim as some players aim better than others, so the gun aims itself. The players cannot move as positional differences in 3D space could create gameplay disparities. This is my game. Thank you.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:59
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Small Bipedal Cat posted:It's a large factor. Again, I haven't seen any argument against it besides "It allows the skilled-men what have put in hundred of hours of play to kill me more easily." Any reason you happen to dismiss that argument out of hand? I'm not trying to argue some kind of truth about gaming design, I'm stating an opinion because yeah, there's a point where I won't have as much fun playing when I lose like that because my job isn't literally playing videogames. High skill ceilings are cool, agreed, but I also think that the higher you make the ceiling, the more things like matchmaking become important. I'm also not particularly arguing for MMR, just pointing out that "you're a bad so why does a high skill ceiling matter" is a bad argument when there isn't any mmr.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:02
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Small Bipedal Cat posted:My ultimate Battle Royale Game: Just verifying, is this in response to some guy not wanting randomized recoil patterns, or wanting them. Because obviously both of them lead to this.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:02
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