Minecraft Modding: Mein Kraft

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Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Doorknob Slobber posted:

nah I've got 16 and a 970, I tried loading up a brand new world in creative mode and it hangs there too just in case it was something hosed up from a previous version or something

Other than your hard drive being full, I can't think of anything. Maybe someone else will have an idea.

# ? Feb 19, 2019 20:02

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# ? May 2, 2024 09:12

Devor: Nov 30, 2004; Lurking more.

Doorknob Slobber posted:

nah I've got 16 and a 970, I tried loading up a brand new world in creative mode and it hangs there too just in case it was something hosed up from a previous version or something

Are you on the latest version of PO3? Have you manually updated versions for any of the mods to something other than what PO3 ships with, or added/removed any mods?

# ? Feb 19, 2019 20:39

Rynoto: Apr 27, 2009; It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Latest version of java? Always a huge one especially if you're using a launcher like, say, Twitch as it defaults to an old inbuilt one.
How about proper command line java args? Garbage collection could be a problem when loading something big like a new dimension.

# ? Feb 19, 2019 22:33

Doorknob Slobber: Sep 10, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Devor posted:

Are you on the latest version of PO3? Have you manually updated versions for any of the mods to something other than what PO3 ships with, or added/removed any mods?

yes, no, latest version of java, not sure how to see command line stuff. I'm just going to back everything up and try on a completely fresh install

# ? Feb 19, 2019 22:42

Devor: Nov 30, 2004; Lurking more.

Doorknob Slobber posted:

not sure how to see command line stuff.

Twitch drop down in upper right

Settings (opens a window that says Configure Twitch)

Minecraft tab along left side

You can choose Launch Method - I think I use Native Launcher, but if you choose Jar Launcher then you specify the Java version. Scroll all the way down, you can see Java Arguments - I use "-Xmx9G" which sets it to 9GB of memory, overriding other settings

# ? Feb 19, 2019 22:45

Rynoto: Apr 27, 2009; It doesn't help that I'm fat as fuck, so my face shouldn't be shown off in the first place.

Devor posted:

You can choose Launch Method - I think I use Native Launcher, but if you choose Jar Launcher then you specify the Java version. Scroll all the way down, you can see Java Arguments - I use "-Xmx9G" which sets it to 9GB of memory, overriding other settings

Yeah this. Here's the one I've been using which was originally taken from the sevtech pack maker but will work for any big pack.

quote:

-XX:+UseG1GC -Dsun.rmi.dgc.server.gcInterval=2147483646 -XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:G1NewSizePercent=20 -XX:G1ReservePercent=20 -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=50 -XX:G1HeapRegionSize=32M

This one assumes memory cap is set elsewhere otherwise you can add the memory arg as above. The command line will override any other settings anyways.

# ? Feb 19, 2019 22:50

Doorknob Slobber: Sep 10, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Thanks that + fresh install seems to have gotten things working

# ? Feb 19, 2019 23:42

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Doorknob Slobber posted:

Thanks that + fresh install seems to have gotten things working

Java 1.8.0_181

code:

-d64 -server -XX:+AggressiveOpts -XX:ParallelGCThreads=3 -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC
-XX:+UnlockExperimentalVMOptions -XX:+UseParNewGC -XX:+ExplicitGCInvokesConcurrent
-XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=10  -XX:GCPauseIntervalMillis=50 -XX:+UseFastAccessorMethods
-XX:+OptimizeStringConcat -XX:NewSize=84m -XX:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX:NewRatio=3
-Dfml.readTimeout=90

This gets me 40fps @1440p-ish (windowed) on the haswell graphics of my 4590 in linux with multimc.

Found my ancient golem problem: I was in darklands mountain biome. Built a new cursed earth farm that crosses between forest & darklands and that fixes the problem. Dump them all into an ender chest to one sorting system.

I pushed my gold furnaces all the way to enderium furnaces and boy is that nice. Ten smelts per tiny charcoal or 3 per stick which I have so many of due to bonsai pots.

3.0.38 makes you buy all the ability totems instead of dropping them, yikes. Tens of thousands of RAK to get all the levels of everything, I hope they made the questlines a bit more generous.

# ? Feb 20, 2019 03:02

Hooplah: Jul 15, 2006

enigmatica 2 expert:

# ? Feb 20, 2019 07:00

..btt: Mar 26, 2008

Harik posted:

3.0.38 makes you buy all the ability totems instead of dropping them, yikes. Tens of thousands of RAK to get all the levels of everything, I hope they made the questlines a bit more generous.

I haven't actually tried it, but I found a very large structure in the twilight forest made of blocks that JEI tells me can be crafted into RAK making the supply essentially infinite.

# ? Feb 20, 2019 12:59

Falcon2001: Oct 10, 2004; Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.; Pillbug

Couple firsts for me in Project Ozone 3, which is grabbing me a lot more than I expected.

First time seeing the End Poem (Somehow...after playing this game since Beta, I hadn't ever killed the Ender dragon properly).

First time fully automating Thermal Expansion's alloys with AE2.

Honestly not sure why I didn't do some of this stuff before. Also fully automated Mystical Seeds production which...yeah that's really needed. Nice to see the new Industrial Foregoing crop interactor machine.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 00:22

Vib Rib: Jul 23, 2007; God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss
🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

What's good autofarming for Mystic Agriculture crops? A huge part of the mod seems to be based on the chance of an extra seed dropping but almost every autofarmer I've seen bypasses that chance. Hell, even mods that add "right click to harvest" mechanics don't ever drop extra seeds. Only breaking the crops does it.
In any pack that doesn't also use Agricraft, getting more seeds seems to be a real challenge.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 02:51

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Vib Rib posted:

What's good autofarming for Mystic Agriculture crops? A huge part of the mod seems to be based on the chance of an extra seed dropping but almost every autofarmer I've seen bypasses that chance. Hell, even mods that add "right click to harvest" mechanics don't ever drop extra seeds. Only breaking the crops does it.
In any pack that doesn't also use Agricraft, getting more seeds seems to be a real challenge.

In PO3 I'm just using an ender IO farming station for my non-Agricraft-juiced crops. If you give them a dark steel hoe and axe with a vibrant crystal, they never break and the station keeps them charged. They generate extra seeds just fine. I think the tier 6 seeds don't generate new seeds very much (if at all.) For those, I made a second crux and Agricrafted them to 10/10/10, then stuck em on an Industrial Foregoing plant gatherer. Use the gatherer, not the interactor -- the interactor just spews stuff all over the ground, while the harvester picks up the essence while leaving the seed on the crop sticks.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 02:59

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Vib Rib posted:

What's good autofarming for Mystic Agriculture crops? A huge part of the mod seems to be based on the chance of an extra seed dropping but almost every autofarmer I've seen bypasses that chance. Hell, even mods that add "right click to harvest" mechanics don't ever drop extra seeds. Only breaking the crops does it.
In any pack that doesn't also use Agricraft, getting more seeds seems to be a real challenge.

Cyclic farmer (harvester?) works with the basic mystic I know from ATM3, but I don't have cyclic+agricraft in a pack to test if they work together.

I mostly just cheat in a stack of fertilized essence after I get automation up because it's only needed for the watering cans and I'll be damned if I give a poo poo about "mod purity" when they hate automation so much.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 04:15

Hooplah: Jul 15, 2006

Vib Rib posted:

What's good autofarming for Mystic Agriculture crops? A huge part of the mod seems to be based on the chance of an extra seed dropping but almost every autofarmer I've seen bypasses that chance. Hell, even mods that add "right click to harvest" mechanics don't ever drop extra seeds. Only breaking the crops does it.
In any pack that doesn't also use Agricraft, getting more seeds seems to be a real challenge.

In my E2E world I have a phytogenic insolator from TE with an auxillary sieve upgrade. I don't really use it for autofarming, but the sieve gives it like a %10 chance to give an extra seed as byproduct, so I just give it a bunch of phytogrow and pipe the byproduct seeds back into it until it has a nice pile of seeds for my AA farmers.

Actually, AA farmers still get seeds back which can be replanted, but I think you need to move them back into the input slot manually.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 04:32

Inexplicable Humblebrag: Sep 20, 2003

Is the IE cloche still insanely good or was it nerfed?

# ? Feb 21, 2019 11:47

Vib Rib: Jul 23, 2007; God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss
🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

Thanks for the advice. I'll look into seeing which of these mods the pack I'm playing actually has.

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

Is the IE cloche still insanely good or was it nerfed?

Still good but doesn't dupe Mystical Agriculture seeds.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 12:40

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/voxcpw/status/1098425469714731009

# ? Feb 21, 2019 12:40

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

Is the IE cloche still insanely good or was it nerfed?

It's still insanely good. Most mod packs use crafttweaker to nerf it, either by increasing the RF/t or by giving it a ridiculous recipe. It's also extremely unperformant, with a single cloche using up to 30 μs of tick time. If the input buffer gets full, it performs even more poorly.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 13:35

Vib Rib: Jul 23, 2007; God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss
🍖🍖😛🍖🍖

I don't understand how the cloche can have such bad performance. It's just a block with a timer, and when the timer runs out, it outputs an item. How unoptimized can you make that?

# ? Feb 21, 2019 13:37

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Vib Rib posted:

I don't understand how the cloche can have such bad performance. It's just a block with a timer, and when the timer runs out, it outputs an item. How unoptimized can you make that?

Apparently really unoptimized!

https://github.com/BluSunrize/ImmersiveEngineering/issues/2848#issuecomment-380922905 a shot of two cloches using 30 milliseconds of tick time each. For reference, a single minecraft tick contains 50 ms.

https://github.com/BluSunrize/ImmersiveEngineering/issues/3343 apparently they also send one server packet a tick

# ? Feb 21, 2019 13:43

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

java hobbyists own

# ? Feb 21, 2019 13:47

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Also, for reference, the thing on top of my screenshot there is a forestry multifarm for bog earth. It's at its maximum size, and investigating 440 blocks of area in the world for updates. It looks to be doing this several times a second, given how fast maturing bog earth is being replaced by fresh. Maybe every tick? I can't tell. Regardless, it's using no measurable tick time to operate.

God help me for praising Forestry, but numbers don't lie.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 13:56

McFrugal: Oct 11, 2003

I think the problem with the cloche is its fancy graphics. It constantly animates the plant growing, which must be expensive.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 19:39

Taffer: Oct 15, 2010

Truga posted:

java hobbyists own

lol you should check out the KSP thread and see how much c# hobbyists own. One mod that did nothing but change research orders annihilated performance, though the metrics to measure it aren't as good over there.

Hobbyists and performant code generally don't mix. Hell, a lot of the time even professionals and performant code don't mix. Most professionals don't work on performance-critical applications, though they at least can usually avoid pitfalls of memory leaks and poor architecture.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 19:59

Fantastic Alice: Jan 23, 2012

Taffer posted:

lol you should check out the KSP thread and see how much c# hobbyists own. One mod that did nothing but change research orders annihilated performance, though the metrics to measure it aren't as good over there.

Hobbyists and performant code generally don't mix. Hell, a lot of the time even professionals and performant code don't mix. Most professionals don't work on performance-critical applications, though they at least can usually avoid pitfalls of memory leaks and poor architecture.

I really have to question how such a mod would tank performance. Or why it even got released in that state.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 20:18

mehall: Aug 27, 2010

xanthan posted:

I really have to question how such a mod would tank performance. Or why it even got released in that state.

"Worked fine for me"

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:40

Rocko Bonaparte: Mar 12, 2002; Every day is Friday!

The worst I ever heard for Minecraft modding still was one that would crash since it had too much code in a single function. There is a limit to how much byte code you can put in a single Java function. I remember reading about it in a previous life doing Java performance analysis work and just thought it was quaint... until somebody actually did it.

I don't know what the code was and I would assume it was generated source from something, but I have also seen people not even good at procedural programming create God functions that take a command parameter that would send the code off on a different path. So there are some people that really will put all their eggs in one basket.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:17

Falcon2001: Oct 10, 2004; Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.; Pillbug

Vib Rib posted:

What's good autofarming for Mystic Agriculture crops? A huge part of the mod seems to be based on the chance of an extra seed dropping but almost every autofarmer I've seen bypasses that chance. Hell, even mods that add "right click to harvest" mechanics don't ever drop extra seeds. Only breaking the crops does it.
In any pack that doesn't also use Agricraft, getting more seeds seems to be a real challenge.

In Project Ozone 3 I'm using the Plant Interactor from Industrial Foregoing, and for at least the inferium seeds I'm getting extras - (Tier 1-5 only, weirdly enough. My Tier 6 doesn't seem to spit out an extra ever, so I'm assuming that's a bug or config decision.)

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:49

Gwyneth Palpate: Jun 7, 2010; Do you want your breadcrumbs highlighted?

~SMcD

Falcon2001 posted:

In Project Ozone 3 I'm using the Plant Interactor from Industrial Foregoing, and for at least the inferium seeds I'm getting extras - (Tier 1-5 only, weirdly enough. My Tier 6 doesn't seem to spit out an extra ever, so I'm assuming that's a bug or config decision.)

Yeah, I think the Tier 6 seeds specifically don't drop extras. I've had them going for a while and never gotten a second. However, if you want more, just slap it on an agricraft crop stick and have it crossbreed onto an adjacent pair of sticks (with the horizontal ones added.) Boom, more seeds.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:03

dragonshardz: May 2, 2017

Gwyneth Palpate posted:

It's still insanely good. Most mod packs use crafttweaker to nerf it, either by increasing the RF/t or by giving it a ridiculous recipe. It's also extremely unperformant, with a single cloche using up to 30 μs of tick time. If the input buffer gets full, it performs even more poorly.

Vib Rib posted:

I don't understand how the cloche can have such bad performance. It's just a block with a timer, and when the timer runs out, it outputs an item. How unoptimized can you make that?

It's not an optimization issue, it's an issue with the basic assumptions behind the code which makes cloches go. This also applies to machines like the Material Stonework Factory!

These machines are coded in a way which assumes that whatever they are outputting into will always be able to accept their output - for example, conveyors don't have a storage limit. The issue arises when they are connected to a box which has a limit and cannot accept any excess. It's fairly simple to work around; just have your cloches et. al. send their output(s) directly to a voided storage drawer/storage block/etc.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:14

bigperm: Jul 10, 2001; some obscure reference

If we are talking about ridiculous unoptimized minecraft code then let's all look at gregtech pipes.

"Gregtech 5 posted:

Four times per second, the Fluid Pipe will attempt to transfer half of its stored fluid to adjacent tanks or pipes, spread evenly among all possible outputs. Filling a row of machines with Fluid pipes will fill half into the first machine, a quarter into the second machine and so on. Fluids can 'slosh around' in pipe runs, significantly reducing their effective throughput.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:45

McFrugal: Oct 11, 2003

bigperm posted:

If we are talking about ridiculous unoptimized minecraft code then let's all look at gregtech pipes.

That's not a description of code? That's just how they work. They slosh. It's badly designed rather than badly coded.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 03:02

Harik: Sep 9, 2001; From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars; Plaster Town Cop

Gwyneth Palpate posted:

Yeah, I think the Tier 6 seeds specifically don't drop extras. I've had them going for a while and never gotten a second. However, if you want more, just slap it on an agricraft crop stick and have it crossbreed onto an adjacent pair of sticks (with the horizontal ones added.) Boom, more seeds.

Even faster, take cuttings from one. Cuttings have a chance not to take, seeds always plant. There's a "bug" where the crop analyzer turns unidentified cuttings into seeds so you can basically instantly grow as many as you want.

McFrugal posted:

That's not a description of code? That's just how they work. They slosh. It's badly designed rather than badly coded.

It's adorable that you think the "sloshing" was designed rather than him doing it idiotically in code and never fixing it and slapping "feature" on it.

E: while I'm at it, I hate most piping systems because multi-output-type is a thing and only one or two mods let you designate which output goes to which side. luv2 smash my entire piping system because I get a fart of the wrong fluid in.

Harik fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Feb 22, 2019

# ? Feb 22, 2019 03:31

bigperm: Jul 10, 2001; some obscure reference

McFrugal posted:

That's not a description of code? That's just how they work. They slosh. It's badly designed rather than badly coded.

Yeah the insane sloshing mechanism is a design choice, not a limitation of the developer.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 04:15

Rocko Bonaparte: Mar 12, 2002; Every day is Friday!

I was more fixated on the "four times a second" but I have also been conditioned to carpet bomb polling loops wherever I find them.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 04:23

Hooplah: Jul 15, 2006

I kinda like GT pipes because at least they're intuitive. Mekanism cables now, those things make no sense to me. Getting more throughput for a longer cable is completely unintuitive.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 04:24

Falcon2001: Oct 10, 2004; Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.; Pillbug

Thermal Dynamics forever. EnderIO conduits look like crap and are fiddly as hell, Mekanisms have been weirdly buggy basically forever, and whatever GregTech thing you're talking about it nuts too. Buildcraft can screw right off.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 04:32

Potsticker: Jan 14, 2006

Falcon2001 posted:

Thermal Dynamics forever.

For piping, this is my choice.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 04:34

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# ? May 2, 2024 09:12

McFrugal: Oct 11, 2003

Harik posted:

It's adorable that you think the "sloshing" was designed rather than him doing it idiotically in code and never fixing it and slapping "feature" on it.

E: while I'm at it, I hate most piping systems because multi-output-type is a thing and only one or two mods let you designate which output goes to which side. luv2 smash my entire piping system because I get a fart of the wrong fluid in.

Look, greg may be an idiot but you're still not describing bad code. Code is bad when it does stuff you don't want, or takes too long to do what you want. Greg wants it to work this way, probably to emulate some sort of pressure mechanic since pipes have better throughput if the input can keep up with the output. He probably thinks the sloshing is realistic since it only happens when the pipes are partially filled.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 05:13

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