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Nfcknblvbl posted:small engines with turbos have so much efficiency loss at high rpms cause they have to inject extra fuel to prevent engine knock. engineers have to come up with clever ways to deal with all the extra heat, like the kia stinger has an exhaust valve with sodium inside so it won't ignite the fuel too early This is old, very old. Sodium filled valves are common on turbocharged gas motors since the 80s at least. My Audi 10v 5 cylinder turbo motors had sodium valves in '86. And the sodium is actually to help the exhaust valve stand up to the exhaust gas temps and not fail. Combat Theory posted:E: my heritage is with ultra high RPM naturally aspirated engines so if you just ask for what I would want to see, it would be exactly that. I'm a turbo fanatic, partially because I'm a diesel nutcase, but partially because turbocharging was a must to get the little Audi 5 cylinders to perform well, running the KKK K24 and K26 turbochargers on the gassers, and the K16 on the diesels, and turbochargers are easy to maintain, and aftermarket ECUs has steadily become more open source, letting you have tight control over your engine vintage engine with modern controllers But I fully agree with the second statement, the first thing I did after buying my Q7 TDI was rip the plastic engine cover off. Because I want to see/hear the engine. My wife was disappointed, because she expected the TDI to sound like my other VW Diesels, and when she was greeted with a quiet engine, she said it was unnerving and asked what we'd have to do to make the motor more vocal. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 18:23
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Combat Theory posted:E: my heritage is with ultra high RPM naturally aspirated engines so if you just ask for what I would want to see, it would be exactly that. 
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Feb 20, 2019 18:57
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Shame Boy posted:sorry people like me's demand for "box to get me to work that i super don't want to think about any more than i have to" is ruining stuff so bad you're making the jump to the murder brown people industry Part of the problem of designing rolling sofas is that you end up stuffing them with hundreds of kilograms of practically unnecessary tech, sound deadening, NVH insulation and automation that eats into the development cost. But you not only sacrifice weight saving but also leaps of reliability which ends up with increased devaluation, aging and reduction of lifetime, hurting the consumers wallet and the environment triple times without any measurable benefit past driving an overweight, brick wall aerodynamic, rolling sofa. I respect people's choice in doing so, but throwaway cars with tons of unnecessary poo poo aren't helping any cause of moving forward toward sustainable mobility. And I frankly think it's part way irresponsible given the enormous amount of (non recyclable) resources and energy that go into automotive products E: I don't really know about the murder brown people part. Making more powerful engines for military equipment that use less fuel and provide cleaner emissions doesn't automatically translate to something bad in my book. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 19:08
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Combat Theory posted:Part of the problem of designing rolling sofas is that you end up stuffing them with hundreds of kilograms of practically unnecessary tech, sound deadening, NVH insulation and automation that eats into the development cost. But you not only sacrifice weight saving but also leaps of reliability which ends up with increased devaluation, aging and reduction of lifetime, hurting the consumers wallet and the environment triple times without any measurable benefit past driving an overweight, brick wall aerodynamic, rolling sofa. i mean yeah i intentionally get the car with the least dumb ~infotainment~ features because i agree that's worthless distraction (and i super do not want my car to connect to the internet, jesus christ how do people think that's at all a good idea). i don't want a rolling sofa, i want... a box that reliably goes places, but i guess this isn't really what the market wants either  though what do you mean about reducing reliability, are you talking specifically about the computerization? because when i got my current car i asked on the forums if i had to do any weird incantations or rituals to get it to last a long time other than the normal maintenance schedule and they mentioned that even crummy cars are pretty reliable in general today compared to the past, and i should be good
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Feb 20, 2019 19:23
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infernal machines posted:in defence of elron musk: arstechnica posts leslie_nielsen_nothingtoseehere.gif Gentle reminder that this newest departure follows this... Arstechnica, without any curiosity or skepticism, also posted:Last September, Chief Accounting Officer Dave Morton announced that he was leaving after less than a month on the job. ... which is extremely unusual and suspicious and I wonder how big PwC's audit fees are to ignore the fact that this company stinks to high heaven.
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Feb 20, 2019 19:27
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Combat Theory posted:E: I don't really know about the murder brown people part. Making more powerful engines for military equipment that use less fuel and provide cleaner emissions doesn't automatically translate to something bad in my book. eh i've got a pretty hard line when it comes to the military or defense companies and feel that helping them makes someone complicit in their crimes. i can kinda let it pass for people who enlist because it's literally their only option for a job and healthcare in a lot of the US, but if you're at the level of making engines for machines that are specifically designed to kill people in the most effective ways possible then... yeah i mean good for you if you can live with it i guess maybe you can design engines for like, transport vehicles or something that's not directly meant for killing?e: and yeah i remember you're in Germany but i'm sure either us or our PMC's will buy plenty of whatever you build anyway 
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Feb 20, 2019 19:32
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Shame Boy posted:eh i've got a pretty hard line when it comes to the military or defense companies and feel that helping them makes someone complicit in their crimes. i can kinda let it pass for people who enlist because it's literally their only option for a job and healthcare in a lot of the US, but if you're at the level of making engines for machines that are specifically designed to kill people in the most effective ways possible then... yeah we are all complicit
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Feb 20, 2019 19:37
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Lightbulb Out posted:we are all complicit oh yeah absolutely, my job definitely helps global capitalism and my taxes pay for the war machines, i just feel like maybe you can try not to directly help in ways you don't absolutely have to?
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Feb 20, 2019 19:39
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the thing with newer cars is they're lower maintenance but when anything breaks its a lot more expensive and difficult to repair because of all the newer complexities and in some cases consolidations like when the ABS module in my old civic failed it was going to be $1000+ just for the part because the whole ABS/VSA/everthing-else-you-program-into-a-braking-and-wheelspeed-system, the computer and solenoids/etc were one nissin unit that had to be replace in its entirety -- though i'm sure some engineers like the modularity of that i feel like the last time i was reading about valvetronic it was still just a prototype thing so its wild that it became real but yeah lots of car tech is all about low/midrange because thats where people spend most of their time and its just getting more wacky and complex and expensive towards the top end; i remember when you could pick up vtec killer kits for S2000s because there's no point to having that system if you're building a race car and it just detracts from things
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Feb 20, 2019 19:39
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Shame Boy posted:oh yeah absolutely, my job definitely helps global capitalism and my taxes pay for the war machines, i just feel like maybe you can try not to directly help in ways you don't absolutely have to? there's just not that many degrees of separation between your work and the imperial status quo, especially if you work in tech
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Feb 20, 2019 19:41
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Shame Boy posted:i mean yeah i intentionally get the car with the least dumb ~infotainment~ features because i agree that's worthless distraction (and i super do not want my car to connect to the internet, jesus christ how do people think that's at all a good idea). i don't want a rolling sofa, i want... a box that reliably goes places, but i guess this isn't really what the market wants either I wanted to write "automation reduces reliability" but that's a dangerous and incorrect statement. There's an optimum amount of automation for a given period of technology that maximizes reliability and we currently exceed that in the automotive world on many fronts. Fuel injection is better than carburetors nowadays, that's a universally agreed statement. It's offering superior results in every way with less parts, less service cost and less chance of something going wrong. Air bags are better than no air bags, alloy wheels are better than steelies, disk brakes are better than drums etc. The same doesn't hold true for other technologies we field and it certainly does not hold true for comfort automation like automatic transmissions (specially DSGs), fuel stratisfied combustion, gasoline direct injection (the emissions alone on the last 2 are killers), all wheel drives and the plethora of short lived engine tech additions to the gasoline engine that I mentioned before. Furthermore these automations, if they are affecting the actual driving of the vehicle, are all optimized for the government test cycles, NEFZ or the more modern WLTC and those frankly have nothing to do with everyday driving. WLTC is better than NEFZ in that regard but still... As Iospace mentioned they hardly hit anything above 4500 in everyday driving. That's twice as much as any modern engine runs in NEFZ. The everyday driving region is frankly uncharted territory for the modern engine when it comes to optimization for efficiency and emissions and will always take a secondary role behind test cycle optimization. That for example is one of the things that feel outright wrong about this for me. I know the products I design could be better, but because some people high up in the industry are very in bed with some people in power we get this contraption of a test cycle to optimize for, whereas for military applications for example you do 400h NATO cycles that are the friggin mount everest of engine making and you can be sure when your engine passes it will excell in normal use. You can be proud of your work there and you don't have to try to hide your actual optimizations for the consumer usage behind some graphs that plot a 0.05 percent improvement in WLTC. E: proud as an engineer. I know it's kinda off putting when I use these statements for military tech and I'm sorry for that. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 19:44
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guys did you know tesla's cost-saving lovely interiors are *actually* the wave of the future?
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Feb 20, 2019 19:46
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luxury manufacturers not included in the faux movement: * Every marque that's actually a luxury auto maker and not the high-end brand of a normie carmaker
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Feb 20, 2019 19:47
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:man this thread suddenly got really informative. struggling for purpose with tesla's demise imminent i presume so much nicer than train chat for sure. can someone explain the significance of that inventory json leak thing? like, they have cars they haven't sold yet. ok. more than we expected? old ones that have been languishing in a lot for a long time? ones they said publicly they didn't have? idgi
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Feb 20, 2019 19:53
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Combat Theory posted:I wanted to write "automation reduces reliability" but that's a dangerous and incorrect statement. There's an optimum amount of automation for a given period of technology that maximizes reliability and we currently exceed that in the automotive world on many fronts. ah makes sense, and that does sound like a very frustrating set of bullshit design goals yeah
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Feb 20, 2019 20:02
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:so much nicer than train chat for sure. can someone explain the significance of that inventory json leak thing? like, they have cars they haven't sold yet. ok. more than we expected? old ones that have been languishing in a lot for a long time? ones they said publicly they didn't have? idgi it's just another little peek behind the curtain, one that seems to validate the skeptics who say Elon pumped out a big batch of cars last year that nobody wants to buy
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Feb 20, 2019 20:03
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:so much nicer than train chat for sure. can someone explain the significance of that inventory json leak thing? like, they have cars they haven't sold yet. ok. more than we expected? old ones that have been languishing in a lot for a long time? ones they said publicly they didn't have? idgi you can now track with some accuracy the exact degree to which they've hosed themselves by trying to hit arbitrary production targets instead of building cars people actually ordered. hint: if you don't have a dealer network, don't build massive vehicle inventory, because you have no way to sell them.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:04
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Endless Mike posted:guys did you know tesla's cost-saving lovely interiors are *actually* the wave of the future? Nice! My Dodge Caliber is ahead of the curve!
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Feb 20, 2019 20:05
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Combat Theory posted:I wanted to write "automation reduces reliability" but that's a dangerous and incorrect statement. There's an optimum amount of automation for a given period of technology that maximizes reliability and we currently exceed that in the automotive world on many fronts. automatic transmissions are a fine and good form of automation, and are not inherently unreliable, especially the type of cvt "auto" found in hybrids dsgs are from the racing world and sold as a desirable feature in performance vehicles, not some cloying development of the automotive sofas you've been complaining about. maybe you don't like them but they don't seem to fit your thesis stratified combustion / gdi i don't know much about, but do not seem to be automation issues awd is not automation in any way, provides specific benefits in return for the increased mechanical complexity, and is offered in specific markets where those benefits are either actually relevant or relevant for marketing purposes basically what i'm saying is there seem to be a lot of things not quite thought through in you're posting like, i have no doubt you're competent in your field, but you seem to be unable to see the forest for the trees when it comes to anything that doesn't fit your personal taste for roaring flamebelching roadhugging monsters also having done time in the defense contractor world and having been much happier since i got out: do not go into that industry for the love of cthulu nooooooooo save yourself before it's too late
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Feb 20, 2019 20:16
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lancemantis posted:luxury manufacturers not included in the faux movement: this was specifically about the model s, and even the high-end brands offer real leather on their $75k cars. hell, it's standard on a genesis
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Feb 20, 2019 20:23
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Endless Mike posted:guys did you know tesla's cost-saving lovely interiors are *actually* the wave of the future? this is actually true though, bmw and mb have been putting vinyl in more and more cars https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/are-vinyl-seats-more-popular-bmw-or-mercedes-benz-vehicles (still somewhat uncommon in bmws )
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Feb 20, 2019 20:25
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BobHoward posted:automatic transmissions are a fine and good form of automation, and are not inherently unreliable, especially the type of cvt "auto" found in hybrids yeah i mixed up automation with general tech, sorry. some clarifications on automatic transmissions, CVTs are very rare in this hemisphere so automatic transmissions here are for example the ZF 8 Speed which is good but very complicated for what it does, or the DSG wave that was over here indeed intended to replace the torque converter automatic, because DSG are much, much cheaper to make. The DSG got blown to smitherines in its first value use as a twin dry clutch DSG (there was the whole DSG taxi fiasco that sparked the re investment within VW back to torque converter automatics) again you are correct that i mixed up too many things in my OP and should have seperated them between general automation and automotive complication (which is the majority of stuff i post) also nothing wrong with proper AWD, but i have seen one too many haldex clutch abominations that result in an extra 200 KG of vehicle mass without any proper torque splitting or traction benefits.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:26
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Endless Mike posted:this was specifically about the model s, and even the high-end brands offer real leather on their $75k cars. hell, it's standard on a genesis if hyundai is making better detailed luxury cars than you...
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Feb 20, 2019 20:29
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infernal machines posted:if hyundai is making better detailed luxury cars than you... elon musk!
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Feb 20, 2019 20:31
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i really wanna try out one of them Hyundai hydrogen cars, but drat they are expensive.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:32
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Combat Theory posted:i really wanna try out one of them Hyundai hydrogen cars, but drat they are expensive. Just "test drive" one.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:40
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gschmidl posted:Just "test drive" one. if i go into a hyundai dealership this year ill probs end up with a new car and thats not planned before 2020. drat you I30 fastback. why you have to be so sexy.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:41
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this is the car future that I crave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDSkFQEOjo
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Feb 20, 2019 20:42
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hobbesmaster posted:this is actually true though, bmw and mb have been putting vinyl in more and more cars you'll note that article specifically notes that every car mentioned also has leather as an option (and the vast majority of buyers purchase it over vinyl). tesla does not even have it as an option. vinyl seats are "luxury" insofar as they aren't fabric. (and i'd much prefer fabric over vinyl)
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Feb 20, 2019 20:50
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is there anyone that's tried vinyl and /hasn't/ thought that fabric is preferable?
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Feb 20, 2019 20:53
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psiox posted:is there anyone that's tried vinyl and /hasn't/ thought that fabric is preferable? brokebrain bazingas [–]Blind_at_Sea [score hidden] 8 minutes ago Jag/Land Rover is making it standard. All others have it as an option and a few have stated it will become future standard. Both previous cars have had vegan. Difference between cheap stuff and high end. Easier to maintain and I prefer the feel
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Feb 20, 2019 20:56
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lmbo I have a jacket I like made of 'vegan' leather and it's neat but I can't imagine how awful it'd be to sit on during a hot summer
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Feb 20, 2019 20:57
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where the hell are the cars with the denim interiors jars
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Feb 20, 2019 20:58
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i too like to drive, sitting in a condensation of various body fluids. E: psiox posted:where the hell are the cars with the denim interiors 
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Feb 20, 2019 20:58
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psiox posted:is there anyone that's tried vinyl and /hasn't/ thought that fabric is preferable? They can make a "fabric" out of Mylar, which allows you to have rear end warmers in fabric seats.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:59
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psiox posted:where the hell are the cars with the denim interiors ur about 45 years too late my dude.
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Feb 20, 2019 20:59
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Combat Theory posted:E: I don't really know about the murder brown people part. Making more powerful engines for military equipment that use less fuel and provide cleaner emissions doesn't automatically translate to something bad in my book. Combat Theory posted:if i go into a hyundai dealership this year ill probs end up with a new car and thats not planned before 2020. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 20:59
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 i kinda like that look on everything but the dash/wheel, which makes me suspect brainworms
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Feb 20, 2019 21:03
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what hath man wrought?
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Feb 20, 2019 21:05
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evil_bunnY posted:Is your last name von braun or something They offer a 10 year warranty on their engines here, which is 7-8 years more than anything we here dare to do. They are also some of the last ones to do real harsh endurance testing of 500 Nürburgring Laps for all their models. Thats some of the determination to quality i miss in this industry. but im not moving my lazy rear end to Korea and their testing devision is filled to the brim with disenfranchised BMW engineers already. if i get von braun as a last name i want a spanish first name. Carlos von Braun
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Feb 20, 2019 21:07
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