|
NikkolasKing posted:I watched WCW in '99 when I was little and I do remember Revolution. everyone except Asya left WCW when Russo got sent home and Sullivan hired during the fiasco that was Souled Out 2000 (originally there were 8 people looking for their release, but WCW managed to convince Rey and Kidman to stay and Konnam got suspended for a few months and came back to WCW) Douglas didnt want to go back to WWF after his last stint, and thought the group was going to negotiate with ECW or possibly Mexico or Japaneae promotions. So of course, while they were planning this, Malenko started negotiating with WWF to get himself, Benoit, Saturn, and Guerrero into the company and cut Douglas out of negotiations. He stopped returning Douglas's phone calls after someone tipped Douglas off what Malenko was doing. Douglas eventually started cold calling the hotel in Stamford, Conneticut qhere Malenko was staying and got put through to his room and cursed him out. Of course once he was out of the package deal, Douglas was left high and dry and slinked back to WCW and for suspended for a few months
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:11 |
|
|
exploded mummy posted:everyone except Asya left WCW when Russo got sent home and Sullivan hired during the fiasco that was Souled Out 2000 (originally there were 8 people looking for their release, but WCW managed to convince Rey and Kidman to stay and Konnam got suspended for a few months and came back to WCW) I always hear people say Douglas is a whiny no talent punk but it does sound like he was genuinely hosed over at a couple points. That sucks to hear. Dean Malenko might be a robot but apparently he's a shrewd, dickish robot. Not even like his WWF run was anything. Even Saturn and Moppy got over more than Malenkon did, nevermind World Champions Benoit and Eddie. And I wonder why Asya was even with Revolution. Christi Wolf had a nice, distinct look and maybe not much else but taht was enough for me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:20
|
|
|
And then Douglas got his dream feud with Flair and it was loving terrible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
Shane Douglas was really banged up by that point. After getting hurt in 98 he was never the same
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I always hear people say Douglas is a whiny no talent punk but it does sound like he was genuinely hosed over at a couple points. That sucks to hear. a lot of popular exposure to Douglas is when his career was at his low, namely his WWF run as Dean Douglas and in late WCW when his body was basically shot His stuff in ECW in '96 - '98 was really good though
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
exploded mummy posted:a lot of popular exposure to Douglas is when his career was at his low, namely his WWF run as Dean Douglas and in late WCW when his body was basically shot I mean if you like cursing the promos are fine but his matches still sucked.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2019 22:57
|
|
|
Wrong thread. Posted in the Wrestling questions thread.
Nystral fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 21, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 03:32
|
|
|
i was also a franchise mark when i was younger
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 03:43
|
|
|
How has someone here not bought that raft already
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 03:48
|
|
|
Mr. Carlisle posted:How has someone here not bought that raft already People have, and the high prices the first couple went for made others think they could get the same money.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 03:59
|
|
|
RealFoxy posted:It's still kinda funny to me that ICP who look and act like the grossest music artists in the industry say that their worst experiences were around wrestlers, especially Shaggy saying he never saw pills or heroin until he got into wrestling. also that wrestlers considered ICP the best promoters because they pay well and on time
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 04:18
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I always hear people say Douglas is a whiny no talent punk but it does sound like he was genuinely hosed over at a couple points. That sucks to hear. They could have done something with Malenko that didn't rely on his personality, but they made him a ladykiller and with the best will in the world, that's a hard sell. He was fabulous in that six man against Too Cool. I still remember him in that. And the crowd hated him
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 08:25
|
|
|
Shane Douglas’ run as ECW champ was good in the sense that he made the belt seem like it was the most important thing to him in his promos but he loved to say his opponents full name every 7 seconds as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 09:21
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbgAbhHSseM
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 10:05
|
|
|
Would be a lot more impressive if ot rhymed or had any kind of pentameter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
oldpainless posted:Shane Douglas’ run as ECW champ was good in the sense that he made the belt seem like it was the most important thing to him in his promos but he loved to say his opponents full name every 7 seconds as well. My fave Douglas in ECW moment was him shaking one of the Pitbull's neckbraces while the crowd chanted obscenities at Francine. He could have whipped out a gun and shot someone while the Arena crowd was too busy hooting at Francine's rear end. I remember being kind of excited in WCW for him because he carried himself like a big deal but at that point WCW was pretty terrible to me. Even the cruisers weren't as cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:09
|
|
|
coconono posted:I remember being kind of excited in WCW for him because he carried himself like a big deal but at that point WCW was pretty terrible to me. Even the cruisers weren't as cool. Nah, the cruisers were the one good thing going for WCW at that point. They were at their best right around the time WCW overall was at its worst. At one point they had AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio Jr, Billy Kidman, Shane Helms, the Young Dragons, and an entire federation's worth of luchadores and they basically had the first hour of the show to themselves. They had a cruiser tag division. OK maybe I'm remembering this all being better than it was, but I know it was pretty much the thing that kept me watching WCW at the time. And of course WWE did nothing with any of those guys because, cruiserweights.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
rujasu posted:Nah, the cruisers were the one good thing going for WCW at that point. They were at their best right around the time WCW overall was at its worst. At one point they had AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio Jr, Billy Kidman, Shane Helms, the Young Dragons, and an entire federation's worth of luchadores and they basically had the first hour of the show to themselves. They had a cruiser tag division. OK maybe I'm remembering this all being better than it was, but I know it was pretty much the thing that kept me watching WCW at the time. And of course WWE did nothing with any of those guys because, cruiserweights. the cruisers were more fleshed out but it wasn't quite up to the Psicosis and Liger doing a cold 15 minutes and leaving the crowd a sweaty excited mess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:37
|
|
|
rujasu posted:Nah, the cruisers were the one good thing going for WCW at that point. They were at their best right around the time WCW overall was at its worst. At one point they had AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio Jr, Billy Kidman, Shane Helms, the Young Dragons, and an entire federation's worth of luchadores and they basically had the first hour of the show to themselves. They had a cruiser tag division. OK maybe I'm remembering this all being better than it was, but I know it was pretty much the thing that kept me watching WCW at the time. And of course WWE did nothing with any of those guys because, cruiserweights. you're attempting to cram discrete highlights of like 5 years into one age and it never happened Cruiserweights really lost a lot of that opening hour by the end of 1998. Most luchadors were out of the company by 2000 die to cost cutting measures, and all were gone short of Rey, Konnan, and Juvi by the April 2000 reset 3 Count was only a thing starting early 2000, and the Jung Dragons were also a thing starting in March 2000. AJ Styles was only around for the last 2 months in 2001
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:45
|
|
|
I don't think WCW in '99 was dead or terrible yet. Then again, I like Sid so I don't have the best taste. Even still, what people showed up seemed excited for stuff like Sid vs. Goldberg. They did cheer Sting when he turned heel though so maybe that's a bad sign. The Filthy Animals were over. I remember distinctly thinking when I saw StarrCade '98 that Kidman could be a star. I apparently wasn't alone in that and while it was Rey who want on to be a legend, they were all popular IIRC. I dunno, was it really dead and buried before Russo came in?
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I don't think WCW in '99 was dead or terrible yet. Then again, I like Sid so I don't have the best taste. Even still, what people showed up seemed excited for stuff like Sid vs. Goldberg. They did cheer Sting when he turned heel though so maybe that's a bad sign. The Filthy Animals were over. I remember distinctly thinking when I saw StarrCade '98 that Kidman could be a star. I apparently wasn't alone in that and while it was Rey who want on to be a legend, they were all popular IIRC. Sid owns.  Can't talk, couldn't work (much, he had the rare pretty decent match), but he still owned.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
Sid couldn’t talk for poo poo but he was still a hell of a promo anyway
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:58
|
|
|
sid did the best he could despite his love of baseball and half a brain
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
And WCW still could have been saved before Russo put the nails in the coffin. Would have been hard, and there might have bit a bad stretch where they were trying to push new people, but it could have been saved.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
rujasu posted:Nah, the cruisers were the one good thing going for WCW at that point. They were at their best right around the time WCW overall was at its worst. At one point they had AJ Styles, Rey Mysterio Jr, Billy Kidman, Shane Helms, the Young Dragons, and an entire federation's worth of luchadores and they basically had the first hour of the show to themselves. They had a cruiser tag division. OK maybe I'm remembering this all being better than it was, but I know it was pretty much the thing that kept me watching WCW at the time. And of course WWE did nothing with any of those guys because, cruiserweights. They were definitely not their best when WCW was at its worst, especially after Douglas came in. After Douglas came in they put the belt on Lenny Lane, then Evan Karagias, then Medusa. Then Prince Iaukea who was also trash. They fired all the luchadores long before AJ Styles came. AJ Styles was basically a factor in WCW for 2 months. And not much of one. Shane Helms got a serious push in the last 3 months. They had a cruiser tag division for 2 months. The first hour of Nitro was almost never all cruiserweights or close. There was as much nWo as there was cruiserweights, and maybe more. Hogan loved the unopposed hour. Hell by 1999 they were often putting no wrestling in it! And WCW was horrible in 99. The summer of 99 PPVs are unwatchable garbage. I love the Great Poop Feud of 99, but not because it's good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
To me, it got unwatchable when Russo became an onscreen character and people started using more insidery terms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I don't think WCW in '99 was dead or terrible yet. Then again, I like Sid so I don't have the best taste. Even still, what people showed up seemed excited for stuff like Sid vs. Goldberg. They did cheer Sting when he turned heel though so maybe that's a bad sign. The Filthy Animals were over. I remember distinctly thinking when I saw StarrCade '98 that Kidman could be a star. I apparently wasn't alone in that and while it was Rey who want on to be a legend, they were all popular IIRC. This is really, really big picture here, but when WCW's television declined, there were still good PPVs, when the PPVs declined the house show market was strong, then fans abandoned the house shows and it was just a death march from then on out. 1998 was a good year on paper, but they spent that year setting themselves up for collapse.The house show business was in freefall when Russo was signed and he just made things worse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
The entire main event scene of summer 1999 was based around people kidnapping women and trying to pour poop on their opponents.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:45
|
|
|
My favourite Malenko moment is in WCW when, after being verbally murdered for months and months by Chris Jericho, there is a Battle Royale for the Cruiserweight title. There are 2 left, Juvi and Cyclope(?), Juvi voluntaily eliminates himself, and then Jericho runs in to beat down the unsuspecting Cyclope. Who removes his mask to reveal it was Dean Malenko all along! The pop was huge! It's a pity he could never really get that again. Although I suspect that pop was more for the way that Jericho had single handedly built the feud on his own, with the cardboard cutouts, and "stinko-malenko" etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2019 23:54
|
|
|
I forgot to add that they had chased off Jericho and pretty well alienated the Radicalz by that point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:02
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:The entire main event scene of summer 1999 was based around people kidnapping women and trying to pour poop on their opponents. or hiring contortionists to pour poop on people
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
Let's say Hogan backs out at the last second and they send Sting out as the third man. How long does the nWo last? A couple months? I don't know that Sting could pull off that kind of heel position, and no way Hogan let's them beat him down longer than that. Maybe Ted sticks around as the mouthpiece, Eric joins with Hogan to make a face faction, I don't know. Speculation is worthless but fun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:24
|
|
|
exploded mummy posted:you're attempting to cram discrete highlights of like 5 years into one age and it never happened MassRafTer posted:They were definitely not their best when WCW was at its worst, especially after Douglas came in. After Douglas came in they put the belt on Lenny Lane, then Evan Karagias, then Medusa. Then Prince Iaukea who was also trash. Yeah: rujasu posted:OK maybe I'm remembering this all being better than it was You are totally right. That said, things were looking up in those last couple of months when Helms was the face of the division and they let him use a finishing move that really should have broken multiple people's necks. Anyway... Halloween Jack posted:A whole lot of stuff that is casually blamed on Russo happened long before he got anywhere near the product; that much is true. He signed in September 1999, and at that point they had already beaten the nWo to death, hosed up Sting vs. Hogan at Starrcade 1997, had Goldberg lose to Nash, screwed up with Warrior and Bret, did the Fingerpoke of Doom, the Ric Flair asylum angle, done expensive money-losing gimmicks like Road Wild, and countless lesser sins. WCW was in plenty of trouble before Russo showed up, and that's basically the reason they brought him in. But... I think it was salvageable? I don't know if it could have started turning a profit, but it certainly could have become a watchable product with someone else at the helm.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:25
|
|
|
rujasu posted:WCW was in plenty of trouble before Russo showed up, and that's basically the reason they brought him in. But... I think it was salvageable? I don't know if it could have started turning a profit, but it certainly could have become a watchable product with someone else at the helm. Admiral Joeslop posted:Speculation is worthless but fun. "You are Vince Russo in October 1999, Save WCW" is a fun speculative game; I hope people more knowledgeable than me will participate. I think you would actually need to replace Eric Bischoff, and then you'd need to fight tooth and nail to fire or demote a lot of people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Let's say Hogan backs out at the last second and they send Sting out as the third man. How long does the nWo last? A couple months? I don't know that Sting could pull off that kind of heel position, and no way Hogan let's them beat him down longer than that. Maybe Ted sticks around as the mouthpiece, Eric joins with Hogan to make a face faction, I don't know. it's impossible to know of course, but i think that either the NWO gets squashed by hogan by starrcade or the act is so hot hogan has to join up to try to take the glory for himself either way, it's dead
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Halloween Jack posted:and then you'd need to fight tooth and nail to fire or demote a lot of people. and since you are Vince Russo, you absolutely need to fire yourself
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 00:51
|
|
|
Aye Doc posted:and since you are Vince Russo, you absolutely need to fire yourself I think this is the big issue. It's a really neat thought experiment to consider how to fix WCW, but you're hobbled from the beginning if an integral part of that thought experiment is that you are Vince Russo. Plus, of course, you're also fighting those guaranteed contracts, big egos, whatever measure of creative control that Hogan had etc - a lot of what might have worked would have been kiboshed or undercut by other people in the organization. The best example of that is the way Hogan (outside of dumb stuff others ALSO did) ruined the climax of the year long Sting storyline. On paper you couldn't gently caress that angle up, but Hogan's ego got in the way. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 01:02
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I think this is the big issue. It's a really neat thought experiment to consider how to fix WCW, but you're hobbled from the beginning if an integral part of that thought experiment is that you are Vince Russo. I'd probably just try to storyboard a bunch of stuff for the people I have. Make it exciting but also consistent. Just good wrestling stuff with people who can do it. I would also probably modify what Bischoff did and have someone call Hogan a bald rear end in a top hat on a hot mic live in the ring. I don't think the lawsuit would lose me my job and I don't need to deal with the old gently caress anymore. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 01:12
|
|
|
MassRafTer posted:People have, and the high prices the first couple went for made others think they could get the same money. Well then I'm just happy with the knowledge that someone among us owns a Hulk Hogan inflatable raft
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 01:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 22:11 |
|
|
remusclaw posted:I'd probably just try to storyboard a bunch of stuff for the people I have. Make it exciting but also consistent. Just good wrestling stuff with people who can do it. I would also probably modify what Bischoff did and have someone call Hogan a bald rear end in a top hat on a hot mic live in the ring. I don't think the lawsuit would lose me my job and I don't need to deal with the old gently caress anymore. Or just send Hulk home. You're still paying him, but at least he isn't loving up the shows, too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 01:20
|
|