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PHIZ KALIFA posted:yeah weird how "society is run by lovely old fucks" suddenly gets a lot less narratively compelling when the designers age 20 years. looking forward to V40 leaning hard on "the Camarilla was right, neonates CANNOT be trusted." I mean, if I'm reading V5 right, isn't "fukkin young punks on my lawn" the major driving conflict, between the cam and anarchs? A lot of it seems driven by the goofy Second Inquisition.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:33
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Dawgstar posted:A lot of it seems driven by the goofy Second Inquisition. gonna play vampire Alex Jones and take down The Deep State with my powers of reason (Thaumaturgy)
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Feb 21, 2019 19:41
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If anything 2019 should really be an era with a market hungry for narratives about overthrowing the powerful rulers and taking for yourself what they've kept from you.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:43
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Dawgstar posted:A lot of it seems driven by the goofy Second Inquisition. This. There's all the speculation the Camarilla tried to sell everyone else out to governments and it brought the whole thing down on everyone's heads. So a chunk of Vampire society is pretty pissed about it.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:51
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Pope Guilty posted:If anything 2019 should really be an era with a market hungry for narratives about overthrowing the powerful rulers and taking for yourself what they've kept from you. Yes, but you don't want to alienate the old fans by having modern ideas. It's a tough act to balance but something you have to deal with when you have a fandom tied to a game that is tied to one era. They went to the length of trying to ban cell phones and smartphones in Elysium (because they can be tracked) to make it seem more like the 90s.
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Feb 21, 2019 22:31
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Pope and Nofather, you've both covered my points well; Now IS a ripe time for overthrowing the Old Guard, but I'm assuming given what's been posted ITT of Swedracula's goals that this new edition isn't aimed at new players so much as the same vanishingly small pool of "true players" that have been sealioning the fandom since forever. I'm certain it's come up before but it feels like a lot of the revisions this game has gone through is focused on curtailing a player's powergaming impulses to keep the sense of powerlessness and despair the devs think players want. I don't know if WoD has ever been true to the "punk" part of "gothic punk" because the minute you start tossing flesh cathedrals and thaumaturgy into the mix the impulse to go mad with power rises. Dunno why they'd make so many cool powers if we weren't supposed to play with them but I've been fairly open in my disregard for forced grimdarkness. Plus, it's hard to justify keeping to the shadows when you've got Cranky McBurgerhands breaking federal laws every time he opens his lie-hole on camera. I would have LOVED a game where the Antediluvians (or whatever) return and rule openly, and you're still a lowly neonate in the blood-soaked apocalypse your people worked so hard to achieve, still exploited and beaten down by those above you, only now you've got to protect what remains of your human network from bat-faced atrocities which can smell sin. Like, we're living in the White Nationalist Golden Age, and poo poo is still getting worse for them. The GOP's tax plan is raking poor and middle class families across the coals. "Your paradise is here but the conditions of your servitude have not changed" is a sentiment that echoes with a lot of the worst parts of the country now, and since this is a game about ~ravishing sexual assault~ written by a bunch of rapists they might as well cater to white nationalists while they're at it.
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Feb 21, 2019 23:07
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Pope Guilty posted:If anything 2019 should really be an era with a market hungry for narratives about overthrowing the powerful rulers and taking for yourself what they've kept from you. IDK if vampire can ever be that game though. At best it's the rich vs the super wealthy given that even a neonate vampire lives off the blood of the working class.
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Feb 21, 2019 23:08
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Im not sure why people are so down on the Second Inquisition stuff, it feels pretty logical that the War on Terror and the rise of the modern Surveillance State would result in something like it arising in the world of VtM
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Feb 21, 2019 23:40
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I admit that part of my problem is that (for me) imagining the Institutions of Power attacking the exploiters is like asking if my fists can beat up my elbows. One directs the other. The Cam (et al.) have spent centuries worming their influence through the halls of power and arranging matters to suit their needs. They're not some novel outside factor or intruder - many of the elders have their clammy hands on the backbone of modern financial and political institutions since day one. Despite the surveillance state and the expansion of police powers, cops do not generally shoot bankers, yeah? Or, to put it another way, how threatening do you think your government is to a cabal of hyper-wealthy people without superpowers?
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Feb 22, 2019 00:37
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Yeah. The surveillance state and the War on Terror haven't exactly turned the wealthy and elite lawbreakers into poor, hunted criminals (even if they might complain about bad press) they seem more secure than ever. Though I liked the idea that the Camarilla trying to snitch on people backfired, it seems a weird overlook that the NSA and whoever else are capable of secretly eliminating rich wealthy and established leaders of a shadowy government in America but not particularly concerned about a massive exodus of superpowered monsters heading to the Middle East. The feds have managed to grab a lot of potential terrorists or cut off people heading to join ISIS. It just seemed like there's a mix of trying to do progressive things while also clinging onto the past in ways that don't mix well. I think they failed to accurately tap into the zeitgeist of present times. As fun as it may be (and even if I'm not interested, I'm glad people are having fun with it), I don't think people are going to be waxing nostalgic over V5 20 years from now or thinking that it's particularly telling of the 2010s. Of course, it's not exactly an easy thing to do, for sure, entertainment media is littered with people who've utterly missed the mark. There's still like 7 more gamelines they can try to nail it with. nofather fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 00:47
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I guess my perspective is less that the Camarilla and Second Inquisition are both part of a contiguous system of oppression and more are competing conspiracies jockeying for control of the levers of global power. Basically Im just imagining the Bourbons vs the Hapsburgs but for global capitalism instead of european monarchy.
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Feb 22, 2019 00:54
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nofather posted:Yeah. The surveillance state and the War on Terror haven't exactly turned the wealthy and elite lawbreakers into poor, hunted criminals (even if they might complain about bad press) they seem more secure than ever. basically the modern world has destroyed the dignity of the wealthy, but done absolutely nothing to their actual, like, wealth and power
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Feb 22, 2019 00:55
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nofather posted:I think they failed to accurately tap into the zeitgeist of present times. As fun as it may be (and even if I'm not interested, I'm glad people are having fun with it), I don't think people are going to be waxing nostalgic over V5 20 years from now or thinking that it's particularly telling of the 2010s. Of course, it's not exactly an easy thing to do, for sure, entertainment media is littered with people who've utterly missed the mark. There's still like 7 more gamelines they can try to nail it with. It is interesting that my favorite Vampire streaming shows go on about things pretty much business as usual. They don't make great hay of the SI or the Camarilla suddenly deciding not to use cellphones and are mostly indistinguishable to the stuff I used to play/run.
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Feb 22, 2019 01:28
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Is it even possible to decouple the right-wing bullshit from V5? I was super turned off by the "well actually this refugee child is a terrorist," the alt-right Brujah, and I don't even remember what else. As a disclaimer, I never got past the intro/ preview scenario. It was beyond tasteless to include gay nightclub victims on the anniversary of Pulse. I looked into V5 a bit more, but everything just kept getting worse. By the time someone rolled 1,4,8,8 I was loving DONE. It's like the default setting is a terrified white grandma's imaginary world after a diet of Fox News, or that of some edgy 13 year old on a YouTube radicalization algorithm. Are they going to let all this wither and then put a non-toxic V5.5 on shelves? How much of the incredibly blatant signaling made it into the final print?
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Feb 22, 2019 03:38
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Can I get some advice on stuff a new Mage can do with Spirit 3 even when there's not obviously many spirits around? Coaxing the Spirits acts like a ghetto version of Compelling a lot of the other gross arcana, which is nice, and they've decided to pick a big spooky darkness spirit in the form of a great bird as their familiar (not fettered to everything, just hanging out in Twilight), which is cool, but outside of that I dunno what there is. I guess you can run into the Shadow as a form of stealth, escape or otherwise reaching a place, but depending on how hostile I should be presenting the Shadow as, I dunno how well that works out for travellers. I saw an interesting homebrew spell that suggested being able to target the gauntlet itself and making it physical to block things or use it as handholds, for climbing but I'm not sure that's quite in the spirit of the arcanum.
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Feb 22, 2019 03:39
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I mean, if someone marks Spirit 3 on their character sheet at character creation they obviously want a story with lots of spirits in it, so maybe plan on leaning into that. Apart from that, Spirit as an Arcana is basically a set of tools for interacting with something that's halfway between an ecosystem and a royal court. Think of it as a social Arcana -- it's the magical equivalent of Contacts, Allies, etc. Dots in Arcana basically amount to an ever-growing degree of bargaining power and influence over spirits, culminating in the ability to create, destroy, and feed them. It lets you sort of get into the territory of being a "pet class", in RPG terms, but keep in mind that spirits also have a hierarchy of increasingly powerful spirits topped by literal gods, and they will notice if you start upsetting it.
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Feb 22, 2019 03:48
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I'm absolutely going to be making spirits a big feature, but even so they're not something that can always come up or be the baddie behind something. Channel Essence seems like a bit of a weird spell too in the sense that it channels Essence from an appropriate Resonant condition, but basically anything is a Resonant condition for some type of spirit, right? Unless you start inputting some kind of fluff restriction ("My swanky suit can only actually generate so much essence of swank per day") it seems like even Novices of Spirit can basically spray as much essence as they want into spirits they like - and if they have a familiar, be an infinite-mana machine, at least for themselves.
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Feb 22, 2019 04:06
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You definitely don't want spirits to be the baddie if you have a spirit mage. Well, maybe as an earlier story antagonist if the mage doesn't have a lot of Spirit dots and is still at 1 Gnosis. At a certain point they're going to be able to control spirits pretty easily, by that point you'll want to have moved on to something else. But a spirit mage should start bringing a little menagerie of spirits along with him, perhaps having multiple instances of the Familiar Merit (or one really useful one), maybe a Claimed as a retainer. nofather fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 04:38
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My group figured that Spirit as a cosmic principle represented emergent identity and Darwinian competition/propagation. Broadly, if you could intelligibly talk about "the spirit of" of something (the rules, an organization...) you could screw around with it whether or not there was such a thing as a Shadow or Gauntlet, so even in the oneiros of someone who doesn't believe in the spirit world you could use it to direct a mob or make an idea go viral or make a weapon deadlier.
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Feb 22, 2019 07:15
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Quick question -- a friend of mine was curious who the lead designer on Geist 2E was, and I'm pretty sure I remember them posting here, but I couldn't remember exactly who it was (or their actual name vs. my vague guess from among the OPP employees / freelancers who post here). I thought I'd check the backer preview, but it doesn't include any credits. Can anyone point me to that information? Or maybe would like to take the credit? 
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Feb 22, 2019 08:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Quick question -- a friend of mine was curious who the lead designer on Geist 2E was, and I'm pretty sure I remember them posting here, but I couldn't remember exactly who it was (or their actual name vs. my vague guess from among the OPP employees / freelancers who post here). I thought I'd check the backer preview, but it doesn't include any credits. Can anyone point me to that information? Or maybe would like to take the credit? Travis Stout, in this thread as Gimpinblack
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Feb 22, 2019 08:22
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Thanks!
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Feb 22, 2019 08:31
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Thanks! Hmm, odd that the KS preview didn't have the credits page, but yeah, I was the developer for Geist 2e. Was there something you wanted to ask, or just curious?
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Feb 22, 2019 08:38
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GimpInBlack posted:Hmm, odd that the KS preview didn't have the credits page, but yeah, I was the developer for Geist 2e. Was there something you wanted to ask, or just curious? Mostly just curiosity, but I also find it interesting to see if there are common threads between certain project leads or designers and certain mechanical flourishes -- for example, a bunch of games Rose Bailey worked on prominently feature elements where the GM is prompted to to play designer, like Interlocks in Demon or Kiths in Changeling 2E. Similarly if I like a particular game a lot it often makes sense to see what the people who worked on it have done, rather than just following a brand name or publisher.
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Feb 22, 2019 08:42
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Finally got my copy of Wr20 in the mail!
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Feb 22, 2019 19:13
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I'm reading through Distillations, and I notice many don't give a duration. Do they have an assumed duration in that case?
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Feb 22, 2019 20:40
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Which ones are you looking at? I flipped through my book at a few random distillations, and they all cite a Duration, usually scenelong.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:49
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Impossible Flesh and Resiliant Flesh off the top of my head.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:40
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Since, unless it says otherwise, you can make use of a Distillation as many times in a scene as you want once you've charged the Alembic to that level, the distinction between "it lasts for a scene" and "it applies only once per use" is nonexistent for those. It effectively lasts for a scene because it's reflexive, it doesn't require a roll, and you already charged it and don't have to repay the cost.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:48
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I Am Just a Box is correct. Those particular Distillations just last 'as long as the associated alembic is charged', which is functionally scene-long since your alembics ground out after a scene.
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Feb 23, 2019 01:18
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I Am Just a Box posted:Since, unless it says otherwise, you can make use of a Distillation as many times in a scene as you want once you've charged the Alembic to that level, the distinction between "it lasts for a scene" and "it applies only once per use" is nonexistent for those. It effectively lasts for a scene because it's reflexive, it doesn't require a roll, and you already charged it and don't have to repay the cost. Cool thanks.
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Feb 23, 2019 01:48
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My Mage game is going to a road game. What are good solutions for the PC's to gain Mana? Can a Hallo be mobile?
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Feb 24, 2019 21:17
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Soonmot posted:My Mage game is going to a road game. What are good solutions for the PC's to gain Mana? Can a Hallo be mobile? Blood Sacrifice.
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Feb 24, 2019 21:28
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You can really easily use a Fey Mount as a combat summon, I'm suddenly noticing. It starts off with 5/3/5 physical stats, 12 boxes of health, and a 2L 6dice attack. With the merit dots you can up its attack to 8 dice, 4L damage, 3/2 armor that provides cover for people riding it, the ability to take it outside the Hedge, or straight up 'it respawns when killed'. Lot of benefit for a handful of merit dots.
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Feb 24, 2019 21:29
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Soonmot posted:My Mage game is going to a road game. What are good solutions for the PC's to gain Mana? Can a Hallo be mobile? Pattern scouring is likely to be necessary, but as far as a mobile Hallow, you're the Storyteller, so can determine that for the game. Conceptually, that'd be pretty rare, because Hallows are meant to be the epitomes of their environment. Like a massive mountain summit or a deep, deep cave. You might represent a Hallow merit instead of a single place as a map of several different Hallows, as the merit represents access, not a physical place. Alternatively, they may have an artifact or keyed Iris that lets them go to this place to collect tass regularly. In the game I am running, the characters are on a sailing ship, which I intend to eventually develop a Hallow in the lazarette but only after some development by the cabal to manipulate the unusual leylines that cross the ocean that act more like "winds" than strict lines of power, though still geometric in nature. A more artificial Hallow like this, like an RV that has a ritual space that taps into ley lines like a mundane RV can plug in to charge its electric generator, is another idea, especially if they have some techne specialists.
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Feb 24, 2019 22:14
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Crasical posted:You can really easily use a Fey Mount as a combat summon, I'm suddenly noticing. I bet the Mounted Combat style would make it even more lethal.
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Feb 24, 2019 23:03
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Pattern scouring is the real go-to for getting mana before you're in a Legacy, because it's much faster than waiting for a Hallow to charge up and get you any reasonable amount of mana. A Spirit mage with a familiar also has as much mana as they feel like really, though I think they'll need someone with Prime on the team to actually share it out. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 00:32
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https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/02/25/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-sequel-might-be-sneaking-up-on-us-at-gdc/
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Feb 25, 2019 14:53
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UrbicaMortis posted:https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/02/25/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-sequel-might-be-sneaking-up-on-us-at-gdc/ reads like clickbait, not gonna get my hopes up
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Feb 25, 2019 14:59
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I started playing the ARG and the visuals are consistent with V5.
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Feb 25, 2019 15:06
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