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Hollismason posted:The dialogue in Exorcist 3 is so fantastic. That whole cast is legit great honestly, even all of the minor characters, every delivery is perfect. I love the scene where George C. Scott breaks down for a bit and the argument leading up to it. Also "Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you're an rear end in a top hat." 
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Feb 24, 2019 22:38
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My favorite nuance is that both the priest and him are trying to cheer the other up on the anniversary of their mutual friends death. Like their back and forth is so natural that you'd believe those two guys were life long friends. His scene where he screams " Shut your mouth" and breaks down is so sad. Like I legit can't believe this film wasn't better received.
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Feb 24, 2019 22:40
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It's enthralling to me. I can sort of understand why no one cared when it came out though. Exorcist II is insanely bad and was almost fifteen years old at that point. And in 1990 you were at this perfect intersection of action flicks, aliens, killer robots, and slashers being the things folks were getting hyped for. I almost wonder if it would have been better received if it came out after Silence of the Lambs instead of before. Regardless of their quality, you can see a similar lack of excitement for the supernatural serial killer in the 90s though, like way later in 1998 we got Fallen which is typically liked but was similarly poorly received when it came out. Does anyone outside of this thread even remember stuff like The First Power? I'm just really happy that over the years it's been reevaluated and new audiences have given it a chance because it's so drat good. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 23:01
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the only thing I am still a bit unsure of is the scene where the doctor is reciting his lines and has it written on a piece of paper. I don't think its ever explained.
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Feb 24, 2019 23:10
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That scene where George C. Scott is talking about the fish in his bathtub is so freaking good.
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Feb 24, 2019 23:12
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Hollismason posted:the only thing I am still a bit unsure of is the scene where the doctor is reciting his lines and has it written on a piece of paper. I don't think its ever explained. IIRC he was super nervous about being a potential suspect and there's an earlier scene where he's rehearsing what he's going to say as a red herring to make you think he was the one being possessed/or and doing the killings.
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Feb 24, 2019 23:30
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Yea that's what I figured it's just kind a quirky thing. There' the conversation where Gemini is talking to him and is like "Does the Dr help you get out.?"
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Feb 24, 2019 23:42
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Neo Rasa posted:
It feels like outside this thread and some parts of the horror community, no one remembers anything after five years or so, or written it off as something old and who cares about that stuff. It's like a warped version of goldfish memory.
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Feb 25, 2019 01:31
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Feb 25, 2019 01:47
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how did you find my prom photo
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Feb 25, 2019 02:24
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ruddiger posted:You should watch Stir of Echoes to get yourself ready for whatever unfinished business the trapped spirits in your basement ask of you. I actually just saw a trailer for that on a tape and felt extremely old. Was it any good? Mel Mudkiper posted:how did you find my prom photo The girl you went with is pretty
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Feb 25, 2019 02:43
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Coffee And Pie posted:I actually just saw a trailer for that on a tape and felt extremely old. Was it any good? It's pretty good! IIRC it wasn't looked upon highly when it came out since it was seen as a Sixth Sense ripoff, and while it surely only finally got made because of that it's based on a Richard Matheson book from 1958. It's tight, good little ghost story.
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Feb 25, 2019 02:55
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Coffee And Pie posted:The girl you went with is pretty I know that's why I couldn't resist kissing her cheek
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Feb 25, 2019 03:10
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Neo Rasa posted:It's pretty good! IIRC it wasn't looked upon highly when it came out since it was seen as a Sixth Sense ripoff, and while it surely only finally got made because of that it's based on a Richard Matheson book from 1958. It's tight, good little ghost story. It follows the book pretty well too.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:15
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Yea Stir of Echos is good.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:27
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I haven't seen Stir of Echoes in forever, but I remember really liking it. It came out in the same year as The Sixth Sense and Blair Witch, and the internet reminds me that's also when we got remakes of both The Haunting and House on Haunted Hill. I was hoping that would spark more of a ghost boom, but there weren't too many other memorable ones in those next couple of years except for The Others and my beloved Ghost Ship.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:28
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I know we've been talking about Hellraiser and I stan the series pretty hard, but holy poo poo does Judgement take a huge steaming dump on the canon by just outright saying "yep, they're demons from Hell, fighting angels, it's exactly as boring and stupid as it sounds, nothing to see here about realms of experience beyond humanity that can only be reached by the extremes of physical sensation. Demons!"  deety posted:my beloved Ghost Ship. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 03:36
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It's a nostalgia thing. I saw it in a decently crowded theater with no expectations, so it was kind of hard to care that the rest of it didn't live up to that intro.
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Feb 25, 2019 03:50
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Easy Diff posted:I know we've been talking about Hellraiser and I stan the series pretty hard, but holy poo poo does Judgement take a huge steaming dump on the canon by just outright saying "yep, they're demons from Hell, fighting angels, it's exactly as boring and stupid as it sounds, nothing to see here about realms of experience beyond humanity that can only be reached by the extremes of physical sensation. Demons!" I liked it focused on other Gashes than Pinhead's, but they could've done more with it like what happens after going through The Butcher and The Surgeon? The angel made no sense since what we've seen of Hell isn't the standard with Lucifer/Satan in charge and all it really did was show Heaven's pretty cold and uncaring as well. I can see going the guilt route as an exploration of psychological pain, but it just needed more to illustrate the point.
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Feb 25, 2019 04:08
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Coffee And Pie posted:I actually just saw a trailer for that on a tape and felt extremely old. Was it any good? C'mon dog, I wouldn't name drop it if it wasn't worth the time. It's good. Keven Bacon is always solid.
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Feb 25, 2019 05:14
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Easy Diff posted:I know we've been talking about Hellraiser and I stan the series pretty hard, but holy poo poo does Judgement take a huge steaming dump on the canon by just outright saying "yep, they're demons from Hell, fighting angels, it's exactly as boring and stupid as it sounds, nothing to see here about realms of experience beyond humanity that can only be reached by the extremes of physical sensation. Demons!" Unfortunately this is pretty much canon now. When Clive Barker finally published the sequel to the novella it also went this direction. That said they were always pretty much always demons in all but name.
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Feb 25, 2019 06:35
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The Hellraiser comics are way better canon than Barker's poo poo tier Pinhead fanfic novel.
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Feb 25, 2019 07:29
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Origami Dali posted:The Hellraiser comics are way better canon than Barker's poo poo tier Pinhead fanfic novel. How bad is Scarlet Gospels? So far only negative I've heard that I trust is it runs a bit longer than it should.
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Feb 25, 2019 07:51
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M_Sinistrari posted:How bad is Scarlet Gospels? So far only negative I've heard that I trust is it runs a bit longer than it should. It's very bad. Its just a poor fantasy-action novel with occasional gross poo poo happening, featuring bare characters who only speak in sarcastic one liners. There are moments when he's just describing the hellscape and talking about sorrow that are really really nice, but it's only a brief reprieve from everything else. I'd never guess it was written by Barker if his name wasn't on the cover.
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Feb 25, 2019 07:57
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RE Korean horror, Bunshinsaba (2004) is on YT and is so drat good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvrwXIPsxc
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Feb 25, 2019 08:12
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Oh poo poo, Shudder just added the restoration of The Reflecting Skin, which is one of my favorites. It isn't exactly horror, but it's a criminally underseen bizarre flick about childhood along the lines of Paperhouse or Afraid of the Dark. I highly recommend checking it out.
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Feb 25, 2019 08:37
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For all the cool Lovecraftian stuff in Hellraiser 2, it's sort of where they lay the groundwork for the Cenobites being demons from Hell. Pinhead saying cool stuff like "your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell!" is one thing; worse is his explanation that the protagonist and her father are in their own personal hells and Frank explaining how he is being "punished" by being denied any stimulus. Like, the labyrinth should be full of people experiencing the extremes of sensation. There is one scene where the doctor comes across something like that, so it is not all bad.
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Feb 25, 2019 08:54
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Biomute posted:For all the cool Lovecraftian stuff in Hellraiser 2, it's sort of where they lay the groundwork for the Cenobites being demons from Hell. I don't know, I thought that was laid when they called the first movie Hellraiser. As in, one who raises Hell.
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Feb 25, 2019 09:39
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The idea of them being from Hell isn't a confirmation of some Heaven/Hell Christian distinction, but rather us being shown that what we've been calling Hell and how we thought we understood it was very different from the reality. It's the same as the hedonists in the novel/first two films thinking they understood the concept of pleasure until the Cenobites showed up.
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Feb 25, 2019 09:59
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Origami Dali posted:It's very bad. Its just a poor fantasy-action novel with occasional gross poo poo happening, featuring bare characters who only speak in sarcastic one liners. There are moments when he's just describing the hellscape and talking about sorrow that are really really nice, but it's only a brief reprieve from everything else. I'd never guess it was written by Barker if his name wasn't on the cover. Some people think it wasn't written by Barker. Another theory says the manuscript was an even bigger mess and they hacked away parts to get it publishable. Maybe he just sucks now, I don't know. I know about 10-15 years ago he almost died of sepsis and hasn't really done anything notable since then.
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Feb 25, 2019 10:27
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Barker's novels were never as good as his short stories, and he was already getting into "more stinkers than not" territory by the late 90s. Galilee is awful, Coldheart Canyon reads like a weaker rehash of Imajica / Weaveworld, Abarat is passable YA but "passable" is pretty disappointing coming from the guy who wrote The Thief of Always. Mister B. Gone was completely aimless. I haven't read all of his newer work but the overall trend is not good.
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Feb 25, 2019 10:33
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Angels should only be featured in a Hellraiser movie if they're like wheels inside of wheels covered in eyes. Heaven should either be a dull sexless void in contrast to the excesses of the labyrinth or like a giant prolapsed anus made of pure gold or something.
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Feb 25, 2019 10:34
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Origami Dali posted:It's very bad. Its just a poor fantasy-action novel with occasional gross poo poo happening, featuring bare characters who only speak in sarcastic one liners. There are moments when he's just describing the hellscape and talking about sorrow that are really really nice, but it's only a brief reprieve from everything else. I'd never guess it was written by Barker if his name wasn't on the cover. Eh, a lot of it is very firmly Barker novel territory and exactly the kind of characters he writes. The action, especially in the third act is where things fall apart. Like the climax where Pinhead has a full on DBZ fight with The Devil is pretty questionable.
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Feb 25, 2019 12:01
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Jedit posted:I don't know, I thought that was laid when they called the first movie Hellraiser. As in, one who raises Hell. Nah, the Cenobites spell out their raison d'etre in the first movie and it's sort of ambiguous. Like, they don't mind using human allegory, but they're not there to punish any sort of transgression, just facilitate a new kind of existence that for most, but perhaps not all, would be horrible. The Hellraiser name is just Hollywood marketing bs, and the Satanist angle explored in the second and especially third movie is just a way to dumb down the concept and make it more relatable to most people. Origami Dali posted:The idea of them being from Hell isn't a confirmation of some Heaven/Hell Christian distinction, but rather us being shown that what we've been calling Hell and how we thought we understood it was very different from the reality. It's the same as the hedonists in the novel/first two films thinking they understood the concept of pleasure until the Cenobites showed up. That explanation sort of works for the second movie, but breaks down in subsequent ones, I feel. It also sort of ignores that in the first movie the Cenobites claim that some people are apparently happy with going to their dimension and the experiences they will find there. If what we consider Hell is actually the labyrinth, but it's not a Christian Hell then why is Pinhead leaning into the church desecration in the third movie? I think it's more interesting (and scary) when the puzzle box is not some trick to punish the morally repugnant, but just some Lovecraftian artifact that summons being who care little for our human sensibilities.
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Feb 25, 2019 12:10
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Biomute posted:Nah, the Cenobites spell out their raison d'etre in the first movie and it's sort of ambiguous. Like, they don't mind using human allegory, but they're not there to punish any sort of transgression, just facilitate a new kind of existence that for most, but perhaps not all, would be horrible. Then why is the original story called The Hellbound Heart? You've almost got it when you say the Cenobites don't mind using human allegory, but you have it in reverse. The Cenobites are from Hell; humans just fail to understand what the reality of that Hell is. Imagine a religious person learning of a hedonist who found the Box in his quest for experience, summoned the Cenobites, and got tormented eternally by them. To that religious person, the torment would be a judgement and a punishment - but to the Cenobites it is merely fulfilling a wish, albeit not in the manner expected. And that, folks, is why the best Hellraiser movie is The Passion of the Christ.
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Feb 25, 2019 13:36
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Barker's novels were never as good as his short stories, and he was already getting into "more stinkers than not" territory by the late 90s. Galilee is awful, Coldheart Canyon reads like a weaker rehash of Imajica / Weaveworld, Abarat is passable YA but "passable" is pretty disappointing coming from the guy who wrote The Thief of Always. Mister B. Gone was completely aimless. I haven't read all of his newer work but the overall trend is not good. Mister B. Gone was the first time I was truly and utterly disappointed by a book. I was so hype as a teen, pre-ordered the hardcover and everything. It sucked, and this first edition had a ton of typos, while the book keeps endlessly harping on the importance of words and especially the written word. Point is, I don’t get to talk about Mister B. Gone much because it’s bad. I will probably never ever mention this book again. It’s really loving tough to disappoint a teenager who had, until that point, devoured the writer’s entire bibliography. ‘Completely aimless’ is a good way to put it. Dissapointed Owl fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 13:54
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I actually like Mister B Gone. So few books do that perspective of actively talking to the reader. Like, it's There's A Monster At The End Of This Book for grown ups.
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Feb 25, 2019 14:06
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I never read it, but I remember Abarat being pushed really hard, possibly even being considered culturally relevant.
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Feb 25, 2019 15:17
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K. Waste posted:RE Korean horror, Bunshinsaba (2004) is on YT and is so drat good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvrwXIPsxc *Squints eye* Why does this open with Korean Disney logo
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Feb 25, 2019 16:00
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Hollis, just out of curiosity, what state do you live in?
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Feb 25, 2019 18:21
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