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Difficulty scaling is hard, making effective tutorials is harder.
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Mar 2, 2019 17:31
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| # ? May 7, 2024 04:16 |
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I was looking through some old stuff and found a link to a video I'd forgotten I uploaded about a mod I'd forgotten I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e11S7sHEx5c Given that this mod deprives trains of the blood sacrifice they so richly deserve, is it even moral for me to remake it for 0.17?
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Mar 2, 2019 17:57
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GotLag posted:I was looking through some old stuff and found a link to a video I'd forgotten I uploaded about a mod I'd forgotten I made: That mod sounds like an abomination to me.
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Mar 2, 2019 18:04
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ikanreed posted:Is 0.17 actually out? Is the campaign too buggy to play? It's definitely playable, though it's still in early experimental mode. There's been about one bugfix patch per day since release but no major or game-breaking glitches.
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Mar 2, 2019 19:22
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GotLag posted:I was looking through some old stuff and found a link to a video I'd forgotten I uploaded about a mod I'd forgotten I made:  (No, please don't.)
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Mar 2, 2019 19:24
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XkyRauh posted:Only if you make the inverse as a selectable mod option. If I'm standing near the tracks, and a train approaches.... No no, please do! Call it the Japanese salaryman mod or train chicken.
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Mar 2, 2019 20:42
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Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? I played through it and expected some kind of hellish experience where the entire base would be overrun by behemoths by the end. Instead I just walled off a bottleneck, belt fed the line of turrets and nothing even reached the wall. What gives?
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Mar 2, 2019 20:56
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Ratzap posted:No no, please do! Call it the Japanese salaryman mod or train chicken. bonus points if it gives a numerical score on how good at chicken you are logarithmic on closest train proximity when it passes you safely, maybe
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Mar 2, 2019 20:57
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TigerXtrm posted:Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? I played through it and expected some kind of hellish experience where the entire base would be overrun by behemoths by the end. Instead I just walled off a bottleneck, belt fed the line of turrets and nothing even reached the wall. What gives? It's not that turrets can't do enough damage, it's that the amount of resources you have to dedicate to producing ammo is pretty insane. If you don't belt feed the turrets before you trigger the last phase, you pretty much have to spend all your time ferrying ammo to them and can't even reactively build such a system.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:03
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K8.0 posted:It's not that turrets can't do enough damage, it's that the amount of resources you have to dedicate to producing ammo is pretty insane. If you don't belt feed the turrets before you trigger the last phase, you pretty much have to spend all your time ferrying ammo to them and can't even reactively build such a system. One of the previous prerequisites to the wave defense was a certain amount of ammo/min. I took it down immediately after that part triggered and had some difficulty due to ammo shortages, but still had time to set up a couple of ammo assemblers and recover. But like the whole point of the tutorial is to teach the actual game, in which if you scale up a whole lot, ignore defenses, and don't try to react until waves upon waves set on you, well yeah your base gets overrun.  Put turrets behind cliffs and its 100% a test of ammo production
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Mar 2, 2019 21:51
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I feel like they really undersold how much more intense the bug game is now, even on normal settings... The rate at which they come at you early, and the increasing size of the waves, it's like a whole new game. Please tell me they slowed down evolution or something, because I'm afraid there's no way I'm gonna be ready for medium bugs at this rate, if I do things the way I used to
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Mar 3, 2019 00:55
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super fart shooter posted:I feel like they really undersold how much more intense the bug game is now, even on normal settings... The rate at which they come at you early, and the increasing size of the waves, it's like a whole new game. Please tell me they slowed down evolution or something, because I'm afraid there's no way I'm gonna be ready for medium bugs at this rate, if I do things the way I used to That's the point though, change what you're doing. If your cloud covers 3 or 4 'circles' of nests you used to get 1 bug from each of the first circle nests, now ALL of them send bugs. Clearing the crap your cloud touches gets imperative to keeping the waves down.
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Mar 3, 2019 00:58
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TigerXtrm posted:Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? I played through it and expected some kind of hellish experience where the entire base would be overrun by behemoths by the end. Instead I just walled off a bottleneck, belt fed the line of turrets and nothing even reached the wall. What gives? The quantity of enemies scales super hard with pollution production so all the factorio veterans who build a million miners, science assemblers, and labs before it even gets to the defense bit get way more biters to contend with and get overwhelmed fast.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:21
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Even just 1/2 a yellow belt of iron ore processing for ammo with minimal, mostly hand-fed copper and science assemblers still resulted in over 5k biters knocking on my walls. It's scaled such that the only way to have an "easy" run is to hand-feed everything.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:36
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TigerXtrm posted:Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? I played through it and expected some kind of hellish experience where the entire base would be overrun by behemoths by the end. Instead I just walled off a bottleneck, belt fed the line of turrets and nothing even reached the wall. What gives? Keep in mind this is intended for someone who's never played the game before. The game also never tells you to research walls, as I recall My defenses were starting to buckle at the end (though I made a really ambitious turret island out east, which was fine until the biters went from like 6 per minute to 30 per minute).
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Mar 3, 2019 03:02
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The robots not launching from vehicles they can't keep up with doesn't seem to account for faster fuels. My robots are happily getting left in the dust by a rocket-fueled tank.
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Mar 3, 2019 04:54
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uPen posted:The robots not launching from vehicles they can't keep up with doesn't seem to account for faster fuels. My robots are happily getting left in the dust by a rocket-fueled tank. Have you considered making them bipedal and nuclear armed? I hear that's how you surpass rocket tanks.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:11
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TigerXtrm posted:Why are people bitching that the tutorial is too hard? My first experience with the game was being run over by the helper robot as it went off to set up the mining demonstration, breaking the scripting and leaving me thinking my character decided to lie down and take a rest as the camera zoomed in and out for a minute. That's a pretty tough tutorial in my book. Then on my second attempt 4 hours just disappeared.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:19
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Psychepath posted:My first experience with the game was being run over by the helper robot as it went off to set up the mining demonstration, breaking the scripting and leaving me thinking my character decided to lie down and take a rest as the camera zoomed in and out for a minute. That's a pretty tough tutorial in my book. The numbers on Compilatron are pretty ridiculous. All that HP and some e+ number for damage! Sorry you got pancaked. 
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Mar 3, 2019 08:18
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Psychepath posted:My first experience with the game was being run over by the helper robot as it went off to set up the mining demonstration It's pretty hilarious that it can actually run you over. Consider it a lesson for trains later 
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Mar 3, 2019 12:29
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:The quantity of enemies scales super hard with pollution production so all the factorio veterans who build a million miners, science assemblers, and labs before it even gets to the defense bit get way more biters to contend with and get overwhelmed fast. Sounds like it's time to start clearing bases. I've been lazy and just have partial walls and turrets at the usual attack points. I've been enjoying this new game. I've retained enough from previous games that I can get stuff up and running, but I'm avoiding the wiki and blueprints so there's still a lot of figuring poo poo out as I go. I just got blue science and oil finished up .
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Mar 3, 2019 13:27
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I played the new tutorial yesterday. I think the old tutorial gave better babysteps but this new one is certainly more polished. I don't like that there are biters coming from both sides and there are so many that newbs must figure out to belt ammo. But if the goal was to build tension it worked.
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Mar 3, 2019 16:04
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I spent about 30 minutes instituting biter genocide of all bases surrounding my starting area. I simply could not go more than 10 minutes without waves of annoying attacks until I did. Now that I have a proper bus going and am building a mall, the next ring of surrounding bases is absurdly large, consisting of clusters of medium worms that wiped the floor with me every time I tried to turret creep up on them. I just finished all military upgrades that I can get before blue science and am going to try again. Wish me luck!
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Mar 3, 2019 17:04
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Lordshmee posted:I spent about 30 minutes instituting biter genocide of all bases surrounding my starting area. I simply could not go more than 10 minutes without waves of annoying attacks until I did. Now that I have a proper bus going and am building a mall, the next ring of surrounding bases is absurdly large, consisting of clusters of medium worms that wiped the floor with me every time I tried to turret creep up on them. I just finished all military upgrades that I can get before blue science and am going to try again. Wish me luck! Mediums will die to flamethrowers but your dodge game needs to be on top form. AP fired from a circling car works fine too but watch out for trees/rocks, if you stop you'll be covered in goop pronto.
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Mar 3, 2019 18:00
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Lordshmee posted:I spent about 30 minutes instituting biter genocide of all bases surrounding my starting area. I simply could not go more than 10 minutes without waves of annoying attacks until I did. Now that I have a proper bus going and am building a mall, the next ring of surrounding bases is absurdly large, consisting of clusters of medium worms that wiped the floor with me every time I tried to turret creep up on them. I just finished all military upgrades that I can get before blue science and am going to try again. Wish me luck! Turret creep is not that strong in 0.17 since the bigger worms outrange all turrets. But on the other hand, worm spit now has a travel time so moving targets like engineers (or cars) can dodge it by zig-zagging.
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Mar 3, 2019 21:51
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Lordshmee posted:I spent about 30 minutes instituting biter genocide of all bases surrounding my starting area. I simply could not go more than 10 minutes without waves of annoying attacks until I did. Now that I have a proper bus going and am building a mall, the next ring of surrounding bases is absurdly large, consisting of clusters of medium worms that wiped the floor with me every time I tried to turret creep up on them. I just finished all military upgrades that I can get before blue science and am going to try again. Wish me luck! Drive a car in circles around it while shooting and chucking grenades. Don't crash into anything cause you'll get swarmed and die instantly.
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Mar 3, 2019 23:18
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 I think I might have overbuilt a bit before the enemy spawns were triggered, because they were very unhappy by the time I finished the tutorial. That said, it's about 95% doable and appropriately stressful for a brand new player, but I'll admit I only succeeded because I watched a few youtube videos last night to learn those three "untaught mechanics." I either missed tooltips or the pipette and ctrl-click shortcuts weren't mentioned anywhere. Not having splitters or underground belts and the awkward cliffs was smart because I couldn't simply copy building placements I saw in videos and had to be more creative than I expected. I feel overwhelmed but incredibly excited to learn the other 99% of the game now.
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Mar 4, 2019 06:54
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I usually play with biters turned off, but am going default settings/vanilla for my first factory on the new update. After survivng the initial onslaught I've walled off my base and ringed it with belt fed turrets and I'm really digging the massive waves of biters throwing themselves relentlessly against the walls (especially with new sound and graphics). It's some real last stand/starship troopers type poo poo far above and beyond what I remember when I use to have them turned on.
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Mar 4, 2019 12:36
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I put off making a new start a couple of weeks before 0.17 and i'm so glad i did with the new belt and train UI. Now i've got a (fairly) waste-free nuclear setup and i can finally REALLY expand a laser+wall perimeter around my fart gas clouds plus some breathing room. I feel like the newly less useful tank will make actual expansion before artillery tough though. Funnily enough my uranium mine is the one getting the most heat, since it's furthest out and is the most active right now. I really wish it was more obvious what best practices are in regards to fluid flow and pipelines however. It feels kind of wasteful experimenting with different setups, but i guess i spent a good while scratching my head over nuclear fuel inserter circuits and now i've got a stockpile of 500 fuel and gently caress it, i can afford to waste some steam. Not being able to read from the reactor's inventory is such a pain in the rear end, and i'm probably overthinking it, but it feels like i need to go and look up real-rear end electrical engineering stuff so i can put together a circuit that'll only add one fuel canister off of a laggy steam signal. Something i found useful in my space-limited starting position is to fill a couple of steel chests with early and midgame science so that i can just flatten old production and feed the labs off of the chests when i'm getting into midgame stuff - in terms of actually getting progression-relevant research you don't seem to actually need more than a couple of steel chests full. It's been really helpful not having to expand my base (and fart cloud, and fart cloud protection) and not having to worry about evenly feeding masses of red-to-blue production while i'm trying to put together a nuclear plant and ten billion walls and laser turrets.
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Mar 4, 2019 13:11
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Gravy Jones posted:I usually play with biters turned off, but am going default settings/vanilla for my first factory on the new update.  I tend to do this every release as it's the best way to get a feel for it.I went for a clean policy though. Keep the base small, turn bits off when I don't need them and send a lot of time out clearing nests. I'm almost through blue science and have unlocked yellow/purple with no attacks since setting up the first lab area. It's getting harder to manage though. I ran out of iron just as I hooked up a 13M patch and holy poo poo is it puking out pollution. Then again I now have a tank and plenty of flamethrower fuel so making space is just a matter of time (I'm playing a rail world). My plan now is to finish off blue science, change the base into a parts mall and build a new big base to do science with rather than flail around trying to expand the first base.
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Mar 4, 2019 14:34
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My longest/deepest game was played in peaceful, and while my 0.17 solo game is still peaceful, I'm playing an MP game with 2-3 friends with default settings. I'm kinda surprised at just how far biters are coming from. I guess our base/pollution cloud is just that big, but we're getting attacked by stuff way off radar range. Sometimes I'm surprised by the direction they come from. We had one person sort of taking the lead on taking out biters, but unfortunately they're also the one who wasn't around while we spent like five hours expanding the base. Defending during that time wasn't hard, but we definitely had some nearby biter bases that had gotten real nasty. I eventually rolled out in a tank to take out some of the bases, and while things were fairly breezy for the first few bases, I think I ran into my first big biter? It was this nasty thing that took an absurd amount of piercing rounds from my tank. Also, I don't know if I had a control snafu, or if there's evolved biters/worms that will stop a tank in its tracks, but I had the unfortunate experience of coming to a dead stop while trying to roll through some nests. And despite my killing spree, little buggers had the nerve to re-expand into territory I cleared. 
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Mar 4, 2019 16:24
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tank has the momentum to smush through biters, but if your speed drops too low, you come to a complete standstill. very scary, very dangerous. I've only played a few games on peaceful, and I always end up regretting the decision mid to late game. it becomes a very sterile experience when you don't have that outside pressure constantly causing you to adapt. that being said though, there were plenty of moments where I'd just about had it with biters. get's really tiresome having to drop whatever project you're working on to go save a distant part of your base from being overrun.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:27
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Yeah, they provide a really good time-pressure early on, but i've had a few times late game when i really didn't feel like rolling out a tank and clearing bases for 10 minutes just to clear out enough room for a new base section or mining spot.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:38
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I definitely feel like artillery has gotten rid of that tedium. I'm just going to have a few artillery outposts to keep biter nests well clear of my base.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:42
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My friends were on the brink of artillery last night (started research, although our yellow production was pretty poo poo) - had to go to bed before they stopped playing so no idea where things got, but excited to see artillery in action.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:44
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Artillery is oddly time and capital intensive but so cool. But it's a few steps later than what to graduate your tank out of. Depending when you get your power armor filled to the brim and have personal lasers and or robot capsules, at a certain point you should be using the tank or buggy as a grenade and poison capsule spamming machine because there's just too many things to run over at once or fire the cannon/machine gun at at once.
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Mar 4, 2019 17:37
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It's worth noting that the tanks front bumper is more dangerous to use now, since spitters lead you (ramming speed is easy to lead) and slows you down on hit, so several hits can bring you to a crawl, reducing ram damage and making further hits more likely. On the other hand, explosive shells are much much nicer than before and do a good job kicking an rear end. Use the shells to kill the nests, worms and clusters, AP rounds to clean up.
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Mar 4, 2019 17:51
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That's the opposite of how I did it in my last deathworld game. I used explosive shells on the waves of enemies chasing me because of the aoe, and bullets for the spawners since during the drive bys I could target specific buildings. Also it kept the shells from exploding in my face as a biter darted between the tank and what I wanted to shoot.
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Mar 4, 2019 18:13
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So here's a maybe odd request. I decided in the middle of playing that solar is too OP, so I installed the RealisticPower mod. But, because this happened after I've already researched accumulators (and also built some of them), only one of the two accumulator types in the mod is unlocked (presumably the one with the same internal ID as the base game accumulator). Can someone savvy tell me what console command I should put in to fix this? Maybe a way to un-research accumulators, so they get unlocked again?
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Mar 4, 2019 18:34
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| # ? May 7, 2024 04:16 |
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https://wiki.factorio.com/Console#Enabling_specific_recipes
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Mar 4, 2019 19:53
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