|
hobbesmaster posted:I get that, but theres still not reason for Ned to keep his wife in the dark is there? And then Rob does something truly idiotic because of Jon's treatment later but... you know, Starks.
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 17:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:08 |
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:"His wife" is some stranger he was arranged to marry for the sake of the rebellion, no? I don't think he has much reason to trust her then. It's easy to imagine resentment for, well, the same reasons there is already between Catelyn and Jon - he's not her child. She still has to face the embarassment of her husband publicly having a bastard, I think that was probably worse than the stranger you married "cheating" on you. But then she'd have an ace in the hole - let something slip to Robert and maybe the problem goes away. I think Ned, particularly immediately-after-rebellion Ned, would have been foolish to trust this relative stranger with that knowing what's at stake. Once the lie is set, I can imagine not telling her later. I'm sure he would have told Jon himself at some point though, and it's actually bizarre that he didn't do that before he sent him off to the wall but, well, that's how books work. Sure. But that was what 18 years ago at the start of the first book?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 17:41
|
|
|
I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall. Early drafts she was probably a wildling queen with the power to defeat white walkers using eye-beams. And Jon discovers this power right before a white walker is about to stab him and his mothers ghost shows up to explain everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 17:47
|
|
|
Katt posted:I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall. Bran telling the story in the crypts about how Rhaegar "raped" Lyanna is in the first book, if I'm not mistaken, I remember figuring out R+L=J without outside influence based on this line alone.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'm sure he would have told Jon himself at some point though, and it's actually bizarre that he didn't do that before he sent him off to the wall but, well, that's how books work. I certainly wouldn't have told a 14 year old that he has a claim to be king of the world.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 17:55
|
|
|
genericnick posted:I certainly wouldn't have told a 14 year old that he has a claim to be king of the world. Ned just has to tell Jon about his mother though?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:02
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Ned just has to tell Jon about his mother though? he'd uh...he'd probably work out the rest though, if you gave him half of it. given that "Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna" is the accepted line around Winterfell
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:06
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Ned just has to tell Jon about his mother though? I think he was probably going to genuinely tell him everything once he got settled at the wall. What I wonder is if Ned knew about Aemon’s family and wanted him to get familiar with him prior to telling him his true parentage. That way Jon would be safe and secure in a place that accepted him with people in a similar plight along with his uncle. It’s not a bad idea of how to break some truly life shattering news to a child you love. Everything just went to poo poo like immediately afterwards.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
Katt posted:I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall. R+L=J is one of those thinks that was probably already in place by the time GRRM was writing the first book. It's too integral to the story.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
genericnick posted:I certainly wouldn't have told a 14 year old that he has a claim to be king of the world.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:48
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah I guess *I* see ned going into danger, but he didn't know he was. Certainly Jon was going into danger though - Ned at least knew they wouldn't see each other for a long while. So sure, I'd prefer to wait, but it sorta seemed like the right time to me. (GRRM's ages are so weird, the idea that he was 14 is pretty ridiculous.) Was Jon really going into danger? Like the only thing the watch has been doing for the last 1000 years is drink lovely ale and fire arrows at wildling refugees getting too near the wall.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
Katt posted:Was Jon really going into danger? Like the only thing the watch has been doing for the last 1000 years is drink lovely ale and fire arrows at wildling refugees getting too near the wall. Ranging has to be at least somewhat dangerous.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Ranging has to be at least somewhat dangerous. All they do is skulk around the woods and assassinate wildlings minding their own business 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 19:01
|
|
|
Katt posted:Was Jon really going into danger? Like the only thing the watch has been doing for the last 1000 years is drink lovely ale and fire arrows at wildling refugees getting too near the wall.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 19:03
|
|
|
TK-42-1 posted:I think he was probably going to genuinely tell him everything once he got settled at the wall. What I wonder is if Ned knew about Aemon’s family and wanted him to get familiar with him prior to telling him his true parentage. That way Jon would be safe and secure in a place that accepted him with people in a similar plight along with his uncle. Aemon isn't Jon's uncle but his grandparents' uncle 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
Great grandparents' uncle, Jaehaerys II was omitted in the series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 20:28
|
|
|
they're saving him for the prequels
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 20:34
|
|
|
prequels, spinoffs, side stories. this franchise has legs for decades and they won't need GRRM for any of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 20:41
|
|
|
Katt posted:I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall. Ehh, I think so. I remember reading it the first time back then and going "Hmm, sister dies saying 'Promise me, Ned" and he gets back with a mystery baby (who grows up to be slender and tall compared to his bulkier, stronger half-brother), this is pretty drat obvious unless it's a very cheap red herring". Then again, this series has the whole Young Griff bullshit as well as the guild of unfailing magical assassins that can be hired by a crazy pirate and no one else in the entire world because it would break the plot, so it's very possible that GRRm still has the dartboard of ideas the used to pick the resolution.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 20:52
|
|
|
less laughter posted:Aemon isn't Jon's uncle but his grandparents' uncle I meant Benjen but I guess I should have clarified.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
Katt posted:I believe he went to winterfell with a team of elite fighting wildling women and Ramsay caught him and locked him up in a cage with only a quilt made out of the skins of the women for warmth. We don't know what happened to him - we just have the note from Ramsay. Katt posted:I wouldn't say "allowed to join the watch" is right word. /agree. I think the parallel in our history would be sending lesser sons to join the church. Man, can you imagine how pissed Jon would be if, after he pledges to the wall, Ned is like -"... also you should be the king lol, no take backs. PS don't gently caress your aunt. " Katt posted:Cat almost killed baby Jon with super plague using her church powers. refresh me? I don't remember this. Katt posted:I wonder if GRRM even knew who Jons mother was by the time Jon went to the wall. Yes - there was supposed to be an attraction between him and Arya ( you can see some remnants of it in the Needle scene ). Which becomes "ok" once he knows his background. I don't have source on this, but I think it was from the original editor's notes or something. oh poo poo that just reminded me.. Isn't there some editors notes where next to the scene of the hound in the graveyard, she asks "Is this the hound?" and he says "no". Or am I making this up?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 21:19
|
|
|
kcroy posted:Yes - there was supposed to be an attraction between him and Arya ( you can see some remnants of it in the Needle scene ). Which becomes "ok" once he knows his background. I don't have source on this, but I think it was from the original editor's notes or something. Yeah, it's super okay to gently caress your cousin, that you grew up with as a child, nothing creepy about that at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 21:33
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:Yeah, it's super okay to gently caress your cousin, that you grew up with as a child, nothing creepy about that at all. well it's less creepy than than if they were siblings. or banging your aunt. or the incest twins.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 22:44
|
|
|
Katt posted:I wouldn't say "allowed to join the watch" is right word. Ned wanted Jon to stay at Winterfell with Robb, it was Catelyn that refused and said she wouldn't have it. Jon wanted to join Benjen in the Night's Watch so it all ended up working out
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 22:50
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:Ned wanted Jon to stay at Winterfell with Robb, it was Catelyn that refused and said she wouldn't have it. Jon wanted to join Benjen in the Night's Watch so it all ended up working out Well, except for Benjen. Though I guess they do meet up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 22:54
|
|
|
kcroy posted:Yes - there was supposed to be an attraction between him and Arya ( you can see some remnants of it in the Needle scene ). Which becomes "ok" once he knows his background. I don't have source on this, but I think it was from the original editor's notes or something. It's from the original outline pitch GRRM sent to his editor. It's got all sorts of crazy poo poo in it like Arya being the center of a love triangle between Jon and Tyrion. Dany and Drogo invading Westeros together in Book 2. Catelyn, Bran, and Arya going beyond the Wall together, crossing paths with Mance Rayder and then Cat getting ganked by an Other. Oh and Jaime's a straight up villain in this version and becomes the big bad of the series by murdering Joffrey and stealing the throne with, from the sound of it, not a word of protest from Cersei.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 22:56
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:It's from the original outline pitch GRRM sent to his editor. It makes virtually every character unsympathetic, which is kind of awesome. Dany murders Drogo, Jaime murders everyone (blames Tyrion), Sansa chooses the Lannisters (wed to Joffrey), Bran I guess is the Stark of "dubious loyalty".
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 23:08
|
|
|
Hail Joffrey!
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 05:12
|
|
|
It sucks that we got screwed out of that interesting sounding three book series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 05:20
|
|
|
kcroy posted:refresh me? I don't remember this. Cat prayed to the gods to kill Jon and the following day he got some baby super pox. But if the baby survives the first night then it's fine. So cat sat up the whole night and unprayed to get him cured and swore that if the gods saved him then she would accept him as her own and ask that Ned give him the Stark name. Well the gods went backsies and Jon lived and she did nothing she promised. She couldn't even pretend to not hate him to his face. Like if she was vaguely practical she would have at least considered that Lord Robb of winterfell might one day have use of a blood brother as a trusted captain in some capacity but noooo. Edit: Okay the show can kill off little finger now. I'm tired of him. After selling Sansa to two monsters he's still doing the whole "I would do anything to protect you"
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 06:16
|
|
|
Katt posted:Cat prayed to the gods to kill Jon and the following day he got some baby super pox. But if the baby survives the first night then it's fine. So cat sat up the whole night and unprayed to get him cured and swore that if the gods saved him then she would accept him as her own and ask that Ned give him the Stark name. I feel like that was show only scene Cat had w/ a show only character, but it's been a hot minute since I read the books. Most of her thoughts about Jon are just 'she could never love Jon or forgive Ned for not sending him away'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 07:52
|
|
|
Cat also has that inner monologue in the book where she laments how incredibly ugly Brienne is and how harsh life must be for such an ugly woman. No mercy at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 07:56
|
|
|
Katt posted:Edit: Okay the show can kill off little finger now. I'm tired of him. After selling Sansa to two monsters he's still doing the whole "I would do anything to protect you" Season five was a mistake. E: like other than Hardhome did anything good happen in that season?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 08:11
|
|
|
whowhatwhere posted:Season five was a mistake. Sandsnake_Fight.gif
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 08:40
|
|
|
absolute fucker posted:As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it. I do, however, have some strong notions as to the overall structure of the story I'm telling, and the eventual fate of many of the principle characters in the drama. I mean... it's all right there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 09:32
|
|
|
whowhatwhere posted:Season five was a mistake. Everything after season four was a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 10:02
|
|
|
Vichan posted:Everything after season four was a mistake. Besides Hardhome this is correct.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 14:15
|
|
|
I liked the Battle of the Bastards too. It was silly but a fun kind of silly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 14:24
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:Besides Hardhome this is correct. What annoyed me about that was that they clearly left Hardhome by boat yet in the next episode they're north of the Wall trying to come into Castle Black. Other than that it was a terrific moment. That Wildling woman was awesome.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:08 |
|
|
Vichan posted:What annoyed me about that was that they clearly left Hardhome by boat yet in the next episode they're north of the Wall trying to come into Castle Black. And they let the wildlings in, then killed Jon for letting the wildlings in.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 15:15
|
|
