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Lid posted:But this did happen for God Hand, Alien Isolation and the Wonderful 101 I feel like Isolation was more that is was hard due to the alien being sucky sometimes. The others for sure though. God Hand was maligned and that poo poo owned.
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Mar 17, 2019 12:35
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https://youtu.be/A9NpbnBaDPE Video behind the scenes of the soundtrack
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Mar 17, 2019 12:44
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Dark Souls 3 had a review embargo as well, I remember the panic around it. It was unwarranted. I have 100% confidence in From
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Mar 17, 2019 13:08
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did miyazaki do otogi? otogi sucks
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Mar 17, 2019 13:19
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Pwnstar posted:Bloodborne would have been better without stats imo. i concur. maybe have increased health or stamina tied to gear. i'm not an rpg guy so i've sometimes tried brainstorming how i;d make a soulslike.
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Mar 17, 2019 14:58
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Relin posted:did miyazaki do otogi? otogi sucks No. He’s only done Armored Core 4 and I’m p sure that’s the only game outside of BloodSouls but idk, I’ve never played them, he might’ve done the other AC 4 game. But his first game that was his own was Demons souls, then DS1, was like not really involved with 2 but is credited as a supervisor, and was working on Bloodborne that whole time, came into DS3 halfway through development and then this. So I hiiighly doubt that this game will be like Fallout 76, simply because Activision is the publisher. Also SotC got a lot of mid 80s scores from popular sites, I feel like the remake and whatnot helped boost the score retroactively. Maybe ico? Either way, TLG was like an 81 on metacritic months after launch and Bethesda Pinball was 1 point above it, so the point remains valid as that’s a masterpiece and I’m assuming Bethesda pinball isn’t as good, WHO KNOWS THO? it could be better than the last guardian.
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Mar 17, 2019 15:30
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Pwnstar posted:Bloodborne would have been better without stats imo. Nah, then people would just play one character forever and ever and everyone’s game experience would be homogenous. Bloodborne works because everyone approaches it differently. I’m excited to see FROM make a game that everyone has to at least start the same way.
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Mar 17, 2019 15:45
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Well, that's sorta what happens in Souls games though? Like, how many people have played STR/DEX sword & board as their first character? Having different weapons and stuff without stats that restrict you from using one over the other would be pretty cool and there's a fair amount of action games that do it. RE4 does it! Instead of stats, upgrades are what limit what you want to be using as the game progresses and enemies get tougher. Scarcity of upgrade materials would be enough IMO.
Azran fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Mar 17, 2019 |
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Mar 17, 2019 16:03
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Bust Rodd posted:Nah, then people would just play one character forever and ever and everyone’s game experience would be homogenous. Bloodborne works because everyone approaches it differently. I’m excited to see FROM make a game that everyone has to at least start the same way. you have different weapons/items/armor/upgrade materials.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:25
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Relin posted:did miyazaki do otogi? otogi sucks Otogi was an Xbox classic and I don't like you
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Mar 17, 2019 16:34
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Bust Rodd posted:Nah, then people would just play one character forever and ever and everyone’s game experience would be homogenous. Bloodborne works because everyone approaches it differently. I’m excited to see FROM make a game that everyone has to at least start the same way. I dream of a bloodsouls game where every level is balanced for a character with the same rough abilities, and new things you find are capabilities rather than strict improvements. It always seems like a design crutch that the player decides their relative strength compared to that of the monsters in a given level. I'd rather it be curated by a game designer intentionally than have to guess an appropriate level to not trivialize the level or frustrate myself with it. It's also unfortunate that I can't just pick up a cool new weapon and immediately start using it effectively - going back to town, checking stat requirements, deciding it's worth upgrade materials, etc is all a pretty big bummer compared to how it'd be if it were "pick up weapon, kick rear end with weapon". I don't think sekiro will be completely free of this stuff but it certainly sounds like a step in the right direction.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:38
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I like my choices having an impact. If I can just use every weapon equally, there’s no reason to pick a style because at any point a new weapon could just be a better option, at which point there’s nothing to get invested in or connect to. We all have our favorite weapons in Bloodborne and unless it’s one of the 3 starters, you had to work to use and equip it, and making that choice gets you deeper into the gameplay. You cannot seriously be comparing a game like Resident Evil 4, an on-rails linear hallway shooting gallery game, to a FROM character action game. Everyone plays RE4 basically the same way every time, you have to do everything in the same order every time, the game doesnt give you enough options to differentiate yourself. Bloodborne asks you to pick something and stick with it, I like that. Sekiro seems more like you are starting a game with a level 10 character that has already focused themselves on Ninjutsu, instead of a fresh lvl 1 guy that can do anything.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:45
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I don't think sekiro will be completely free of this stuff but it certainly sounds like a step in the right direction. What you're describing is normal, or at least it was before the internet complained and everything had to be some weird risk/reward balancing act. If nothing else I just want Sekiro to be another normal game that doesn't need constant balance patching to appease reddit. Something I can drop 20 hours on and replay later for further enjoyment without having to first google "build that does not suck in Sekiro" and read a dozen essays on the subject.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:54
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i never had to read online how to do a "proper" build in any of these games.
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Mar 17, 2019 16:57
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I do cause i have anxiety problems
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Mar 17, 2019 16:58
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“Want to use this weapon? Welp, guess you have to start again and follow this leveling path” Its terrible, choosing between str/dex/arcane only limits your choices during a run, and in the worst way because you have no way of knowing which weapon you’re going to like playing for the first time.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:01
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If you choose arcane, because it sounds dope, you’re loving yourself when you start Bloodborne. Some weapons scale with arcane, but to do arcane damage and actually benefit from it, you need to either get arcane blood gems or elemental (which you would have no reason to believe arcane would benefit), and even then I’m still somewhat confused by arcane and weapon leveling. As far as hunter tools, you don’t start to see decent damage from stuff like the executioners gloves, a call beyond, augur of sbreitas etc. until level 50 and up, and I’ve heard it has an inverse scaling below 50. You don’t even get any arcane stuff until the woods, beats roar, and the hunter’s bone in the workshop, both pretty useless spells, at least without others to supplement them. So yeah I’ll excited they got rid of leveling
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Mar 17, 2019 17:24
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good. magic users should be ended. they are tools of the old one.
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Mar 17, 2019 17:26
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ZZZorcerer posted:“Want to use this weapon? Welp, guess you have to start again and follow this leveling path” But pretty much everybody plays more than once in these games. It’s not artificial replayability because even if you found your favorite weapon and had just guessed right with the stats before you found it, you’d play again. The complaint boils down to being mad about not being min-maxed the first time you play or not really being able to use end game weapons, which has usually just been gimmick or not all that great weapons in this series. Did anyone really get super mad they couldn’t use Grant in DS1 on their first run?
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Mar 17, 2019 18:01
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From what I understand Alien was way too long and that was the main criticism leveled at the game. I don't know about the other two. I mean, obviously I think journalists complaining about things that they don't properly understand happens. But it would happen in every industry and it's really not the problem people make it to be. The real problem lies on how the industry was born, and how it has grown, where success is highly determined by review scores (which are incredibly subjective), and where for years these scores have been so highly inflated that anything below 88 is bad and may screw over devs.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:08
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Bust Rodd posted:Nah, then people would just play one character forever and ever and everyone’s game experience would be homogenous. Bloodborne works because everyone approaches it differently. I’m excited to see FROM make a game that everyone has to at least start the same way. Making choices that shape your character is cool, but stats aren't the only way to do it, and Bloodborne doesn't make great use of its stat system. It mostly just gives you the freedom to create a crappy build. A stats system that gives you a lot of freedom shouldn't have one clearly optimal investment strategy that's as simple as picking one of two damage stats to dump echoes into alongside vitality.
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Mar 17, 2019 18:16
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I’m sorry I’m not sure I follow. Are you saying stats are only good if there are lots of them to choose from? I feel like Bloodborne can be easily done with a Str/Skl/Quality build by most people and then Arcane and BLT are there for when you wanna try something a little different. How many more options should there be?
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Mar 17, 2019 21:31
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All Souls games are meant to be quality for the first run.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:38
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What he's saying is what you're basically saying, there's very few builds in Bloodborne that are generally good all other builds are basically worthless unless you're doing some gimmick build because you're a minmaxing poopsocker that's mastered the game. When everyone's build basically ends up being one of two things, there really isn't much of a point in a stats system.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:38
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That's demonstrably false. Almost every weapon in the game is balanced around two stats. You pick your two and roll with it, or you switch weapons halfway through. If you want Chikage, Bowblade, and evelyn you run skill with saw twins and then switch halfway through.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:42
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s.i.r.e. posted:What he's saying is what you're basically saying, there's very few builds in Bloodborne that are generally good all other builds are basically worthless unless you're doing some gimmick build because you're a minmaxing poopsocker that's mastered the game. When everyone's build basically ends up being one of two things, there really isn't much of a point in a stats system. the point is to allow players to choose between health, stamina or damage when they level up, and to add an element of verisimilitude to their character progression. it wouldnt be an rpg if any character could use any weapon or tool
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Mar 17, 2019 21:57
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Bust Rodd posted:I’m sorry I’m not sure I follow. Are you saying stats are only good if there are lots of them to choose from? If that's the full list of options, then you don't need a big stats system that just lets you steer into obvious dead ends. This could just as well be modeled with an ability tree, without falsely implying that you have a lot of knobs to experiment with. Contrast with say the original Fallout games, which also modeled character attributes as a series of stats, but every stat had a meaningful impact on the gameplay at every level, and each was viable for maxing, even luck.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:07
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Azran posted:Well, that's sorta what happens in Souls games though? Like, how many people have played STR/DEX sword & board as their first character? Having different weapons and stuff without stats that restrict you from using one over the other would be pretty cool and there's a fair amount of action games that do it. RE4 does it! Instead of stats, upgrades are what limit what you want to be using as the game progresses and enemies get tougher. Scarcity of upgrade materials would be enough IMO. I mean the first time you play a Souls game most likely, after that plenty of people don't. My first DS3 character was Faith focused for example. Which wasn't the greatest choice in hindsight since Faith spells were pretty poo poo on release and DS3 is a faster game than 2 so finding time and space to cast was a pain in the rear end. But it was still fun, both despite and even because of it.
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Mar 17, 2019 22:12
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acksplode posted:If that's the full list of options, then you don't need a big stats system that just lets you steer into obvious dead ends. This could just as well be modeled with an ability tree, without falsely implying that you have a lot of knobs to experiment with. Contrast with say the original Fallout games, which also modeled character attributes as a series of stats, but every stat had a meaningful impact on the gameplay at every level, and each was viable for maxing, even luck. theres only six stats in bloodborne and two of them are health/stamina, it would be a very boring skill tree. bloodbornes stats are great. they break down as such: vitality, which is health endurance, which is stamina strength, which increases damage done by big and brutal weapons skill, which increases damage done by fast and vicious weapons bloodtinge, which increases damage done by weapons that rely on the intake or output of blood arcane, which dictates the players ability to make use of bizarre and confusing weapons and tools the stats make sense diagetically and allow the player to build a character they like while also removing the ability to accidentally invest in worthless stats. its good
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Mar 17, 2019 22:27
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Agree with Ghost Dog. You level vitality to 30 and endurance to 20 and pick your two damage stats based on what weapons you want to use
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Mar 17, 2019 23:16
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scary ghost dog posted:the stats make sense diagetically and allow the player to build a character they like while also removing the ability to accidentally invest in worthless stats. its good This would be fine if that was a transparent choice, but it isn't. Damage stats don't have much of an effect until later weapon upgrade tiers, so putting points into vitality early is best. Bloodtinge is my favorite but only has two weapons that matter - one locked behind an optional area that's extremely difficult on a BT run and one in DLC that (unless you cheese it) you're not getting until way later. Betting it all on Arcane with a new character is the path to sadness. That's why I've never gotten the sanctity of builds in souls. If I'm going to do Bloodtinge then I'm going to rush the Chikage. If I want to do a bow-only run I'm going to rush the bow. If I want to do quality I'm going to rush Ludwig's. What I'm really saying with a "build" is my gimmick this run will be using X item (or, in Dark Souls, magic/pyro/hexes/whatever) and at that point who cares about stats. They're just cruft that's meaningless to me and full of traps for a new player.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:23
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Screw stats, once you learn how to build a Souls character it is rather self explanatory and even quite flexible. It's a hurdle for new players, but it's hard to gently caress your character up. The real worst part about Dark Souls' RPG systems has always been that you are locked into using the 1-2 weapons you choose to spend upgrade materials on. There are a ton of weapons with varying movesets and attributes, and 98% of players will only ever use a couple of them. Double that if they do a reroll. If their departure from the RPG mold removes that limitation from this game, I'll be ecstatic.
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Mar 17, 2019 23:54
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Can you respec in Bloodbourne? All the complaining about stats is kinda meaningless in games with respecs. Souls/echos are made meaningful via RPG levels mostly. So gambling them after a death is a bigger deal than losing vendor bucks.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:07
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Gameplay reveal tomorrow and reviews out thursday hmm. I might just preorder but I feel bad preordering new games since I might not end up starting for a few months, I bought DMCV big fan of the series, installed it but have yet to start it... Anyhow I do think this game is going to be safe to preorder, I have faith in Fromsoft 100%, the only problem would be if it runs like poo poo on PC or is poorly optimized but From have been getting better and better with their pc versions.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:15
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Souls should use the equipment design of Monster Hunter.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:24
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I haven’t preordered a game in ten years but I think I’m gonna preorder this, both for practical budgeting money-is-already-spent-so-I-can’t-allocate-it-more-responsibly way and because I legit feel like I won’t regret it Plus I’ve got no job so I’ll be able to hop to poop socking right away, presumably early Friday morning assuming there aren’t any technical problems and without multiplayer I’m expecting less nonsense
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Mar 18, 2019 00:25
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Look Sir Droids posted:Can you respec in Bloodbourne? All the complaining about stats is kinda meaningless in games with respecs. You can't respec.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:34
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I just found something that really got me excited about stuff we might see in the game. Spoilering for possible spoiler hints from Miyazaki I guess. Game Informer: "With all the giant monsters and crazy creatures and stuff like that, are we going to see a mid-game Bloodborne plot twist where everything goes crazy and it’s a totally new game? Miyazaki : Hypothetically speaking, if this was a Bloodborne interview, we wouldn’t go, “Hey, guess what happens in the second half.” But if you can think of the opening of the game as a more traditional Japanese ninja fantasy, then it’s not going to continue along that same exact track the whole way through. I think it’s safe to say that much and I think more would be a spoiler."  idk what happened but my hype levels for this game have gone insane the last few days to the point where I literally dreamed about it.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:35
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i can't recall in 1 but in dark souls 2 and 3 i got the weapon that carried me through the game fairly early on and didn't find weapons i'd want to trade them out for (heide knight and butcher knife to be specific). in bloodborne i started with sawblade but switched to holy blade (i didn't know it was broken i just thought it was the coolest) but that early enough that i had plenty to upgrade it with.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:46
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I can only remember in DS3 i cheesed very early duels before the meta settled and people knew what was good or not by using the painted guardian curved sword. It had the lowest range but had ridiculously fast strikes therefore no stamina cost and inflicted bleed so fast people died before they realised what was happening.
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Mar 18, 2019 00:51
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