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Superman can't be Christ, he's busy being King Arthur. While the robot Batman is driven mad with guilt, real Batman repeatedly attempts to murder him. He brains him with a bottle of acid and takes a broadsword to his chest. Franchescanado posted:There's actually a current DC storyline (Heroes in Crisis) where Batman has created a therapy super computer for heroes and villains to anonymously (as their regular, non-super alter ego, ie, Bruce Wayne) get treatment for their mental health issues. Apropos of nothing, this sounds like a Rick and Morty script.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:03
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Here again, you can see the same misinterpretations at work.    He's specifically referring to vengeance / killing done to prevent future problems. The rule is directed at his child sidekick.  He's specifically referring to vengeance / killing done to prevent future problems. The phrase "you're not a killer" is used instead of more specific language (e.g. "you've never killed anyone"). He's talking about using guns.  1) He's referring to vengeance / killing done to prevent future problems. "I'm not an executioner." The rule is directed at his child sidekick. 2) He's talking about using guns. The rule is directed at his child sidekicks. This is consistent across every version/adaptation.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:04
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's obviously a script typeface, not kanji! He was told that in their country they mean hope
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Mar 26, 2019 15:04
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Franchescanado posted:https://twitter.com/PFTompkins/status/1110334406999175168 I'm kind of surprised.I don't think Paul f Tompkins has been this "rude" to anyone on twitter.And he tweets about Trump a lot. Totally out of character for him, I have watched his special and listened to him in podcasts and it's incredibly strange this vitriol. I don't think he has ever gotten his foot in the puddle of superheroes, same with other people who are showing up to dunk.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:05
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josh04 posted:Superman can't be Christ, he's busy being King Arthur. But King Arthur is also Christ
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Mar 26, 2019 15:05
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Hate to give Mark Millar too much credit, but his Superman: Red Son mini killed the whole "Superman as Christ figure" idea for me.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:05
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Guy A. Person posted:The end of the movie depicts him deciding what to do in the wake of Superman's sacrifice. He hasn't fully been redeemed but he's on the path to redemption. He has been forgiven and accepted by his peers. One cannot be redeemed in an environment in which one has already been made comfortable in the new status quo.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:07
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Nodosaur posted:Still kinda side eying the continued contextualizing of Superman as a Christian symbol when he owes much of his inspiration to Jewish heritage, but that genie was out of the bottle long before Snyder. Christianity owes its inspiration to Jewish heritage. That's what Christianity does.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:07
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josh04 posted:Superman can't be Christ, he's busy being King Arthur. While the robot is driven mad with guilt, Bruce is at the bottom of a hole, and the robot kills himself. Batman is defending himself, yes, but none of those actions kill the duplicant, and he’s faced these things and is fully aware of how durable they are.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here again, you can see the same misinterpretations at work. Interpretations aside, you said there aren't frames where Batman elaborates on his no-kill rule. He does. I found those examples. Sorry they don't fit a specific undefined criteria you're now positing, but I'm not to comb 800+ Batman comics to chase your goal post.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:09
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It's frustrating to an insane degree that Lefty Twitter and Youtube people are lining up to try to dunk on Snyder for some reason, it's beyond disappointing that people I would otherwise like (on some level) are driven to absolute madness by this filmmaker
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Mar 26, 2019 15:10
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Waffles Inc. posted:It's frustrating to an insane degree that Lefty Twitter and Youtube people are lining up to try to dunk on Snyder for some reason, it's beyond disappointing that people I would otherwise like (on some level) are driven to absolute madness by this filmmaker I mean my primary dislike of the director is his unflinching adoration of male gaze 
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Mar 26, 2019 15:11
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean my primary dislike of the director is his unflinching adoration of male gaze Care to elaborate? Because this doesn't track
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Mar 26, 2019 15:12
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Darko posted:Christianity owes its inspiration to Jewish heritage. That's what Christianity does. I’m aware of that. But Christianity isn’t Judaism and from conception, the character of Superman resembled Moses more than Christ.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:12
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More directors need to be like Edward James Olmos and take every opportunity to zoom in on the cock
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Mar 26, 2019 15:13
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Also a big thing is contextualizing Batman's speeches about killing. He's HUGE against not killing...The Joker, because a) the Joker is legitimately insane, combined with b) he's in a constant ideological battle with the Joker about the ability of redemption that goes along with that. He's often obsessed with "fixing" the Joker. He also doesn't kill for vengeance and specific reasons like that, and tries not to get innocent people killed. But when it comes to someone like Darkseid, who aren't insane and just pure evil or people that he thinks he can't redeem, he'll either shoot them (Darkseid) or "not save them" (a lot of villains that were later resurrected, because, comics). And yeah, if you're not human but still sapient, or turned yourself into a blob monster or something, hes even more likely to kill you.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:13
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Waffles Inc. posted:It's frustrating to an insane degree that Lefty Twitter and Youtube people are lining up to try to dunk on Snyder for some reason, it's beyond disappointing that people I would otherwise like (on some level) are driven to absolute madness by this filmmaker I don't think PFT saying "a director making an adaptation of a character fully established before their career even began doesn't gets to tell people only aspects of his adaptation are correct" is a huge dunk. I think it's pretty reasonable. The same criticism PFT is mentioning is also appropriate to Nolan's Batman. Except Nolan isn't publicly telling Batman fans that his Bale Batman is the right/correct/realistic incarnation of the character. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 15:13
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Waffles Inc. posted:Care to elaborate? Because this doesn't track Compare the placement of the camera on Wonder Womam between her film and the films she appears in directed by Snyder
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Mar 26, 2019 15:13
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300 gave birth to an insanely ugly aesthetic co-opted by the military during the surge days and the worst days of the war on terror, and the NRA. Molon labe, Spartan helmets and more 300 inspired aesthetic props can be found in the chud-maga-insane cult of death right wing military. With the right wing , white nationalists resurgent, he has become a proxy.That's my only explanation.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:14
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Franchescanado posted:I don't think PFT saying "a director making an adaptation of a character fully established before their career even began doesn't gets to tell people only aspects of his adaptation are correct" is a huge dunk. I think it's pretty reasonable. That's fair. It still feel super out of character from PFT.The Chapo dudes, or brandy dunking mercylessly is more appropriate but they were just laughing or riffing.PFT basically calling him a moron is weird as hell.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:19
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hump day bitches! posted:That's fair. It still feel super out of character from PFT.The Chapo dudes, or brandy dunking mercylessly is more appropriate but they were just laughing or riffing.PFT basically calling him a moron is weird as hell. Not to get too off-course, but PFT actually talks about his Twitter life on an episode of his podcast Threedom (I think). He says he tries to only post positive stuff or clearly snarky, but sometimes gets sucked into being more mean-spirited than first intended. But I also think he sincerely dislikes Snyder's films, and is incredibly dismissive of his voice as an 'authority' of comic books, so I doubt he really gives a gently caress about pissing off Snyder fans.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:23
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Nodosaur posted:While the robot is driven mad with guilt, Bruce is at the bottom of a hole, and the robot kills himself. Like, I'm not necessarily on board with SMG's "there's no rule" because it's all fiction anyway so even if someone has spelled it out text, well, whatever. But imo what's interesting about that clip is that Batman, because he's not a robot, is totally flexing the rules because the robot's adherence to them is it's weakness. The robot pulls a gun, as if to shoot Batman, but can't and aims instead for the bottles of acid. Batman pauses, realises he has the advantage, and swings one straight at the robot's face. Only the sprinkler saves BatBot.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:23
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Nodosaur posted:I’m aware of that. But Christianity isn’t Judaism and from conception, the character of Superman resembled Moses more than Christ. Ehhhh...that's questionable. Jesus' story stole half of Moses' as is (surviving mass baby killings from kings at birth, both did the wilderness journey before accepting their Messiah-ship, both did water control miracles, both had super tempers when young and beat people (to death in Moses' case) for unfathomable sins to them, etc.) so it's near impossible to remove the two. I get your point entirely, but as America is a more Christian society, the copycat story is more known than what was copied, so it's just going to be an automatic thing, that I don't really blame people for.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:23
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Franchescanado posted:I don't think PFT saying "a director making an adaptation of a character fully established before their career even began doesn't gets to tell people only aspects of his adaptation are correct" is a huge dunk. I think it's pretty reasonable. Filling a diaper over a director not saying something like "IN MY OPINION" to a receptive and friendly audience before espousing what is just their opinion is a pretty outrageous reaction Thinking Snyder is saying that his take is the only correct one is a disingenuous reading of what Snyder is saying. But that said, he's right that the typically accepted Batman narrative amongst nerds is hilariously wrongheaded
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Mar 26, 2019 15:23
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Compare the placement of the camera on Wonder Womam between her film and the films she appears in directed by Snyder He only directed one with her in it, and it doesn't gaze on her much at all; she just looks a bit more godlike. Whedon directed the gazey stuff. Even Sucker Punch, which is about male gaze, tends to go out of its way to avoid it at times.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:26
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Compare the placement of the camera on Wonder Womam between her film and the films she appears in directed by Snyder Any scenes or shots in particular come to mind to do a moviefight with or are you just going from your memory?
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Mar 26, 2019 15:26
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josh04 posted:Like, I'm not necessarily on board with SMG's "there's no rule" because it's all fiction anyway so even if someone has spelled it out text, well, whatever. But imo what's interesting about that clip is that Batman, because he's not a robot, is totally flexing the rules because the robot's adherence to them is it's weakness. The robot pulls a gun, as if to shoot Batman, but can't and aims instead for the bottles of acid. Batman pauses, realises he has the advantage, and swings one straight at the robot's face. Only the sprinkler saves BatBot. You know, you’re right. But I did say that nonhuman characters have been a troubling blind spot in Batman’s portrayal rather early in this discussion. Darko posted:Ehhhh...that's questionable. Jesus' story stole half of Moses' as is (surviving mass baby killings from kings at birth, both did the wilderness journey before accepting their Messiah-ship, both did water control miracles, both had super tempers when young and beat people (to death in Moses' case) for unfathomable sins to them, etc.) so it's near impossible to remove the two. I mean, his creators were called Siegel and Schuster. So much of their early work on Superman plays into the anxieties of Jewish Americans. I don’t think I’m way off base here. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 26, 2019 |
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Mar 26, 2019 15:29
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Man of steel and Batman v superman for sure regale you with plenty of beefcake tho.Its funny the way he gives this lingering shots of MASSIVE sets of abs and arms.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:31
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Waffles Inc. posted:Any scenes or shots in particular come to mind to do a moviefight with or are you just going from your memory? I would have to rent the movie and pause, but I recalled numerous scenes in JL where the scene opened with the camera focused on Wonder Woman in a sexualized perspective. The one that sticks out to mind is a scene of them scaling a cliff that hard centers on her skirt exclusively while framing the other male characters completely. But again, male gaze is not a scene you can point to, its a holistic accounting of the film. I would have to sit down and highlight every instance and qualify it if I wanted to specifically "prove" it. Darko posted:He only directed one with her in it, and it doesn't gaze on her much at all; she just looks a bit more godlike. Whedon directed the gazey stuff. this feels like a deeply dishonest cop out, especially since numerous of the same scenes feature other trademark elements of Synder film-making. Snyder still directed half of that film, and there are visual signifiers of different filmmakers that can be used to determine who filmed a particular scene.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I would have to rent the movie and pause, but I recalled numerous scenes in JL where the scene opened with the camera focused on Wonder Woman in a sexualized perspective. The one that sticks out to mind is a scene of them scaling a cliff that hard centers on her skirt exclusively while framing the other male characters completely. But again, male gaze is not a scene you can point to, its a holistic accounting of the film. I would have to sit down and highlight every instance and qualify it if I wanted to specifically "prove" it. I mean the more direct comparison would be Sucker Punch, and it's nothing like Justice League.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:33
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I would have to sit down and highlight every instance and qualify it if I wanted to specifically "prove" it. Okie doke! Because otherwise you're disparaging Snyder based upon essentially...no evidence at all? Which seems weird? Like you just "think" that he is
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Mar 26, 2019 15:34
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Franchescanado posted:Interpretations aside, you said there aren't frames where Batman elaborates on his no-kill rule. He does. I found those examples. Sorry they don't fit a specific undefined criteria you're now positing, but I'm not to comb 800+ Batman comics to chase your goal post. Those aren't elaborations on the no-kill rule; they aren't about a no-kill rule at all. 
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Mar 26, 2019 15:36
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I mean the more direct comparison would be Sucker Punch, and it's nothing like Justice League. Other than in terms of visual perspective it is deeply similar
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Mar 26, 2019 15:36
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Waffles Inc. posted:Okie doke! Didnt you once back out of an argument by saying its not your job to find sources and now you are calling me out for not immediately showing you sources?
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Mar 26, 2019 15:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:this feels like a deeply dishonest cop out, especially since numerous of the same scenes feature other trademark elements of Synder film-making. Snyder still directed half of that film, and there are visual signifiers of different filmmakers that can be used to determine who filmed a particular scene. It's not a cop out - I can pretty much tell the difference between the two (also,remember that Whedon was involved in editing, so length of shots and take choices were his decision) and only like 15 minutes of the entire movie were shot + edited like Snyder does, with some of the other 15 minutes that feel anything like him not being paced like anything he's done before. I'd reference it, but I refuse to watch that movie again because it hurts my eyes.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:39
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Brief reminder to everyone that last year Whedon insisted his Wonder Woman script was actually good and he didn’t even get a tenth of this poo poo.Franchescanado posted:The criticism is that Snyder shouldn't talk down to people for disliking his interpretation of a character that's been around decades before he was even a filmmaker, for the sake of "realism" in a fantasy story. The bolded was meant to illustrate the following claim, that Batman is a character that bounds back and forth between being for children or adults. Under no circumstances is Snyder insisting that his interpretation of Batman is the “correct” one, but he is illustrating that Batman stories often offer ridiculous explanations as to how a criminal brutalized by Bats is going to live. Rubber bullets, godlike levels of martial arts restraint - my personal favorite is a video game that insists criminals hit by the Batmobile will live because they are safely electrocuted out of the way first. This lines up with a similar comment Snyder made in the promotional tour for BvS, where he outright pointed out that scores of videos on YouTube exist that catalogue the examples of Batman killing people throughout the ages, or even just in the live-action movies. Snyder’s comment isn’t an insistence that all Batmen kill people, it’s specifically a response to the idea that Batman not killing people is a trait that’s core to his character, when it’s been remarkably inconsistent at best. This is the crux of the “fantasy world” comment - it makes much more sense to just admit that Batman attempts to bring societal change through violence than to insist that he merely temporarily rearranges people’s bones. Batman has always been a psychopathic billionaire. The uproar over this depiction of him being a psychopathic billionaire is bizarre, especially with the added flavor of insisting that Snyder is right-wing for depicting this billionaire as a villain.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:39
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Didnt you once back out of an argument by saying its not your job to find sources and now you are calling me out for not immediately showing you sources? Yes, sources to do with specific academic literature and ideology. Readings, etc. What you're saying is, in the movie subforum, that a director heavily utilizes the male gaze when dealing with a character (and apparently in their whole oeuvre in your view?), and then not providing any specific screenshots or visuals or anything. Just like...your word from memory? Like at least google "bvs wonder woman scene" or something for goodness sake Movies are visual! If you're "right", it should be trivially easy for you to find scenes and shots for comparison
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Mar 26, 2019 15:43
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Other than in terms of visual perspective it is deeply similar You'd have to show how - I definitely recall a big criticism of the film was that there were all these constant upskirt shots of the characters and cleavage popping out everywhere, and was surprised when I rewatched it that the film had neither! That was pretty funny.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:44
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Waffles Inc. posted:Yes, sources to do with specific academic literature and ideology. Readings, etc. I did, but that would suggest random images found on GIS speak to framing and positioning in a scene. In order to accurately demonstrate the process there would have to be multiple images of individual scenes shown in a storyboard to show how the framing of the scene progresses. It's not as simple as GIS "wonder woman Snyder" and it's either dishonest or ignorant to suggest it is.
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Mar 26, 2019 15:46
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I did, but that would suggest random images found on GIS speak to framing and positioning in a scene. In order to accurately demonstrate the process there would have to be multiple images of individual scenes shown in a storyboard to show how the framing of the scene progresses. Ok so...do that? Otherwise what's the "point"? You're just saying things otherwise, why should anyone believe you or have their opinion changed?
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Mar 26, 2019 15:47
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