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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The woodchipper one is wild. Batman fumbling for the lever makes it
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Mar 27, 2019 14:19
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McCloud posted:I was gonna post this yesterday, but then my life exploded, so this is a bit too late, but here it is anyways, an incomplete history of batman directly or indirectly killing people in comics, post crisis (as far as I can tell) Lol yessss. ...and kills two more by triggering an avalanche. He tosses a dude in front of a subway and there’s so much blood.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:27
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It's because most people just fall back on TAS where the only death he brings is against robots. Just like in TMNT and other things. All these click-bait critics grew up with that so it's all they know - its gospel. They don't care for the comics. And being pigheaded snobs, if you dare deviate from it you'll get blown apart.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:31
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Lol yessss. Technically he punched the dude who then staggered in front of the subway, you can see batmans hand in a "oh poo poo!" gesture, but lmao at the worlds greatest detective not seeing the train tracks behind the guy
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Mar 27, 2019 14:32
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Nodosaur get your rear end back in here
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Mar 27, 2019 14:33
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McCloud posted:Technically he punched the dude who then staggered in front of the subway, you can see batmans hand in a "oh poo poo!" gesture, but lmao at the worlds greatest detective not seeing the train tracks behind the guy He won't kill the man, but he doesn't have to save him either.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:35
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McCloud posted:I was gonna post this yesterday, but then my life exploded, so this is a bit too late, but here it is anyways, an incomplete history of batman directly or indirectly killing people in comics, post crisis (as far as I can tell) the best one is clearly the one where Robin says "Batman, you killed that guy", and Batman's just like "but did i?" i have to imagine that the next page is just a full-page shot of Robin standing there stunned going "...WHAT?"
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Mar 27, 2019 14:35
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Batman has a "no kill" rule, but he's really bad at following it
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Mar 27, 2019 14:35
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Vintersorg posted:It's because most people just fall back on TAS where the only death he brings is against robots. Well actually... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFNlu5b6PPg&t=105s I mean, he doesn't die, but not for a lack of trying!
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Mar 27, 2019 14:38
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Vintersorg posted:It's because most people just fall back on TAS where the only death he brings is against robots. Just like in TMNT and other things. All these click-bait critics grew up with that so it's all they know - its gospel. They don't care for the comics. And being pigheaded snobs, if you dare deviate from it you'll get blown apart. Batman had to stop him from murdering Darkseid in the cartoon, so they didn't even watch that. These are the exact same people in multiple instances that said "Batman would never retire" in response to Dark Knight Rises. Oh wait, are we talking Batman? Let me think about that one for a bit; they "cheated" way more with him.
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Mar 27, 2019 14:39
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arguably the "no kill" rule is a concept meant to protect Batman as a character from being an explicit endorsement of vigilante murder against poor criminals by rich white elites rather than an implicit endorsement which I think is what leads to the jarring imagery of Snyder as even the clear murders in the comics are always framed to be an act of justifiable "defense" while Snyder's films depicted them as explicit aggression
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Mar 27, 2019 14:42
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Darko posted:These are the exact same people in multiple instances that said "Batman would never retire" in response to Dark Knight Rises. Batman Beyond says hi
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Mar 27, 2019 14:44
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^^^I'm sure it was one of the AICN people that started that "not MYBatman" rant. Only a few people talkbacked "uh, he's retired multiple times in the cartoon and comics; I think he may have even been retired THEN." Their childhood Superman, referenced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhl9EotHOvo
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Mar 27, 2019 14:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:arguably the "no kill" rule is a concept meant to protect Batman as a character from being an explicit endorsement of vigilante murder against poor criminals by rich white elites rather than an implicit endorsement The warehouse scene is explicitly not aggression, as he's trying to save a hostage, per your own definition.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:11
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McCloud posted:The warehouse scene is explicitly not aggression, as he's trying to save a hostage, per your own definition. I dont think we share a definition of aggression and I certainly think you are misrepresenting mine
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Mar 27, 2019 15:14
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The one where he's just killing random dudes in Iran is good too. Batman is a troop.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:19
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Mel Mudkiper posted:arguably the "no kill" rule is a concept meant to protect Batman as a character from being an explicit endorsement of vigilante murder against poor criminals by rich white elites rather than an implicit endorsement The car chase where he smokes the van and shoots at is defense as well since they begin firing at him and launching rockets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPc9bJrr-KA Don't start none won't be none!
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Mar 27, 2019 15:27
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Vintersorg posted:The car chase where he smokes the van and shoots at is defense as well since they begin firing at him and launching rockets. Well yes but he is also instigating the conflict by stealing from a legal delivery of legal cargo He is quite literally robbing a convoy. It would be like declaring shooting a violent bank robber mid-robbery to be an aggressive act
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Mar 27, 2019 15:30
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well yes but he is also instigating the conflict by stealing from a legal delivery of legal cargo "Legal" delivery by pmcs
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Mar 27, 2019 15:33
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Darko posted:I think the big divide is that I, personally, find a Superman that can "save everyone" an inane story so I don't see the criticism about writing one that can't and is shown to have to make human split moment decisions that sometimes end up badly. Even everyone's favorite All Star Superman does not portray Superman as that. One of the more bizarre things about Snyderchat to me is how the general consensus before Man of Steel was that you couldn’t make an interesting Superman story today because he’s a perfect Boy Scout, and then after MoS it was that the movie was poo poo because Superman wasn’t a perfect Boy Scout.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:33
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MacheteZombie posted:"Legal" delivery by pmcs Nothing illegal about hiring contractors to defend precious cargo
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Mar 27, 2019 15:34
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Nothing illegal about hiring contractors to defend precious cargo Do you also defend all the other times this happens in movies with the bad guys transporting their goods?
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Mar 27, 2019 15:35
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Pirate Jet posted:One of the more bizarre things about Snyderchat to me is how the general consensus before Man of Steel was that you couldn’t make an interesting Superman story today because he’s a perfect Boy Scout, and then after MoS it was that the movie was poo poo because Superman wasn’t a perfect Boy Scout. It's good if he's a moral paragon, like Christ, but it's bad if the government and powerful aristocrats hate him, like Christ.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:35
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Pirate Jet posted:One of the more bizarre things about Snyderchat to me is how the general consensus before Man of Steel was that you couldn’t make an interesting Superman story today because he’s a perfect Boy Scout, and then after MoS it was that the movie was poo poo because Superman wasn’t a perfect Boy Scout. Fans were really upset that Superman Returns mainly rescued people from accidents and didn't get into any fistfights.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:35
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Vintersorg posted:Do you also defend all the other times this happens in movies with the bad guys transporting their goods? thats irrelevant to the point
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Mar 27, 2019 15:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:thats irrelevant to the point We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals. Nothing's changed.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:thats irrelevant to the point Not really, Lex Corp runs an illegal side op with sciences and weird poo poo. Batman sniffed it out and is taking it down. It's like taking down a mafia courier stealing gold. But oh no, its so legal - they sell wine!
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Mar 27, 2019 15:44
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MacheteZombie posted:We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals. Nothing's changed. Still irrelevant to the point what do you think I am arguing? Because my point was Synder's vision was unique in that Batman was more consciously aggressive in instigating lethal violence rather than using it defensively, which neither you nor Vintersong's replies speak to
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Mar 27, 2019 15:46
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Vintersorg posted:Not really, Lex Corp runs an illegal side op with sciences and weird poo poo. Batman sniffed it out and is taking it down. what evidence is there that the shipment is illegal? Why would it be illegal to ship a mineral no one knows exists in the first place?
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Mar 27, 2019 15:47
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I dont think we share a definition of aggression and I certainly think you are misrepresenting mine You clearly said the comic murders were "justifiable defense". Both the images of batman taking down helicopters and killing everyone inside was to save hostages, in your definition, justifiable defense. The same situation, circumstances and results applies to the warehouse scene, but you classify that as aggression. So I don't think i'm misrepresenting your position at all, I think you're backpedaling/moving goalposts
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Mar 27, 2019 15:49
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Vintersorg posted:Not really, Lex Corp runs an illegal side op with sciences and weird poo poo. Batman sniffed it out and is taking it down. Rereading Mels point I do agree it's an act of aggression on batman's part. I just dont have a problem with batfleck robbing them.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:49
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MacheteZombie posted:I just dont have a problem with batfleck robbing them. Well yeah thats a separate point though I am just pointing out the people going Batman doesn't kill are missing that the only difference between Snyder and comics is that Snyder abandons the carefully constructed justification for breaking his no kill rule and just does away with the artiface
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Mar 27, 2019 15:51
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As a note, the pmc Lex employs are the same dudes that slaughter the african warlords camp, kidnap Lois and Martha, push a congressional witness in front of a train (directors cut only) and hold Martha hostage. I also think was also heavily implied the kryptonite was smuggled in illegally. Pretend i inserted an edited gif of Batfleck going "They're criminals, Alfred"
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Mar 27, 2019 15:52
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I don't think anybody ever disputed that.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:53
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what evidence is there that the shipment is illegal? He specifically pushes to get an import license from the two senators. The one skeevy politician who actually eats candy out of lexs hand agrees and the one that doesnt.. well.. she gets something else. It's illegal to transport potentially hazardous materials into the country without an import license. Which kryptonite fell under since it's a new element.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:53
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McCloud posted:I also think was also heavily implied the kryptonite was smuggled in illegally which is part of the point why cant Snyder be making an observation that we justify violence internally based on inference rather than facts? Is that not a transgressive perspective?
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Mar 27, 2019 15:53
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't think anybody ever disputed that. so why argue with me about it?
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Mar 27, 2019 15:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Fans were really upset that Superman Returns mainly rescued people from accidents and didn't get into any fistfights. I think that was a side effect of Singer's more muted tones and direction approach not really appealing to them, and them not knowing how to articulate it. I have that issue with practically all of his films - outside of a few moments I like. So they just felt "boring" and figured it was because he wasn't punching anyone or because he was using his powers to spy on his ex. Some of that goes with Snyder's stuff too - anything he does with Fong has a TON of contrast and uses a lot of darks, and Zimmer's scores are very percussive and aggressive which can make people feel the movies are "darker" than they are. But they don't really know how to articulate that because they're only really looking at plot.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:55
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Batman killing the mercenaries protecting Lex's kryptonite is a moot point anyway. Batman's trying to get it so he can murder Superman. At that point in the movie, murder is Batman's explicit goal. To which, Lex orchestrated anyway, so the blood's on Luthor's hands ultimately.
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Mar 27, 2019 15:57
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By that logic, Batman should be cool with all the carnage that Superman caused in his fight with Zoe, since Superman’s ultimate goal was to stop Xod, thus making collateral damage along the way acceptable.
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Mar 27, 2019 16:10
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